Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[Stevelewis]

I think that there remains a little uncertainty about the quality of the running of the model, despite the improvements listed by the retailers. Not a bad price and i suspect that there will be some takers, but i also think that the price has further to fall as Rails (and others) wish to shift their stock

 

I agree! If the price were to drop substantially it would perhaps be an option to re power the 4 VEP.

 

A friend of mine is considering checking out the Bachmann MLV chassis when it becomes available and if suitable using that chassis in the 4 VEP and then using the redundant VEP chassis in the MLV .

 

I am not so sure about this but I will report if anything materialises!!

[Gwiwer]

No VEP is coming here until it is retooled to be a far more accurate representation. I'm sorry Mr. Kohler but a price inducement doesn't cover the simple and harsh facts that this model should never have had solid partitions, ought arguably to have had a better power unit and has required some modest workbench alterations to look the part. I'm always willing to accept compromise in mass-produced models but this would be a compromise much too far for my liking.

[SRman]

While mostly agreeing with gwiwer, I sold out and bought myself a blue VEP for less than 100 pounds. I have compromised but am still wondering if I did the right thing: the solid partitions I can cope with and modify but it's the 'face' of the unit that is hardest to correct yet is the most visible of the errors.

[Trevellan]

Am I right in thinking that the 4TC is in effect an unpowered VEP and this is therefore an opportunity to buy for people who do not want to do third rail?

 

A 4TC is far closer in nature to an unpowered 4CIG.

[andyman7]

SImon Kohler confirmed to me that when the blue-grey VEP is delivered, the revised DTC internal partitions will be made available as spares to correct the earlier issues. Personally, the 'face' of the VEP, whilst not 100%, doesn't offend me enough so as not to have the model - and I knew the prototypes very well. But then, I also knew/know the 86s very well and can live with the Heljan model - whereas the 'peaked' cab line of their Western really does put me off that model. I guess one's tolerance of these things is subjective, although I can understand the frustratio at not getting it 'right' as there should ultimately be no impact on the cost either to the manufacturere or the supplier - it just means getting the 3D CAD/CAM image right

[SRman]

The funny thing is, andyman, I was quite happy to buy and modify a Heljan Western - there is sufficient 'meat' on the cab roofs to allow a simple file-down job to produce a far more acceptable profile. The mods needed to fix the VEP front end have been detailed in this topic already so I won't go through them all again. I will be availing myself of those replacement interiors though!

[wombatofludham]

All the talk about variable running, I wonder if the answer is to try and model 8001, the 8-VAB lash-up which had three motor coaches? Hopefully you'd manage to get some movement with three motor units!

[kintbury jon]

I wouldn't mind a second NSE one. I had hoped that after all the slating the model had got the prices would start falling but it doesn't look like they have.

[zarniwhoop]

All the talk about variable running, I wonder if the answer is to try and model 8001, the 8-VAB lash-up which had three motor coaches? Hopefully you'd manage to get some movement with three motor units!

 

Yeah, but getting them coupled in the right formation with the supplied couplings will be *interesting*. I think you can probably knock-up the RB from the Bachmann RU (not sure how / if it would actually match the body profile of the VEP), but if you get into that area then you are probably leaving ready-to-run models far behind 8)

 

ĸen

[SRman]

Yeah, but getting them coupled in the right formation with the supplied couplings will be *interesting*. 8)

 

ĸen

 

That's a good point. The three car section would be easy enough but the five car one with one MBS reversed would involve a bit of jiggery-pokery!

[Gwiwer]

The 5-car section ran without the 3-car on a few occasions. I wasn't sure whether I could "cop" the unit the first time I saw 8001 at Southampton as it was running 5Vab+3TC+4Vep!!! On another occasion the 5-car portion was reported to have reached Waterloo coupled to a Vep i.e. 9 cars instead of the booked 8 only to have another Vep attempt to couple up for the return working. 13 car trains are not unknown but the report suggested it caused some puzzled looks among staff trying to figure out why it wouldn't fit into the platform.

 

There were restrictions on using 8001 with other powered units as it had three motor coaches which is the normal total for a 12-car train. However so long as it wasn't coupled to a Rep or two 2-car units the CRI of 16 would not have been exceeded and it certainly did run with other Veps at times and with all four motor coaches powering to the best of my knowledge.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Gwiwer

[Ron Solly]

Having read a lot of this thread, I often wonder why UK models in some diesel outlines, go for traction tyres?

 

I had in the past, a Lifelike Proto Budd railcar that had a body mounted motor with a cardan shaft to the gear tower on the bogie, flywheel fitted, pick up on all 4 axles, no tyres & it pulled trains of at least 5 long without any problems - due I think to a decent motor & weight.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Ron Solly

[Budgie]

I expect my class 47 diesels to pull 15 coaches without any problems. With the 4-VEP, as long as the motor coach will handle the set I am satisfied.

