Hattons pre-owned items

[Halvarras]

Methinks the price is at odds with the description.......

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/1528201/hornby_r3287tts_po31_class_47_47401_in_br_large_logo_blue_pre_owned_hornby_body_fitted_to_non_tts_a/stockdetail

[John M Upton]

20 hours ago, Halvarras said:

Methinks the price is at odds with the description.......

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/1528201/hornby_r3287tts_po31_class_47_47401_in_br_large_logo_blue_pre_owned_hornby_body_fitted_to_non_tts_a/stockdetail

 

The TTS suffix has automatically triggered Hattons sound fitted tax which immediately bumps the price up, despite the fact it isn't even there!!!

[GWR-fan]

I purchased two "boxed" Hornby Pullman coaches.  The person listing the items has I believe, cross referenced the coach names against an apparent database and has sourced the items to the Hornby "White Pullman" train pack and the "Southern Belle" trainset.  Perhaps unknown to that person,  the items actually being listed were super detailed illuminated Pullman coaches and not the basic unlit coaches originally supplied with the train pack and set.  The coaches were priced accordingly.  

Edited November 21, 2023 by GWR-fan
Additional information

[NZRedBaron]

So, I have been wondering for a while now; there's been some 1980's era Lima NPCC's on sale up on Hatton's site, marked as being "LMS Period III GUV"s; was that a real thing at all?

[Dunsignalling]

On 22/11/2023 at 08:19, NZRedBaron said:

So, I have been wondering for a while now; there's been some 1980's era Lima NPCC's on sale up on Hatton's site, marked as being "LMS Period III GUV"s; was that a real thing at all?

During  "Period 3", there was no such thing as Period 3!

 

AIUI, the separation of LMS coaching stock into "Periods" was devised by the LMS Society in the late-1950s, as useful modelling shorthand for differentiating the various design features. 

 

Someone in BR maintenance spotted that it was simpler and more effective than their existing way of identifying vehicles and, perhaps uniquely, railway professionals adopted a practice created by modellers.

 

I understand that Messrs. Jenkinson and Essery were rather chuffed when they learned of it!

It is, in any case, arguable that the body style of the 42' GUV/CCT has nothing in common with contemporaneous passenger-carrying stock, so it doesn't really fit within any of the Periods. 

 

One of Lima's better models, they can scrub up quite nicely with a relatively modest amount of work. Photo attached of "one I did (much) earlier". 1998, IIRC!    

 

John

Edited November 23, 2023 by Dunsignalling
repetition!

[NZRedBaron]

Thanks kindly; I've got an old tender-drive "Black 5" from the 70's/80's that I figure would make for the head of a parcels and general merchandise type train, so having one or two of those GUVs would make sense to me.

Outside of that, I also have a light railway plan where wagons like that feature on both goods workings and a 'boat train'.

[GWR-fan]

Reassured by some mint seemingly unrun arrivals yesterday,  Dapol DCC fitted blood and custard Railcar (GBP56.00), Hornby "The Tysley Connection" trainpack (GBP51.00) and the super detailed "The Northumbrian" train pack with A4 and three super detailed Gresley coaches (GBP82.00),  I opted for a few more bargains.  It seems that new items keep getting regularly added to the list of sale items.  

[NZRedBaron]

On another note, I've got my eye on a pair of Peppercorn A2's from Bachmann, and I had a ponder; how popular are the A2's to model compared to the other LNER express engines?

[Sjcm]

On 23/11/2023 at 05:10, GWR-fan said:

Reassured by some mint seemingly unrun arrivals yesterday,  Dapol DCC fitted blood and custard Railcar (GBP56.00), Hornby "The Tysley Connection" trainpack (GBP51.00) and the super detailed "The Northumbrian" train pack with A4 and three super detailed Gresley coaches (GBP82.00),  I opted for a few more bargains.  It seems that new items keep getting regularly added to the list of sale items.  

Have to say the tyseley trainpack looks a bargain compared to ebay prices. The cheapest one on there went for 86 pounds. Odd that they would mark down something like that when they still sell broken tat at top prices

Edited November 24, 2023 by Sjcm

[GWR-fan]

1 hour ago, Sjcm said:

Have to say the tyseley trainpack looks a bargain compared to ebay prices......................

