BR Air-piped brake vans TOPS era

[Crepello]

Can anyone inform me with which services (and with which wagons) the CAR brake vans would have been used.

TIA.

[nigb55009]

CAR brake vans were used with dangerous goods services, such as hydrocyanic acid and liquids or gases under pressure. They could also be used on trains were lengthy propelling moves were

necessary. Fiddlers Ferry MGR trains from Bickershaw, Parkside, Bold and Sutton Manor collieries all had CAR on the rear for propelling down to Arpley Junction from Walton Old Junction. The same applied to MGR trains from the Cumbrian Coast line.

[russ p]

They were on the Redmire trains for a propelling move at Northallerton and closing the gates on the branch 

[Rivercider]

A CAR was also used on the MGR trains to and from Denby for the traincrew who had some gated crossings to open and close.

 

A brake van was originally required at the rear of nuclear flask trains, though this is no longer a requirement.

 

On Speedlink services there were a few regular traffic flows that required a brake van at the rear of the train, this included traffic from the continent to one of the private sidings in Barry Docks, which passed via Dover - Willesden then 6V88 to Severn Tunnel Junction, then to Barry. Also brake van required on trains in the return direction. The tanks did not pass every day, perhaps once a week in each direction, if there was no tank on the train then a brake van was not conveyed,

 

Edit - the Bristol Temple Meads station pilots always ran with a brake van attached, and once air braked parcels stock was introduced then a CAR brake van was provided to work with the one remaining parcels pilot loco.

cheers

Edited June 4, 2022 by Rivercider
Additional info

[nigb55009]

The Lindsey to Ashton in Makerfield (Kelbits) tanks had a CAR on the rear for the propelling move from the Haydock branch into the terminal. It was quite a ride, the train was powered, it that`s the right word, by a class 31. Because of the steep gradients on the way into the terminal, the driver had to use full power. Ther was a farm crossing about half way along and then a sharp rise towards the, hopefully, empty siding. The crew had radios to help, but most guards were on the running boards ready for a quick exit. the sidings were only a little bit longer than the train, which was made up of eleven TTAs and CAR. The whole line was like a big dipper. If it was raining it made things even more interesting.

[Rivercider]

Also as single cabbed locos were not permitted to run D.O.O a brake van had to be provided for the guard and/or travelling shunter when working main line freight or trip workings. If there was air braked traffic to be conveyed then a CAR would be used.

The Exeter area local trip pilot was a class 08 duty and by the mid 1980s always took a CAR along.

Here 08792 is working from Exeter Riverside Yard to Exeter City Basin with three TTAs of bitumen from (I think) Ellesmere Port and a CAR on the rear. Exeter Middle Signal Box had been taken out of use by the date of this photo. 9/7/85,

 

cheers

[Covkid]

In the West Mids we had chlorine traffic from Ellesmere Port which was serviced via Arpley.  The discharge traffic was sent on 6F86 Willesden - Arpley but I am struggling to remember the loaded service.  May have been 6A73 or 7A71 but cannot remember. 

 

This traffic, mostly in fours had barrier vans surrounding the tanks then a CAR on the rear. 

In addition to the chlorine we also sent methanol from ICI Wilton on the same trip target 48, aswell as occasional phosphorous - always with copious barrier length.

 

Around the West Mids we occasionally had to use piped brakevans with single cabbed locos like 08s and 20s. Blowich, C

Coleshill, Wednesbury and Bilston.  You could do with researching the excellent articles by David Hayes in the Traction magazine. He has progressively covered most of the West Midlands workings in the 1980s and 1990s.

An excellent piccie by Andy Williams of 20097 trundling up the ex GWR mainline with scrap empties for Bilston

www.BescotPlus.co.uk/shunters -     20097 at Moxley

 

While we are talking about brakevans, up until the mid 1980s, even if a train was fully fitted, if hauled by 2x20 it still needed a brakevan, This was because of a manning agreement and the class 20 loco cab. If the guard observed a problem with the train following them - from the rear cab, they needed to use an emergency brake valve (setter) but class 20s didn't have this.  ASLEF would not countenance a guard touching any of the drivers controls because up until 1988 guards were not in the footplate line of promotion, therefore BR had to fit all class 20s with setters.  Up until then guards would have to be provided with a brakevan. 

