Welcome to TT:120

[PeterStiles]

33 minutes ago, CloggyDog said:

Prieser already cover 1:120 in their range, both bulk unpainted and subject-specific painted, though. 

Yeah, and that's one of the settling points of tt:120, the wealth of European stuff that is usable in a British outline layout. But I wasn't really talking about figures, and I included the Sarissa link to show everyone that there are many useful buildings available, which means the number of UK manufacturers offering support is greater than two.

[Compound2632]

I fell into the blunder of thinking this was 2.5 mm/ft scale at an early stage. Having repented of my error, I do think the sub-forum title should be changed so as to avoid perpetuating it. Either "2.54 mm scale - TT:120" or, better, "0.1 in scale - TT:120" - though the irony of a thoroughly metric scale of central European origin being expressed as an imperial scale is not lost on me. 

[AY Mod]

On 14/10/2022 at 15:00, Hobby said:

why they just couldn't have chosen another loco I don't know,

 

They could have and consideration was given but, ultimately, as was said in their posting, they would want to be part of the scale being viable through a network of stockists.

 

Now you know.

[Dava]

On 12/10/2022 at 20:23, finelines said:

Two questions. Is there room for cottage industries? Where can I get the 8mm wheels and samples of those ghastly couplings? If it’s Germany what do I ask for?

There are Moskito & Markits 12mm gauge 00n3 solid wheels in 8 & 9mm diameter from Dundas Models, they are ideal (I use them for 014). 
https://dundasmodels.co.uk/webstore/index.php/hikashop-menu-for-module-108/category/542-dundas-models-00n3-wheels-bearings

 

There will be interest in plastic wagon kits such as Chivers produce in 2 & 4mm scales, eg there is as yet no 16 ton steel mineral wagon.

With the 08 as the first diesel loco, it needs wagons to shunt.

 

Dava

[Grovenor]

33 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I fell into the blunder of thinking this was 2.5 mm/ft scale at an early stage. Having repented of my error, I do think the sub-forum title should be changed so as to avoid perpetuating it. Either "2.54 mm scale - TT:120" or, better, "0.1 in scale - TT:120" - though the irony of a thoroughly metric scale of central European origin being expressed as an imperial scale is not lost on me. 

IIRC The real origin of  TT was in the USA, where their tendency to use decimal inches led them to 1/10" to a foot as a convenient scale.

[Ravenser]

Someone else to add to the list: a new range of detail bits from West Hill Wagon works:

 

West Hill TT-120

 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

I fell into the blunder of thinking this was 2.5 mm/ft scale at an early stage. Having repented of my error, I do think the sub-forum title should be changed so as to avoid perpetuating it. Either "2.54 mm scale - TT:120" or, better, "0.1 in scale - TT:120" - though the irony of a thoroughly metric scale of central European origin being expressed as an imperial scale is not lost on me. 

 

Hi there.  TT as in 1/10” : 1’ (1:120) originated with Hal Joyce in the United States at the end of WWII, hence the measurements we get.  I do most of my conversions by multiplying (or dividing) by 120, so I can use either metric or imperial measurements equally, Keith.

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke
Typo

[finelines]

1 hour ago, Dava said:

There are Moskito & Markits 12mm gauge 00n3 solid wheels in 8 & 9mm diameter from Dundas Models, they are ideal (I use them for 014). 
 

 

Wrong length axles to be drop in replacements. 
 

Roger

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

They could have and consideration was given but, ultimately, as was said in their posting, they would want to be part of the scale being viable through a network of stockists.

 

Now you know.

 

I do, but it doesn't seem logical. Before Hornby's big reveal when virtually nothing was due to be launched they were willing to go ahead even though any range would be tiny but now they aren't because it won't be in the shops. By that logic (if that's what it is and not just a dig at Hornby) if Hornby do start to sell it in shops they will be willing to start production - but the won't, because they've stopped everything. It still seems to me like they wanted to bail out and this gave them the chance, but they are hardly likely to admit that in public. You may view it differently, which is, of course, your prerogative.

 

I await their TT stock when Hornby start selling it in shops, then! ;)

Edited October 16, 2022 by Hobby

[britishcolumbian]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

a thoroughly metric scale of central European origin being expressed as an imperial scale is not lost on me

It is a scale that originated in the US (the only one besides S, 1:64), 1:120 specifically because that makes one inch to ten feet. It just for whatever reason only caught on in Central Europe.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Grovenor said:

IIRC The real origin of  TT was in the USA, where their tendency to use decimal inches led them to 1/10" to a foot as a convenient scale.

 

26 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Hi there.  TT as in 1/10” : 1’ (1:120) originated with Hal Joyce in the United States at the end of WWII, hence the measurements we get.  I do most of my conversions by multiplying (or dividing) by 120, so I can use either metric or imperial measurements equally, Keith.

 

1 minute ago, britishcolumbian said:

It is a scale that originated in the US (the only one besides S, 1:64), 1:120 specifically because that makes one inch to ten feet. It just for whatever reason only caught on in Central Europe.

 

Yes, yes, all very well but do you support my proposal that the subforum title be amended?

[AY Mod]

8 minutes ago, Hobby said:

You may view it differently, which is, of course, your prerogative.

 

You make that sound as though your perspective is superior, I can assure mine is more informed - from a primary source.

 

You may also wish to make note how the post was signed off, TT:FN, the 'FN' has a meaning and if circumstances change it may be reviewed.