 

The price was after VAT removal.  The pack was marked down due a buffer being missing.  Basically the train pack was in new condition.  The store has another Tysley pack but from memory the price is around GBP170.00.   I continue to be amazed at how widely varied prices are for similar items.   I recently picked up two "red box" premier Pullman pre-owned digital trainsets, R1073,  for GBP120.00 each (after VAT) from the store.  On one the red box had deteriorated but was still functional and the other the loco had a whistle missing,  which is a very common issue with "rebuilt" locomotives.  The price was basically just covering the cost of the DCC fitted locomotive,  let alone a Select controller,  three illuminated Pullman coaches and two large ovals of track.  Shipment downunder is around GBP48.00 for each set.

[Sjcm]

Yeah but even with the VAT added it's about 20 pounds cheaper than the cheapest  one sold on ebay and seeing the cheapest are usually over 100 pounds  so probably minimum 40 pounds cheaper.  So for the sake of a missing buffer👍 The pricing is, as you say, bewildering from actual steals to stuff no-one sane would buy

Edited November 24, 2023 by Sjcm

[GWR-fan]

You win some you lose some.  With Hornby 12-wheel Pullman coaches selling in the store for upwards of GBP80.00 each,  I decided to take a punt on a Hornby train pack R2819,  "Bournemouth Belle",  comprising a Britannia class loco,  "Alfred the Great" and three 12-wheel Pullmans.  The listing description read DCC fitted,  L/H cab glazing loose (supplied).  Nothing really to warrant any concern as the description stated "recently tested and ran fine".  The pack cost me GBP180.00,  so represented good value for three Pullmans and a Britannia class locomotive.  With no major faults listed I quickly scanned the supplied images before pressing the confirmation of the purchase.  Sometime later I revisited the images to discover that one side of the mazak trailing bogie was missing.  I am usually quite observant of the images suplied but alas this defect eluded my scrutiny.  On this model the trailing bogie is a fixed truck with flangeless trailing wheels.  Also by now the store had removed the "Remove from Trunk" link for their stocktake so I was stuck with it.

 

The pack arrived today and it was obvious that the trailing bogie had suffered mazak rot, with only half the bogie supplied.  Undeterred,  I refitted the loose cab glazing and with great care I removed the tender body, removed the supplied decoder and fitted a blanking plate.  Unfortunately,  the loco was a non-runner not the "recently tested and ran fine" I believed it to be.   After investigation I found that three of the umbilical connection wires on the tender connection were adrift,  with one loose on the male fitting and two loose internally.  I do not have the dexterity to resolder the fine wire connections so my only sensible alternative was to hard wire the connection.  With al my Hornby models with the umbilical connection I always permanently secure the tender to the loco as I am aware of the fragile nature of the connector.  I finally had a running model.

 

I am pretty certain that securing a spare trailing truck would be nigh on impossible so I modified a swivelling rear bogie from another loco type as a stop gap measure should the correct "fixed" bogie one day resurface.  Although with hindsight my model is actually the second "Alfred the Great" that I have seen over the years with a mazak rotted rear bogie.  Perhaps other models will be similarly affected.

 

(Edit: the loco also ran the wrong polarity)

 

The Pullman cars were in almost mint condition so some bonus points there to sweeten the pot.

 

On the other side of the coin was a non-runner A4 in wartime black, Hornby R2338,  "Sir Charles Newton".  I had always wanted one but the asking price was always way too high for this popular model.  I paid GBP50.00.  Model was described as a non-runner with marks on the paintwork.  Apart from a previous owner poorly fitting the body and using a non-standard front mount screw,  the loco actually ran very well and as regards the marked paintwork,  well I am still looking but as yet am unable to find any marks.   A win on this one and a good price.  Sometimes it is worth taking a risk.

 

Finally,  a mint Hornby GWR express parcel railcar arrived.  No mention of it being DCC fitted so I tested it on analogue with no success.  Sure enough,  another of those decoder fitted models that the store does not advise of.  Was the omission of the decoder in the listing a simple oversight or did the store either not actually twest the model or rely on the previous owner's statements?  The decoder was removed, a blanking plate fitted and the model ran as smooth as silk.  Another win and another decoder for the spares box.  I have now accumulated over a dozen decoders from recent purchases from the store.  One day I may relent and actually develop an interest in digital so the spare decoders wil come in handy,  but for now I prefer analogue operation.  I need to source more blanking plates as I have used up my stock.