 

.       

[hmrspaul]

On 04/06/2022 at 12:34, russ p said:

They were on the Redmire trains for a propelling move at Northallerton and closing the gates on the branch 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakediag507/e2eb62f47

 

Paul

[Wickham Green too]

On 04/06/2022 at 12:59, Rivercider said:

..... the Bristol Temple Meads station pilots always ran with .... a CAR brake van was provided to work with the one remaining parcels pilot loco.

 

Not sure whether this is and InterCity working or a mail train !!?!

[LNERGE]

Two were kept at March for the Wisbang -Deanside. A friend of mine has one of them. I’ll have to check but another friend may have the other. 
 

Edit to add.. yes the last two at March are still about. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by LNERGE
Add photo

[Steven B]

On 04/06/2022 at 13:35, nigb55009 said:

The Lindsey to Ashton in Makerfield (Kelbits) tanks had a CAR on the rear for the propelling move from the Haydock branch into the terminal. It was quite a ride, the train was powered, it that`s the right word, by a class 31.

 

The Lindsey/Ashton train (7E34/7M25) is interesting as the brake van often ran with the empties - often behind the loco rather than at the end of the train:

Afternoon Total Tanks At Mytholmroyd (Michael McNicholas) by Neil Harvey 156, on Flickr

 

It wasn't uncommon to have brake vans on both ends of trains carrying hazardous goods as it removed the need to shunt the van when the train reversed or because shunting space at the terminal was restricted. The Associated Octel trains to Amlwch are one such example.

 

Many brake vans were transferred to the engineers for staff accommodation - there are three mid-way along this train for example:

Dutch Departmental At Mytholmroyd (Michael McNicholas) by Neil Harvey 156, on Flickr

 

Steven B.

[nigb55009]

When the "Kelbits" first started running Springs Branch crews would relieve Healey Mills men at Manchester Victoria. The train was routed via St Helens Junction, Sutton Oak and St Helens Central, then down to Ince Moss Junction and round to Bamfurlong Junction to head south along the WCML as far as Haydock Branch Junction, then onto the branch. The return was propelled off the branch and onto the up slow line behind WN 127 signal before heading back to Manchester Victoria via Chat Moss. After the closure of the line between Ravenhead and St Helens Junction the train was routed via Chat Moss in both directions to Springs Branch, where the loco ran round before heading south again. 

Later the train was re-routed via Copy Pit. This meant propelling the train to Springs Branch where the loco would run round, before heading north. Eventually the brake van was attached/detached at Springs Branch.

For a short while a loaded train ran from Kelbits to Culloden Moor. This could only be loaded on the siding nearest the plant at Kelbits. The loco was used to swap the empty wagons onto that siding so it could be loaded. 

[keefer]

In the late-1980s the UKF fertiliser trains to from Bletchley to Akeman St. had a brake van for the return empties, as they were propelled back down the branch due to lack of run-round facilities.

Wagons included PWA 'Palvans', OCA opens and Cargowaggon ferry vans (similar to IPA)

 

Traction Magazine article via PressReader

 

Page by Peter Tandy

 

Trains were featured in the DVD series 'Railfreight Today' - South East.

 

 

 

[keefer]

(c) Brian Daniels on Flickr

 

CAR B954874 (labelled 'Return to Hither Green') at Temple Mills. Perhaps used on some of the tanks in the background?

Edited June 6, 2022 by keefer

[w124bob]

Llandudno Junction would always have one or two around the yard for runs to Amwlch for chemical traffic  or up the branch with the explosive traffic or the flask site, there's a layout blog on here somewhere of the of the branch with quite a few photos of the real branch traffic. Worth mentioning the Baccy airpiped van has the wrong axlebox design, Hornby have done several version, but only later runs have the correct roller bearing axleboxes. See Pual Bartllet's site for lots of livery variations

[Crepello]

Your right Bob--the axlebox error will be repeated in the Farish model when it comes out. (I model in N). I'd welcome any thoughts on adapting it.

