Is CAD rendering model railways?

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I was thinking is using CAD rendering railway modelling? I have used Fusion 360 to create parts for laser cutting and 3D printing and also to see if thing look correct before I start to make a start on the real model. But the thought crossed my mind is the CAD renders modelling too as I am using the same thickness of material as I am using in the final model and bringing together components to create an assembly just like we do on a real model.

 

Attached is a render of Aylesbury and also the finished model, also attached is my latest project of the broad gauge Wycombe station where I have learnt more about appearances and textures in fusion and the results are more like like.

 

David

[bmthtrains - David]

I guess this depends on your definition of what ‘modelling’ and ‘models’ actually are - but in the broadest sense of simulating or standing in for something else, I’d say a CAD model is a model of a railway, rather than an example of a ‘model railway’ as a descriptor of a defined hobby.

 

David

[Kylestrome]

CAD is just another tool and requires a certain amount of knowledge, skill and experience – much like any other modelling tool.

 

(yet another) David

[Oldddudders]

Despite not being a David, I am sure that our hobby consists of using whatever method we choose to get the right result, and if people look at that result and nod in approval, the end has simply justified the means. There is no such thing as cheating, in my book. 

[Nearholmer]

To me there seems to be a difference between something which exists in virtual space, and something which exists in real space, and while creating things in either space requires skill, knowledge, diligence etc, a thing doesn’t become what has traditionally been thought of as ‘railway modelling’ until it exists in real space.

 

But, the lines are very blurred now that we have software-controlled physical tools which can translate the virtual to the real with far less human physical involvement than hitherto, and virtual models as in simulations.

 

All a subset of the gradual elision of humanity and cyber-things, I guess.

 

Personally, I avoid anything software-based in the railway modelling hobby context, because involving software makes it feel like work, whereas basic tools, and using a pencil and paper, make it feel like a relaxing refuge from modernity. But, that doesn’t mean I decry, or fail to see the artistry involved in, using software.

[Dagworth]

18 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Personally, I avoid anything software-based in the railway modelling hobby context

He said, writing on a computer on a model railway website...

 

Andi

[Nearholmer]

Sort of fair point, but only up to a very, very tiny point.
 

My iPhone is a means of communication; the way I use it, it neither simulates anything, nor mediates the making of anything. It replaces paper and pen for writing, and a walk to the post box, and/or a traditional phone for voice communication.

 

It would be possible to use my phone as the human-machine interface for simulation, virtual creation, control of physical production etc, but I choose not to.

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Nearholmer

[DGO]

When I was at school I took 'O' Level technical drawing, we used 2H and 4H Pencils, rulers, compasses, set squares, T squares and drawing boards, over time I upgraded from the T Square to a parallel motion drawing board, then onto CAD first in 2D then in 3D, they are just tools, but they do offer huge advantages over earlier techniques, for instance I can create complex assemblies in 3D and make sure everything fits exactly how it is supposed to, Or I can spin a part round to see it from any side at any angle, but going back to the original question, I'd say rendered CAD images are not a model railway, but depending on the setup they might be a simulation of a model railway ..

 

David

[monkeysarefun]

A render being a stationary image I'd say its a model railway in the same way as a painting or sketch of the original is. 

 

Those virtual railway programmes like Trainz or whatever they have now, they are a bit trickier to categorise, I guess all the model railway elements are there in the scenery and rolling stock department, you just don't have to worry about the baseboards or soldering the wires so I dont know. Is flying across the pacific in Microsoft flight simulator actual flying? So many questions. Computers were meant to solve questions but instead have just added a whole heap of new ones "Whats my password again?" "what does this button do?" "Why cant I print this?" It never ends.

Edited February 26, 2022 by monkeysarefun

[hartleymartin]

Perhaps I am behind the times on this. Just started learning a couple of drawing programs and recently had the chance to learn a bit of AutoCAD as part of my trade certificate. I am currently re-doing some of my work on the KA Tramcar with better software so I can get the bits laser-cut.

 

"Virtual" railways such as simulators are a bit grey in my view. They are virtual models of a railway in the sense that they are representations of the real thing. However, I find myself increasingly going off the digital world. I prefer being practical and I use computers to support my real world, rather than escaping into a digital one.

[PenrithBeacon]

In reply to the OP, yes, I think so

[Wheatley]

Do you mean is the Ddigital render itself a model, or is using CAD to design 3D printing or lasercut parts modelling? 

 

The latter definitely, I don't see the difference between building a model from 3d printed, laser cut, injection moulded or etch components.

 

But if you mean the digital file itself then if that's a model then so is a drawing or painting, or the artwork for an etch. The means of execution is different but its still a 2D representation of something rather than something tangible and solid. I'm aware a render allows a 3D view on the screen but so does a video and that isn't a model either, even if it's a video of a model.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Wheatley

[t-b-g]

Using modern technology is still modelling but it is using and developing a very different set of skills.

 

I wouldn't know where to start designing something and 3D printing it but show me a piercing saw and a soldering iron and I am happy. So I can appreciate what people do in those technological fields but I have no interest at all in learning how to do it. If I see an article in a magazine that starts with "I drew it in CAD and 3D printed/etched/laser cut/otherwise manufactured the parts on a machine", I switch off.

 

To me, the difference is that designing something that can then be mass produced by a machine is very much a manufacturing process, whereas more "old school" methods are more "handicraft". That is my version of the hobby. Using my hands, eyes and brain to come up with a way to make something. To me, using things like power tools is as technological as I get. The modern world is rather too full of technology and digital stuff for me and my hobby is about escaping from all that.

 

I would never suggest that people should have to follow the hobby one way or the other, or even use a combination of both but to me, a good handmade model will always be much more interesting and something I would admire compared to one made by a machine.

 

When it comes to components, the lines get a bit blurred. If I buy a commercial component to put on a model, how that was made is irrelevant. Some of the products being made by people like Modelu are just too good to not use! 

[monkeysarefun]

I think the actual CAD process, drawing lines to make up a window, working out how to use the CAD packages tools to  represent some moulding or other is very creative, akin at least to the drawing out of the same model old-school onto card prior to cutting.

 

The difference from then on is that you can distribute  the moulding or window or whatever as many times as needed using tools inside CAD, rather than redrawing it each time, as well as space them accurately, I long ago discovered  my maths is very mistake prone when it comes to dividing a wall into gaps between windows.

 

.  I've built model architecture since  the 70's following Allan Downes each month in the Railway Modeller, and would class myself as an architectural modeller since I have no interest in building an actual  layout, nor the track laying or wiring skills needed  to get one to work  but I love making buildings.

 

As part of the CAD process I've found that the 'render' button with its shadow effects and so on does produce arty images in their own right, but I wouldnt call them a model railway,  though I would call it modelling.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by monkeysarefun

[Dungrange]

On 21/02/2022 at 10:01, David Bigcheeseplant said:

I was thinking is using CAD rendering railway modelling?

 

I'd say yes.  I'd say that a 'model railway' has to be a three dimensional physical model that represents the operation of a railway, so in that regard train simulators are not model railways in my eyes.  However, I'd define 'railway modelling' as any step taken towards creating a physical 'model railway' and using CAD or any software packages that are ultimately used to create that model railway constitutes railway modelling.