Edited December 1, 2023 by GWR-fan
Additional information

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, GWR-fan said:

You win some you lose some.  With Hornby 12-wheel Pullman coaches selling in the store for upwards of GBP80.00 each,  I decided to take a punt on a Hornby train pack R2819,  "Bournemouth Belle",  comprising a Britannia class loco,  "Alfred the Great" and three 12-wheel Pullmans.  The listing description read DCC fitted,  L/H cab glazing loose (supplied).  Nothing really to warrant any concern as the description stated "recently tested and ran fine".  The pack cost me GBP180.00,  so represented good value for three Pullmans and a Britannia class locomotive.  With no major faults listed I quickly scanned the supplied images before pressing the confirmation of the purchase.  Sometime later I revisited the images to discover that one side of the mazak trailing bogie was missing.  I am usually quite observant of the images suplied but alas this defect eluded my scrutiny.  On this model the trailing bogie is a fixed truck with flangeless trailing wheels.  Also by now the store had removed the "Remove from Trunk" link for their stocktake so I was stuck with it.

 

The pack arrived today and it was obvious that the trailing bogie had suffered mazak rot, with only half the bogie supplied.  Undeterred,  I refitted the loose cab glazing and with great care I removed the tender body, removed the supplied decoder and fitted a blanking plate.  Unfortunately,  the loco was a non-runner not the "recently tested and ran fine" I believed it to be.   After investigation I found that three of the umbilical connection wires on the tender connection were adrift,  with one loose on the male fitting and two loose internally.  I do not have the dexterity to resolder the fine wire connections so my only sensible alternative was to hard wire the connection.  With al my Hornby models with the umbilical connection I always permanently secure the tender to the loco as I am aware of the fragile nature of the connector.  I finally had a running model.

 

I am pretty certain that securing a spare trailing truck would be nigh on impossible so I modified a swivelling rear bogie from another loco type as a stop gap measure should the correct "fixed" bogie one day resurface.  Although with hindsight my model is actually the second "Alfred the Great" that I have seen over the years with a mazak rotted rear bogie.  Perhaps other models will be similarly affected.

 

The Pullman cars were in almost mint condition so some bonus points there to sweeten the pot.

 

On the other side of the coin was a non-runner A4 in wartime black, Hornby R2338,  "Sir Charles Newton".  I had always wanted one but the asking price was always way too high for this popular model.  I paid GBP50.00.  Model was described as a non-runner with marks on the paintwork.  Apart from a previous owner poorly fitting the body and using a non-standard front mount screw,  the loco actually ran very well and as regards the marked paintwork,  well I am still looking but as yet am unable to find any marks.   A win on this one and a good price.  Sometimes it is worth taking a risk.

 

Finally,  a mint Hornby GWR express parcel railcar arrived.  No mention of it being DCC fitted so I tested it on analogue with no success.  Sure enough,  another of those decoder fitted models that the store does not advise of.  Was the omission of the decoder in the listing a simple oversight or did the store either not actually twest the model or rely on the previous owner's statements?  The decoder was removed, a blanking plate fitted and the model ran as smooth as silk.  Another win and another decoder for the spares box.  I have now accumulated over a dozen decoders from recent purchases from the store.  One day I may relent and actually develop an interest in digital so the spare decoders wil come in handy,  but for now I prefer analogue operation.  I need to source more blanking plates as I have used up my stock.

Whilst the description is inadequate, you clearly aren't going to want to go through the hassle of returning it, I've heard of similar runner/non-runner issues, but the converse often applies, too. Where DCC fitted, all my purchases listed as non/dodgy runners have worked perfectly after removing the chip. Non-DCC ones, except where gears are stripped, have either run despite the description, or with very little attention.

 

However, one word of warning, if a DCC-fitted non-runner starts working once it's restored to analogue, the salvaged chip is, in all likelihood, kaput. I've passed a few on to friends and only one didn't turn the loco to which it was added into a non-runner!  

 

In my case, with Hornby locos, I assume split gears and where replacements are no longer available, I'll stop buying "non-runners" once I've exhausted my existing stock. In all other cases, though, all errors bar one, have so far been to my benefit. The exception being fixable, but more challenging... 😊

 

Mind you, even without the loco, Hatton's asking price for individual 12-wheel Pullmans still leaves your £180-for-three on the right side, especially as most other sellers seem to be asking rather more than £80 each for them.  