[w124bob]

Interesting article on the Denby branch

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/derby-telegraph/20190429/282819307627846

plus Fickr photo

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by w124bob

[Nick G]

20 hours ago, w124bob said:

Llandudno Junction would always have one or two around the yard for runs to Amwlch for chemical traffic  or up the branch with the explosive traffic or the flask site, there's a layout blog on here somewhere of the of the branch with quite a few photos of the real branch traffic. Worth mentioning the Baccy airpiped van has the wrong axlebox design, Hornby have done several version, but only later runs have the correct roller bearing axleboxes. See Pual Bartllet's site for lots of livery variations

 

Yes, the Maentwrog Road explosives traffic and the nuclear flask train to Trawsfynydd both used brake vans. The main reason is the trains were propelled for 12 miles from Blaenau Ffestiniog. Thanks for mentioning my layout  but sadly most photos won't be showing at the moment since the crash!

[LNERGE]

I'm looking for pictures of this type of bake van with battery electric tail lamps. One found so far.

[Rivercider]

3 hours ago, LNERGE said:

I'm looking for pictures of this type of bake van with battery electric tail lamps. One found so far.

The Bristol Temple Meads parcels pilot ran with a semi-permanently attached CAR for many years.

Here is one photo from Flickr with a battery tail lamp in 2002

https://www.flickr.com/photos/justindperkins/3388528670/in/photolist-29uH5Mm-6ar6w7-NsCu6m-2mWgeXL-EwZBwS-DsG1mX-ZG2bp1-ZG29rJ-2kvQrRk-YQ66sb-ZzCEWJ-YkoHBW-2iGE4q7-eeLZuG-22TBUVB-2iJRvWX-aqxnNk-

cdajvQ-cbPdjj-dseSzQ-U3pbfX-21n7iAL-LEATAf-qMeZvD-aZn18H-qpCBzz-2caGA5m-9J95RY-6LNZSj-8oX64E-bJP1fn-24AaQZX-eiDYRQ-8ahaXj-8H9qi8-fyGUbA-ahvMR7-iWLib1-eYtBAv-2bTBeVj-9UQZ7q-8EfqyL-o7gA7c-8ZBSBY-uDkAr7-xj7vdo

 

 

cheers

[LNERGE]

2 hours ago, Rivercider said:

The Bristol Temple Meads parcels pilot ran with a semi-permanently attached CAR for many years.

Here is one photo from Flickr with a battery tail lamp in 2002

https://www.flickr.com/photos/justindperkins/3388528670/in/photolist-29uH5Mm-6ar6w7-NsCu6m-2mWgeXL-EwZBwS-DsG1mX-ZG2bp1-ZG29rJ-2kvQrRk-YQ66sb-ZzCEWJ-YkoHBW-2iGE4q7-eeLZuG-22TBUVB-2iJRvWX-aqxnNk-

cdajvQ-cbPdjj-dseSzQ-U3pbfX-21n7iAL-LEATAf-qMeZvD-aZn18H-qpCBzz-2caGA5m-9J95RY-6LNZSj-8oX64E-bJP1fn-24AaQZX-eiDYRQ-8ahaXj-8H9qi8-fyGUbA-ahvMR7-iWLib1-eYtBAv-2bTBeVj-9UQZ7q-8EfqyL-o7gA7c-8ZBSBY-uDkAr7-xj7vdo

 

 

cheers

That’s the picture I’ve seen. The brake van attached to the pilot at Bristol was for track circuit issues much like 03’s and a conflat. I’ve now found some on flask trains but in later liveries. When did battery electric tail lamps start to be used?  

[LNERGE]

If this train was going the other way..

 

[Nick G]

8 hours ago, LNERGE said:

I'm looking for pictures of this type of bake van with battery electric tail lamps. One found so far.

 

Sent you a PM

[Steven B]

On 12/07/2022 at 08:56, LNERGE said:

I'm looking for pictures of this type of bake van with battery electric tail lamps. One found so far.

There are a few on Flickr. Vastly outnumbered by those with oil-lamps though.

 

 

 

Steven B.

[hmrspaul]

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakediag507/e38ebc21f

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakediag507/e38bd6af7

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakediag507/e30b5eed

 

Paul