Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[S.A.C Martin]

 

The positioning of the motor bogie has been done with the refurbished units in mind. It makes much more sense when you see the NSE version because there is no guard's section over either bogie in the rebuilt vehicles. Had it been in this end of the refurbished coach it would have been even more visible, I suspect.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

That's fair enough, but do you think the traction tyres were necessary on the Hornby VEP? Re-reading the Model Rail article (which was very good, I hasten to add), it doesn't seem to have come up as a major point of contention.

 

The Bachmann CEP - a similar unit - doesn't have traction tyres, and has been reported as a very good runner.

 

Then, this coupled with the report that the VEP uses non standard axle sizes - what hope for people who want to remove the traction tyres?

[Charlie]

Just a thought, and yes I know it shouldn't be this way, but how hard would it be to replace the bogie motor with the replica chassis?

[S.A.C Martin]

Just a thought, and yes I know it shouldn't be this way, but how hard would it be to replace the bogie motor with the replica chassis?

 

But why would you want to? The RRP of this unit is £160+! £70 for the replica chassis (isn't it?), and its the most expensive four car EMU in Britain by some way.

 

You may as well buy the Southern Pride kit and then buy the Replica chassis instead to power it.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I don't think the Southern Pride kit is available at the moment - it has been listed as not in stock on their website for several years along with the CIG and BIG. The only other options at present are a conversion based on the etched MJT sides or a cut and shut job with Mk1s.

 

If Hornby use the same motor bogie they've used in the ex-Lima models, then it has 2.5mm diameter axles. Alan Gibson do suitable rewheeling kits for EM and P4. I've used the EM kit to rewheel a Hornby class 73 in OO gauge with no problems.

 

As for the solid partitions, I wonder if they originally planned to mould them in clear plastic and then print the partitions, smoking signs etc on?

[frobisher]

Then, this coupled with the report that the VEP uses non standard axle sizes - what hope for people who want to remove the traction tyres?

 

That bit should actually be okay as the motor bogie won't be using the non-standard axles but rather what's under most Limby units - indeed those under the Class 73 should be a direct match. Having one of the original production batches of Limby 73, I'd not be in a rush tto remove the traction tyres from the VEP as my "Royal Alex" sometimes had issues getting itself around R2 corners let alone any tail load...

[Uk_Steve]

Hi i am newbie Steve i have been reading this post for mths with intrest because you could view this

topic via google without being a member anyway today i have joined the forum

 

some great points in the past and with the delays all adds to the mix

 

i spent many of hours on these trains

and at times i was on them 4 to 6 diffrent trains a day, i have wanted to get my hands on the NSE version from

Hornby since early last year when i 1st got wind of this train was being made b4 even buying my layout,

 

as some have pointed out the front ends was really in reality was filthy with flies and cack so maybe the end product

may be ok after all with a bit of weathering? but i do agree it does look odd in the pictures at the moment,

 

it be nice if Hornby or Bachmann did a jaffa cake colours in due course with the newer windows, that would keep me

quite for hours

 

 

 

all the best from Steve

[piranha230]

hi,

does anybody know when the 4-vep will be in the shops?

[Mod4]

Duplicate topic deleted.

 

To be honest the best people to ask would be Hornby themselves via their contact us methods on the their website.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Mod6
Tidying after merge

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

Hornby have reported on their Facebook Page that the BR Blue 4-VEP is now in stock with them:

 

http://www.Hornby.com/shop/locomotives/diesel-and-electric-locomotives/r2946-br-4-car-vep-unit-class-423/

 

The shops should be getting them soon and the NSE version shouldn't be long either

 

Simon

[John M Upton]

Rails of Sheffield also reporting they expect both blue and NSE in by the end of the week!!

[gelboy45]

According to Simon at Hornby:

 

"the fact that there are no windows has to do with the tool design and “the line of draw” when moulding. If this is an issue then I have no concerns in speaking to the engineers and seeing what can be done in the future but please, no promises!!"

 

Gerry

 

s alwaysGerryG

[pete_mcfarlane]

Still confused as to why there are no windows in the corridor partition. Are Hornby effectively saying that their Chinese toolmakers aren't up to doing something that Triang managed 50+ odd years ago?

[stug]

Rails of Sheffield also reporting they expect both blue and NSE in by the end of the week!!

 

Oh boy, on top of the NSE EPB I have just ordered - just pure modelling heaven, but marital and financial meltdown....

[Gwiwer]

Still confused as to why there are no windows in the corridor partition. Are Hornby effectively saying that their Chinese toolmakers aren't up to doing something that Triang managed 50+ odd years ago?

And something that Bachmann managed easily with the Cep. I'd say it's a pretty significant issue myself.

[SRman]

I can live with the lack of corridor windows/doors as these would be fairly easy to add using a razor saw to remove the upper half of the corridor partition and replace with card or plasticard which can be cut out easily "in the flat" on a workbench.

 

I do have serious issues with the front ends on all of the photos I have seen of the models. The cab windows are set too far in and likewise the outer edges of the cable recesses. These will be much more difficult to fix but are the important "face" of the model. If that face doesn't look right it spoils the whole model. The rest of the model looks very good, apart from having a motor in the passenger saloon.

[frobisher]

Still confused as to why there are no windows in the corridor partition. Are Hornby effectively saying that their Chinese toolmakers aren't up to doing something that Triang managed 50+ odd years ago?