[Hobby]

33 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said:

It just for whatever reason only caught on in Central Europe.

 

It pre dates N and the new flats being built in the Eastern Bloc were small, so it fitted the bill for people who hadn't the room for H0. By the time N came out and was of decent quality (some early stuff was dreadful) it had already taken root and N never got going in the East. I recon!!

 

30 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

You make that sound as though your perspective is superior, I can assure mine is more informed - from a primary source.

 

You may also wish to make note how the post was signed off, TT:FN, the 'FN' has a meaning and if circumstances change it may be reviewed.

 

Andy, you read too much into stuff sometimes, I was simply expressing a different viewpoint, I could equally say the same about some of your own and others posts. That's all it is, nothing more, nothing less. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Hobby
Misunderstood Andy's post, I apologise for that.

[AY Mod]

17 minutes ago, Hobby said:

If the second para was a veiled threat then so be it, I'm expressing a viewpoint in similar tones to others expressing the opposite view point,

 

Now YOU are reading to much into something. The 'FN' referred to Heljan's possible future position.

 

But you are getting to the point of annoying the hell out of me and that's nothing to do with the fact you are supportive of Hornby or the scale; it's the manner of the approach.

[britishcolumbian]

34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

 

Yes, yes, all very well but do you support my proposal that the subforum title be amended?

 Makes me no never mind either way but if I did have a choice I'd go with consistency in units of measure.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

49 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

 

Yes, yes, all very well but do you support my proposal that the subforum title be amended?

That’d be a question for the Moderators - Forum titles are co-ordinated centrally, and are not set up by Members.  At the time the Sub-Forum was set up it was to create a space for sharing modelling projects and ideas in 1:120 that could be separate from the hot topics associated with Trade announcements.  Hopefully my OP at the top of the thread provides clarification.

 

Personally, I’m more bothered by my own lack of progress on my modelling projects - by now I’d hoped to have something more to share than a completed loading dock.  TT:120 is a great scale to model in - so I ought to be showing the results to back this up.

 

Keith.

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

That’d be a question for the Moderators

 

Yes, that's why I'm making the proposal.

[whart57]

4 hours ago, Hobby said:

It pre dates N and the new flats being built in the Eastern Bloc were small, so it fitted the bill for people who hadn't the room for H0. By the time N came out and was of decent quality (some early stuff was dreadful) it had already taken root and N never got going in the East. I recon!!

 

The Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc were barred from buying the small Japanese magnets during the Cold War so the East German and Czech model train manufacturers couldn't do N gauge because they couldn't make motors small enough. However they were also in a closed market, N gauge competition was either blocked or got such high tariffs slapped on it so was unaffordable. That let TT get established, unlike in the West.

[AY Mod]

37 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes, that's why I'm making the proposal.

 

I appreciate the technical exactness but I'd be concerned that some may think it's another niche thus reducing engagement 

[rekoboy]

It was not just the East Germans who had problems getting motors small enough - Zeuke in E Germany and Triang here introduced TT in the late 1950s. At that stage no-one was getting 'toy market' motors cheap, reliable and small enough for anything below TT scale. As soon as smaller motors with home grown components were possible Piko in E Germany introduced its own N scale range - but there were not the funds available nor enough interest at ministerial level to make a real go of it, and production stopped well before German reunification.

Edited October 16, 2022 by rekoboy

[Hobby]

Yes, the Piko N stuff was what I meant. We still see it around and it looks dire, considering what BTTB were churning out at the sane time it's not surprising N didn't take off in the old Soviet Bloc. I take it that it would be nigh on impossible to import western n gauge as well?

[rekoboy]

There was a surprising amount of Arnold and Minitrix N scale material around in E Germany, simply because 70 or 80% of E German families had relatives in W Germany who were often happy and generous enough to fulfil model railway wishes at birthday and Christmas time. As long as parcels contained nothing forbidden (books, comics, porn) the East German authorities were not interested - although it was not a good idea to make a big song and dance about your Western models, especially on publically seen exhibition layouts.

Edited October 16, 2022 by rekoboy

[Grovenor]

57 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I appreciate the technical exactness but I'd be concerned that some may think it's another niche thus reducing engagement 

Given that calling it 2.5 mm scale is in error to almost 25% and misleading why not just call it "TT 1:120 Scale" concise and no misleading errors.

[whart57]

5 minutes ago, rekoboy said:

There was a surprising amount of Arnold and Minitrix N scale material around in E Germany, simply because 70 or 80% of E German families had relatives in W Germany who were often happy and generous enough to fulfil model railway wishes at birthday and Christmas time. As long as parcels contained nothing forbidden (books, comics, porn) the East German authorities were not interested - although it was not a good idea to make a big song and dance about your Western models, especially on publically seen exhibition layouts.

 

Back in the late 1960s my dad met an East German chemist at a conference in Prague. In conversation this East German mentioned he was interested in model railways and my dad replied he had a son who was too. So they agreed to swap model railway magazines when they got home. I got the East German magazine OK, useful for my German O Level, but the Railway Modeller and Model Railway Constructor were confiscated by the East German authorities.

[AY Mod]

14 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

Given that calling it 2.5 mm scale is in error to almost 25% and misleading why not just call it "TT 1:120 Scale" concise and no misleading errors.

 

2.5 vs 2.54 = 25%?