Scissors crossings on branch lines?

[melmerby]

On 10/03/2022 at 14:19, Sun VI said:

That's crystal clear, thanks.  The OS sheet I referred to was revised in 1920 and published in 1922, so I assume that the crossing was installed after 1920.  

25" map from the 1947-65 revisions, includes scissors:

(image lost)

Edited April 7, 2022 by melmerby

[Robert Shrives]

Does Smallbrook junction on the IOW count? 

 

Robert 

[Nearholmer]

Scissors-like formations tend to occur on lower status routes where double track splits to form two singles, whether that be a lengthy double section as at Smallbrook, or a short double section at a station, as I think was the case at Tooban Junction. Smallbrook was a bit rare, because it was only a junction in the summer; in winter the double track section reverted to being two parallel single lines.

[melmerby]

I would postulate that the OS map with double track N of Speech House Road without any crossovers is a mistake.(not unheard of!)

Originally the railway was a single line N & S of the station with two platforms as a passing place, with up and down platforms

There was a junction off the single line to the west about ½ mile N of the station leading to a a pit.

If there was no crossover when the track was doubled as far as the pit, it would mean all pit traffic would go through  the LH platform and all passenger traffic the RH platform.

Clearly that was improbable so a crossover was almost certainly installed as part of the doubling.

[adanapress]

I think Long Melford on  the LNER, -  two branches coming together.

[2E Sub Shed]

Cockley Brake Junction -  Junction of the Northampton & Banbury  Railway and the LNWR Buckinghamshire Branch after 1872. 

 

The two single  lines converged via a scissors crossing to form a short double track section before becoming a single line to Banbury.

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

Cockley Brake Junction -  Junction of the Northampton & Banbury  Railway and the LNWR Buckinghamshire Branch after 1872. 

 

The two single  lines converged via a scissors crossing to form a short double track section before becoming a single line to Banbury.

 

I'm not sure that sort of junction (cf. Crianlarich Upper) is really a scissors crossing. It's a full double junction, interlocked and signalled as such (in accordance with Board of Trade requirements), where both the main and branch happen to become single immediately afterwards. A scissors crossing is a facing and trailing crossing superimposed, interlocked and signalled quite differently. 

[Nearholmer]

Which is why I used the term scissors-like, but I'm not sure whether the definition of "scissors" is linked to how the formation is signalled, or to how the p.way is physically constructed. I think its a p.way term, rather than a signalling term, but I'm by no means sure.

 

One reputable on-line glossary that is consulted by professionals only uses the term 'scissors' in connection with 'crossover', which in turn it defines as a connection between two parallel tracks, with no qualification as to purpose or signalling. 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Nearholmer

[JohnR]

On 09/03/2022 at 20:18, HSB said:

It is usually referred to as the Torbay Branch and a lot of other branches were double tracked.

 

Well, as the great Gerry Fiennes said....

 

Quote

In passing, General Managers W.R. never call the line from Newton Abbot to Torbay 'the branch'.

 

[Sun VI]

On 09/03/2022 at 14:03, Happy Hippo said:

Corwen

Hello HH,

I've found the one at Corwen, it came under Corwen East for signalling:  https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gww/S3263.htm

I also had a look at Corwen West.  There's no scissors crossover, but there is a single slip off the branch line leading straight into a double slip, looks interesting to me.

 

[Sun VI]

On 09/03/2022 at 12:40, IanN said:

Elbowend Jct. Some might consider it had two for a time.

Hello IanN,

I think that I've found Elbowend junction here: https://maps.nls.uk/view/82882194 just to the south of Dunfermline.  However, on the map it's labeled as 'Charlestown Junction' - is this the right place?  

[Sun VI]

On 09/03/2022 at 12:51, russ p said:

County school on the Wells branch

Hello RusP,

Oh, that Wells branch, not the Wells in Somerset.  Found it here: https://maps.nls.uk/view/120849152 and also here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_School_railway_station  which includes a clear track diagram.  Thanks.

[Sun VI]

On 09/03/2022 at 13:17, Steven B said:

Bury Interchange.

Afternoon Stephen B,

I've had a quick look but can't find any track diagrams.  Very interesting that there is a scissors crossover on a modern facility - can you point us to any photo's or diagrams?

[jpendle]

44 minutes ago, Sun VI said:

Afternoon Stephen B,

I've had a quick look but can't find any track diagrams.  Very interesting that there is a scissors crossover on a modern facility - can you point us to any photo's or diagrams?