 

I think what it says is that the way the Chinese toolmakers did it is not the same as the way the Triang toolmakers did. At a very rough guess, the VEP tooling is more "jelly mould" like (to reduce visible mould lines on seats and the like) whereas the Triang tooling has two halves that meet either side of the partition. The solution probably should have been for the VEP part to be a multi part rather than a single part moulding.

[Ceptic]

Gwiwer, SRman,.. and all other members who have misgivings about the look of the front 'face' and the internal shortcomings.

 

I'm in full agreement with you all, and hoping, against hope, that the publicity shots are of a pre-production model.

 

If Hornby can 'go to town' with their exquisite Pullmans and Maunsells,... why not with a workaday EMU ?

 

l've superimposed some relevent measurements onto this photo of one of the Lymmo 3-CIGs (2nd. generation Mk.1 SReg. EMUs all used the same design)

 

Close-up. Note that the outer front window frame is curved in towards the top, and that the lower frame is approximately level with that of the cab side window.

Measurements taken parallel to the window panel.

 

Regards.

[Gwiwer]

Good work Ceptic.

 

If the Vep were in the Railroad range and priced accordingly I would find its apparent shortcomings a little easier to swallow. I still wouldn't be parting with any money for it however at least until actual models have been sighted and reviewed.

 

The cab windows might prove to be rectangles on the model as well (it's hard to tell from the photos) which would alter the "face" and might be a tad too subtle for the toolmakers even if it was correctly captured by a laser scan.

 

And despite the loose-coupled Pullmans being superbly crafted I still hold reservations for the Brighton Belle as it requires an internal motor somewhere, it requires couplers which don't drag the thing off (a problem with some loose-coupled Pullmans but allegedly now resolved) and at the listed price it needs to be not just spot-on but shiny with it.

 

Fingers crossed. Judgement reserved until models sighted.

[Pugsley]

Thanks for the images and dimensions Cepic, they'll some in handy for altering mine when I get round to getting one. I'm wondering whether it might be easier to chop off the Hornby ends and graft on the MJT cast ends, rather than modifying what's there. Although, if that nice Mr Hanson can be persuaded to do some etches....

 

On the plus side, perhaps the windows will ensure a trip to the bargain bin quicker than might have been the case otherwise

[lapford34102]

Hi,

I see that The Signal Box, amongst others, are now listing the blue one as in stock

 

http://www.thesignalbox.co.uk/index_new.php?pg=3&p_cat_id=43&prod_id=10792

 

Stu

[gc4946]

Hornby's Facebook page (updated 02.59 yesterday) stated "the NSE version is due at the end of the month"

[zarniwhoop]

Thanks to lapford34102 for that link - I've got one on order locally, but I figured it was worth making a trip for another one - the car needs to be run-in. Now that I've stopped cursing my TomTom satnav (it insisted on dumping me approximately where 382 High St *Chatham* would be, if it existed) instead of at the Chatham end of *Rochester* High St, I'll offer some initial comments.

 

So far, I've only run it on the 4' straight of my "test plank" (my main test track is out of use at the moment) so only a few inches in each direction, with some revving into the sky boards at the ends.

 

1. The cab windows look correct to me. I think I'll be able to live with the appearance of the ends after they have been weathered.

 

2. The couplings *can* be joined, but it seems to need two hands to keep both central, and there are no obvious points of reference when doing this. For the driving trailers, it is very easy to get them coupled at a wide spacing, with no electrical contact. It is *considerably* harder to get an electrical contact, and all too easy to get electrical contact but a physical connection that soon comes apart. The second of my driving trailers took about 10 minutes to connect, the first was easier. Much as I currently dislike interior illumination, it helps in checking if there is a connection and the colour seems ok - the area with the motor bogie looks odd, of course.

 

3. The driving trailers are "handed" electrically, at least mine are. One of the reviews implied there is a red headcode light at one end. On mine, there seem to be both white and red in each, BUT on at least one of my DTCs they only work correctly when it is at one end of the unit - if fitted at the other end, the red comes on when that end is leading, and I'm not sure if the white comes on or not. To be clear, when fitted at the correct ends (found by guesswork), the correct colour is shown in each direction.

 

4. Not sure if the trailer second is 'handed' or not - both its connectors look similar (and very different from the connectors on the inner ends of the DTCs), and to start with I couldn't connect either end to the MBS. After reversing it a couple of times, I managed to connect it and the interior lights were working.

 

No pics for the moment, too short of time.

 

ĸen

[Trains4U]

Well, my father will kill me if he sees what I've just done to a new £140 4-VEP, that I haven't paid for (yet)

 

But this is the result of 25 mins with a hacksaw blade (A razor saw would have been better)

 

I just need to touch up the scratches on the roofline and weather the cab recesses, door gangway and roofline.

 

It makes the world of difference, the LEDs are still in the right places, but I shouldn't have to do this to a new model really...

 

 

Spot the difference?

 

(Sorry for the poor quality pics, its a bit late to be getting all my camera kit out)

Edited September 8, 2011 by Trains4U

[kintbury jon]

Blimey, after hoping someone would post a picture of their model, I wasn't expecting this! Your modification does look good, but as you say, you shouldn't have needed to do it.

 

I'll still get an NSE one though!

[S.A.C Martin]

Nice modification Gareth. Is the door not a separate piece then?