[Stevelewis]

Having read a lot of this thread, I often wonder why UK models in some diesel outlines, go for traction tyres?

 

I had in the past, a Lifelike Proto Budd railcar that had a body mounted motor with a cardan shaft to the gear tower on the bogie, flywheel fitted, pick up on all 4 axles, no tyres & it pulled trains of at least 5 long without any problems - due I think to a decent motor & weight.

 

The LL Proto configuration is the same as the Bachmann 4-CEP, 2 EPB and the soon to be available MLV and also the Bachmann Diesel multiple units., These units will also haul much more than the 'normal, train.

[Stevelewis]

I expect my class 47 diesels to pull 15 coaches without any problems. With the 4-VEP, as long as the motor coach will handle the set I am satisfied.

 

During the short time I had a 4-VEP in my possesion (it was returned as not fit for purpose!) I found that it was incapable of moving its 4 cars up a 1 in 25 on a 36" radius incline it would just about manage 3 cars!. My Bachmann 4 CEPs will ascend the gradient with very little slowing and when tested would haul an additional 2 Mk1 coaches up the incline as well.

[frobisher]

To be fair, Hornby have definately learnt a lesson or two from the 4VEP. The Brighton Belle whilst having nominally the same motor bogie, has no traction tyres and manages the 5 coach rake quite happily due to being weighted properly (and not having inside bearings on the unpowered bogies).

[Legend]

Shame they used us as testers!

[Stevelewis]

To be fair, Hornby have definately learnt a lesson or two from the 4VEP. The Brighton Belle whilst having nominally the same motor bogie, has no traction tyres and manages the 5 coach rake quite happily due to being weighted properly (and not having inside bearings on the unpowered bogies).

 

The Belle has its problems though, I have already had to 'attend' to 2 of them due to failures in use, I have reported these earlier but to re-cap the fault occurs in the wiring to the power bogie, there are 4 very thin wires each of which is soldered to connectors on the power bogie, the joints are tiny , the problems occured due to failure of these joints!

It is also worth remembering that if the nescessity arises to 'drop' the power bogie from the chassis for example to remove the capacitor, be careful as the bogie can drop and strain the above mentioned soldered joints.

 

When working on the Belle it is interesting to compare the difference between the techniques used in manufacture of the 2 main EMU manufacturers ( I know to whom I would put my money on!!)

Edited July 15, 2012 by Stevelewis

[Stevelewis]

Rails are offering the BLUE DCC READY version for £99.95 now!

[The Evil Bus Driver]

Shame they can't make an overlay to correct the cab end gangway, possibly as part of a corridor moulding, as that is removable. At least then it would look better. I'd prefer to have the compartments moulded in clear plastic so i could get flush glazed partitions by painting them that weird greyish blue that I remember them being (although I could be wrong). Does anyone have any interior pictures of any of the preserved examples?

Edited August 6, 2012 by The Evil Bus Driver

[47606odin]

Regarding the front, people have mentioned that the gangway end is modelled in the extended position. I worked on these units for years and the gangway end was not adjustable. If coupled to non buffing plate stock with buckeyes then the buffers were extended and saddles fitted as per loco hauled stock.

[Gwiwer]

I think the allusion is to "extended" rather than "compressed" as these gangways compressed slightly when in contact with another. This has to be the case to allow flexibility on curves and to maintain a continuous closed connection. As such having the gangway "extended" is actually correct. The problem is that is appears to be extended too far.

[hiho33063]

I have 2 Hornby NSE veps both climb hills with no problem, the problem seems to be that the dcc fitted ones have there traction tyres one on each axle diagonally opposite it each other (both of mine are DDC fitted ones,howes sound chip in one gaugemaster chip in the other) where as the non fitted ones seem to have both tyres on one axle this doesnt allow when going round corners the inner or outter wheel to slip as one wheel will always try to turn faster than the other on a curve. when you have both tyres on the same axle it try's to grip both side this plus the fact that the other powered axle is just spinning giving very little traction causes a reduction in speed in the curves or no chance in going up a hill. This also causes the tyres to wear out quicker. I hope this helps anyone with one or is thinking of getting one and sorry if i am repeating what someone else has said already

[SRman]

Those are interesting thoughts, hiho, but on further reflection, the axles are geared together, so one or other tyred wheel will still have to slip a little on curves. The best arrangement for the tyred wheels would therefore be to have them on the same side ... this would then be to the detriment of the electrical pickup, though.

[gelboy45]

Is it too impertinant and impolite to enquire as to whether there is any news regarding the promised corrected Vep and/or the replacement interiors?

 

OO passengers need to know!

 

Gerry ;O)))