bennyboy Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Exactly! It started after the war with East Germany, then Japan, then Hong Kong, then Korea and Taiwan. What do we do when we run out of countries? Perhaps we will find some aliens on another planet to enslave to satisfy our greed for cheap stuff, or maybe, just maybe, we will have to make it ourselves. What, you did what to the British manufacturing industry? Oh dear.... And we will feed these aliens on cat food? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 No, just cats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bayford Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 No, just cats. and by doing that you reduce the number of accidents that your cats cause on your layout so they dont break stuff witch saves you more money:D:P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 17, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2010 Ressurecting the topic of the rising costs of RTR, etc., this makes interesting reading. China toy crisis It seems that short-termism will do for us as it has done for other British industries. Go somewhere cheaper and close your own facilities, then the locals will put the price up and hold you to ransome because there's no competion. Charles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hmm, Serves us all right?..... John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Yep. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Indian production? That should make for some interesting wiring...? Dave. As someone who works with Indians - they nice people. But such a bunch of cowboys Pity help us all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 The stuff made in India for the Australian market was a complete and utter failure. You worried about how they went car making in years gone by, well the model trainmarket was worse...if that were possible. Rough finish, things didn't run properly. Quality control, is NOT something the Indians believe in. Sorry to disillusion you guys but... Khris so true.! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 17, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2010 Ressurecting the topic of the rising costs of RTR, etc., this makes interesting reading. China toy crisis It seems that short-termism will do for us as it has done for other British industries. Go somewhere cheaper and close your own facilities, then the locals will put the price up and hold you to ransome because there's no competion. Charles Strangely it doesn't reflect what some of the Chinese industry experts are saying and what has actually been happening over the past year. Quite a number of Chinese toy factories have closed down during the past year, for a variety of reasons but in quite a few cases because of their inability to get goods into the market at the prices being demanded by the' Western nations' importers/retailers. In other words the middle men have not been prepared to carry a hit arising from devaluation of their own currency and the demand for higher standards imposed by their own governments. And no doubt the impact of that has been as great, or probably greater than the factors reported by the BBC. The model railway area has been hit by financial problems and subsequent changes for one of the major manufacturers (as is already well known) plus other changes including slow investment. But what has to be recognised is that some Chinese manufacturers will vanish if they can't sell model railway items into Western markets - hence Chinese Govt resistance to US pressure for currency revaluation (for all sorts of manufacturers, not just model railways). All of this makes the situation far more complex than that painted by the BBC and that report ignores the extent to which the manufacturers are relying on us to buy their output. Finally UK retail prices may well continue to rise but a lot of that increase can be laid at the door of past (UK) govt mismanagement of the UK economy which has led to a severe (20%) reduction in the international value of our currency. I think stuff will continue to come from China for as long as we are prepared to buy it but supplies might well be erratic for numerous reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Thats a very good point that you make in your final paragraph! Whilst chinese production costs will rise/fall, international trading is still (for now at least!) in USD $ and that has changed from being $2/£1 to $1.50/£1, until the GBP picks up we'll be paying more. But its not like we've got it tough though, we've still got enough for non-essentials! m0rris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I find it rather ironic that the whel has turned almost full circle. When McGregor, I hope that is the correct spelling, took over the UK steel industry his first spech was to spell out the serious position that the indusrtry was in. Put very simply for every worker in the UK earning say £2 per hour there were at least 100 in China earning 10p. We had to be competitive and produce steel to sell at a price the market was prepared to pay or go under. I can understand the reluctance of the chinese to devalue their currency as a quick way to solve the problem. Look where it got us. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I'n not sure that would actually happen, drinking more beer normally has the opposite effect on my feet ... ...and I had to see a Chinese locum Doctor.... after a particularly heavy session trying to save the economy Jol's way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I recently read somewher that president Obama met his Chinese counterpart he asked him what was his greatest worry. The answer came "Finding work for an extra twenty five million people every year". Imagine an extra half the population of England coming onto the job market this year. Same again next year, and so on. It's difficult to begin to imagine the problems of India and China in employment terms. That is why I doubt there will be a sudden upsurge in average incomes in those countries, there will always be somebody else willing to do your job for less. An ex colleague of mine goes to India and China regularly to check production of components for the motor industry. In one Indian factory they have a problem recruiting a stable workforce. The factory pays what we would consider to be pitiful wages, but to the locals it is excellent pay. So much so that they have trouble getting the workers to realise that they will get the same pay every week if they keep turning up. When new starters received their first pay packet they usually have so much cash compared to what they are used to that they can afford to take a week off. It's a different world out there, and we have to learn to stop putting Western values on everything. There are some areas where the locals really do know best. Geoff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 An ex colleague of mine goes to India and China regularly to check production of components for the motor industry. In one Indian factory they have a problem recruiting a stable workforce. The factory pays what we would consider to be pitiful wages, but to the locals it is excellent pay. So much so that they have trouble getting the workers to realise that they will get the same pay every week if they keep turning up. When new starters received their first pay packet they usually have so much cash compared to what they are used to that they can afford to take a week off. I hope this doesnt take the thread too far off course, but, the above piece reminds me of an old comparison between western vs third world workers - in the third world many will go to work to buy something (eg bike, small generator, the basics) and once the have earned enough for the desired item, they'll leave their jobswhereas we, obviously remain in the same workplace for comparatively long periods of time! m0rris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 It's a little odd from a Western standpoint to comprehend such an approach, but if it works for them, who are we to judge? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 It's a little odd from a Western standpoint to comprehend such an approach, but if it works for them, who are we to judge? Dave. Exactly, if it gets them what they need its fine, its also nice to know that there are people with entirely different attitudes to money out there as well! m0rris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CullingworthGNR Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 There seems to be an agreement that Britain's government has somehow been in the wrong to let our manufacturing industry 'die'. Well, it isn't what it used to be, but in some parts of the country manufacturing still accounts for 25% of total employment. It's still big business in the UK, and we have world-leading aircraft and metal manufacturing industries. The fact is, we have driven some manufacturers out of the country by demanding ever-lower prices. Just look at the growth of cheap flights, Aldi and Lidl supermarkets, and the explosion of Greggs outlets for examples of bargain-basement products across all kinds of markets. The mass market refuses to over-pay for anything these days. We, as a society, can hardly turn round now and say, 'we want our manufacturing industry back!' because we were the ones that drove it away. It is also daft to say 'well I won't pay the prices if Chinese labour costs go up' because if you want the products, you will just have to pay what it costs to make and sell a model locomotive. People seem to think they have a divine right to have things that they simply can't afford - witness the growth of consumer credit that ultimately ended in recession, and the bizarre rules surrounding housing benefit that mean poor people can expect to live in expensive houses! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Very very very true, and I suppose we are all guilty of it, whilst we complained about the loss of manufacturing we were causing it ourselves. In the mean time... at the rate the euro is going the cheap days might be reappearing in strange way , I forgot to pay for something I bought on sunday and found that I have saved a couple of pounds by accident! m0rris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 To be fair on Aldi, Tom, most of their food is UK sourced, apart from the specifically German stuff and some imported fruit and veg. You're dead right about the aero industry though, when you think of the proportion of aircraft in the world that have Rolls-Royce engines and Martin Baker safety equipment. Still pretty much the world's benchmark there! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Others are starting to note the increased price of Chinese models, this link takes you to the Austrains site in Australia. Then click on the link to the newsletter at the top of the page: http://www.austrains.com.au/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcadian Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I have received my First Newsletter of 2011 from EFE today. Bad news - Frank Joyce reminds us that Employment Law in South China is raising the minimum wage by 18.2%. So the labour costs element in all of our China-manufactured models is increasing by almost one fifth. I'm not saying that the workers don't deserve it - they do deserve a civilised standard of living rather than subsistance levels, but this may go part way to explain the price increases we've commented on elsewhere - so far mainly about Hornby 2011. But this may well be just because Hornby have already made their announcements, Bachmann are not far off now! Seat belts fastened, chaps! Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Harley Davidson (my summer hobby) have brought back some of their apparel manufacturing to the US claiming that the quality coming out of China is still not what they want and (probably the real reason), the cost of manufacturing AND SHIPPING has gone up so much that there is no longer a competitive edge. Fortunately there is still a skill source capable of doing the job (although they are probably immigrants). I suspect this may start to happen in other areas - like RM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2011 I have received my First Newsletter of 2011 from EFE today. Bad news - Frank Joyce reminds us that Employment Law in South China is raising the minimum wage by 18.2%. So the labour costs element in all of our China-manufactured models is increasing by almost one fifth. I'm not saying that the workers don't deserve it - they do deserve a civilised standard of living rather than subsistance levels, but this may go part way to explain the price increases we've commented on elsewhere - so far mainly about Hornby 2011. But this may well be just because Hornby have already made their announcements, Bachmann are not far off now! Seat belts fastened, chaps! Richard I think you will find that Bachmann have already amended some of their prices for 2011 (unless they are going to put certain steam locos up above £150 - £160 for non DCC fitted versions?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcadian Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think you will find that Bachmann have already amended some of their prices for 2011 (unless they are going to put certain steam locos up above £150 - £160 for non DCC fitted versions?) Eek! I hadn't looked at the Bachmann Products page recently, slightly smugly feeling that I don't need any new locos for now. Having seen their prices for their existing range ( which does include items that are probably scheduled for re-release, repeat production run, etc), in a way I hope I don't find much of interest when their 2011/12 programme is announced! Perhaps anyone interested iin getting 2-EPBs, additional 4-CEPs, or other items should take advantage of the pre-release prices from our favourite box shifters! The cost of using the credit card when an attractive offer is spotted could well be cheaper than paying the post-release price. As has been said on another thread in 'MM&M', we are not obliged to keep on restocking (overstocking??) our railways with brand-new RTR locos, fortunately! Will self-control overcome self-indulgence? At these price levels, possibly! Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 An interesting debate. It was always inevitable the some production would be moved from China to other countries and not just due to the rise in the Yuan. The cost of labour in China will rise a little, but will not have a huge impact. My experience of China (I worked for a UK company that had products manufactured in China ) was the control of quality due to frequent changes in labour. Generally speaking, it appeared that female workers would come from the cities in the west of China moving to eastern China (Bejing, Shanghai, etc) where they would stay for 6 months and then move home, get married and not return to work. We would spend quite considerable time training, quality inspection and then re-training due to change in staff. Also, there appeared to be a tendancy for materials etc being changed - remember the problems with the paint applied to childrens toys being changed to a much cheaper and 'lead-based' paint...... I thought this book was very interesting.... "The Chinese. A great bunch o' lads." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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