Just look on Google maps it's quite distinct, but it's a tram/light rail line and I'd argue that it's not a branch line.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Sun VI]

On 09/03/2022 at 13:17, HSB said:

Paignton, replaced by a facing crossover a few years ago.

 

Afternoon Howard,

There certainly was a conventional scissors crossover controlled by Paignton North box as shown here: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwe/S911.htm  However, I took a look at Paignton South Box ( https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwe/S912.htm  ) and found that there was, in effect, another feeding the sidings and goods shed on the west of the line.  This was more sprawling and rather more complex as, for one diagonal, it was laid out as trailing right hand turnout off up line to crossover to right hand turnout to siding.  The other diagonal was a double slip on the up through line to crossover to double slip in the goods yard.  The trailing track from the through line double slip went back to the through down line.  The diagram makes it clear, but wouldn't that all make a fascinating model?

Hope to see you soon at ExGOG.

[Neil]

Drws-Y-Nant on the line from Corwen to Dolgellau had a scissors crossing to access the goods siding.

[melmerby]

Longbridge had one at the Main Line (East) end combined with a double slip.

"Not prototypical" some wag will say at an exhibition.

[2E Sub Shed]

Re Cockley Brake Junction - Have located a photo on the web.  An original photo of the point work has been photo-shopped onto a 2018 view of the site.

 

Link to photo of Junction Pointwork

Edited March 14, 2022 by 2E Sub Shed

[IanN]

Hi Sun VI

 

“I think that I've found Elbowend junction here: https://maps.nls.uk/view/82882194 just to the south of Dunfermline.  However, on the map it's labeled as 'Charlestown Junction' - is this the right place? “

 

You’re very close. It’s the next map to the west/left from the one you found.  Charlestown Junction is the junction off the main line. Elbowend Jct is about a mile along the branch and had lines to Netherton Goods and Charlestown Jct at the east end, and the Kincardine branch and Charlestown branch at the west end. If you substitute 82882194 in your link with 82882113 you should find it near the top of the map. 

 

Regards

[keefer]

Link to Elbowend Jn georeferenced map

 

EDIT: just noticed there are two scissors shown - one at the junction itself and another further west on the plain track.

 

BTW, if you select 'georeferenced map' rather than individual map sheets, then you get continuous coverage (subject to the map existing there).

Often, this map may be one of a slightly different date to those available as individual sheets and therefore may give additional detail not present on those before/after.

E.g. separate map sheets of, say 1935 and 1967 but the georef. coverage is from 1950 etc.

Edited March 15, 2022 by keefer

[melmerby]

12 minutes ago, keefer said:

Link to Elbowend Jn georeferenced map

 

EDIT: just noticed there are two scissors shown - one at the junction itself and another further west on the plain track.

 

BTW, if you select 'georeferenced map' rather than individual map sheets, then you get continuous coverage (subject to the map existing there).

Often, this map may be one of a slightly different date to those available as individual sheets and therefore may give additional detail not present on those before/after.

E.g. separate map sheets of, say 1935 and 1967 but the georef. coverage is from 1950 etc.

If you use the Bing satellite overlay instead of ESRI you will normally get a much clearer overhead view.

[Rowsley17D]

There was one on the LNWR Buxton-Ashbourne branch at Parsley Hay where the C&HPR branched off the "main" single line. In the distance of this photo

 

There was also one at Buxton Midland station when the LMS replaced the Midland's interlaced scissors. Photo of the Midland's scissors.

 

[keefer]

Not on a branch but Dundee (Tay Bridge) used to have a scissors leading into the bay platforms. The whole arrangement enabled both bay lines access to/from the Up and Down 'main' lines.

Photo by Neal Elder at https://retrodundee.blogspot.com/2011/03/getting-signal-1970s-80s.html

Photo from Dec.1983.

Present arrangement,looking towards the platforms, with just the separate lines and a crossover.

Rails in the sun (2) by Neale Elder, on Flickr

[Steven B]

20 hours ago, jpendle said:

Just look on Google maps it's quite distinct, but it's a tram/light rail line and I'd argue that it's not a branch line.

 

 

 

Bury Interchange, before Metrolink:

 

Bury 504 by David Flitcroft, on Flickr

 

Certainly heavy rail, and whilst not bucolic certainly a branch-line.

 

It opened in 1980, replacing Bury Bolton Street (now home to the ELR). Converted to Metrolink (with the same basic track-layout) in 1992.

 

Steven B.

[jpendle]

6 minutes ago, Steven B said:

It opened in 1980, replacing Bury Bolton Street (now home to the ELR). Converted to Metrolink (with the same basic track-layout) in 1992.

I hadn't realised that it pre-dated Metrolink.

 

John P