 

PM sent about your loco.

 

John

Edited December 1, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[GWR-fan]

John,

          I am up to the challenge with a non-runner, particularly as you say if DCC fitted.  I assume also that either the chip is dead or the loco has not been "tuned" to the decoder or possibly wrong address is used when tested.  If split gears or gears not engaging are mentioned then it is a no-no.  When Peters Spares had their GBP7.00 shipping cost internationally,   I purchased a lot of spares when available.  However, with a minimum shipping cost around GBP40.00 even for just a few gears then my rectification days are over with non-runners.

 

The "non-runner issue with the wartime black A4 was just the two fine upper finger pickups on the loco drawbar.  They had been crossed over each other so that when the tender draw pin was inserted a short circuit would have occurred (the pin being the oposite polarity).  Took barely a few seconds to straighten them out.   I assume if just the loco had been tested without the tender being connected then it would have run (and the asking price a lot higher).

Edited December 1, 2023 by GWR-fan
Additional information

[sandwich station]

12 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

  Also by now the store had removed the "Remove from Trunk" link for their stocktake so I was stuck with it.

 

If you email them, they will remove the item for you.

[GWR-fan]

21 minutes ago, sandwich station said:

 

If you email them, they will remove the item for you.

 

Thankyou.  I need to be more observant in future and not rely mainly on the item description.

[John M Upton]

8 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

 

Thankyou.  I need to be more observant in future and not rely mainly on the item description.

 

Indeed, although, unlike some ebay sellers, I would have expected a professional retailer to provide a description that was accurate and reliable.

[Dunsignalling]

20 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

John,

          I am up to the challenge with a non-runner, particularly as you say if DCC fitted.  I assume also that either the chip is dead or the loco has not been "tuned" to the decoder or possibly wrong address is used when tested.  If split gears or gears not engaging are mentioned then it is a no-no.  When Peters Spares had their GBP7.00 shipping cost internationally,   I purchased a lot of spares when available.  However, with a minimum shipping cost around GBP40.00 even for just a few gears then my rectification days are over with non-runners.

 

The "non-runner issue with the wartime black A4 was just the two fine upper finger pickups on the loco drawbar.  They had been crossed over each other so that when the tender draw pin was inserted a short circuit would have occurred (the pin being the oposite polarity).  Took barely a few seconds to straighten them out.   I assume if just the loco had been tested without the tender being connected then it would have run (and the asking price a lot higher).

That problem with the old-style tender electrical links is not uncommon. I always look at those even before conducting any other tests on "non-runners"!

 

One WC I bought had received a replacement tender chassis that was wired backwards, which fooled me for a while until I spotted the part was factory-weathered so was for a 'Plymouth' (the only rebuilt WC that's been so finished). I'd come across that by chance  with my own example of that loco when I used its tender to test another loco....

 

I've not yet needed to try it, but I'm told that cheap packs of assorted single gears from China often include some that match those that most commonly split on older Hornby Bulleid Pacifics and are no longer available as official  spares. 

 

John

Edited December 2, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[MikeParkin65]

Took a gamble on the latest version R3997 Princess Coronation 46245 'City of London' in the bargains - down to £127 but with the front bogie detached. Arrived today very well packed, looks unused and now smoothly running in. Only missing part is the nut that holds the bogie bolt which I have plenty of. Have already got R3997 (which I paid £230 for!) so this one will be renamed before entering traffic.

 

Hattons pre owned could well become addictive, there are/have been some really tempting proper bargains this past few weeks. Anyone on here get the new version Bachmann V2 that seemed to have been mispriced as the previous version - think it was £97 about a week ago?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

6 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Hattons pre owned could well become addictive...

Particularly the sport of 'hunt the misidentified'. Missed that V2 as I was overseas last week. Apparently it's rude to visit family you haven't seen in years and spend all your time looking at a screen while with them...

[GWR-fan]

15 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

..............................................................

 

Hattons pre owned could well become addictive, there are/have been some really tempting proper bargains this past few weeks. .....................................................

 

If you keep looking they keep adding new pre-owned items continuously (unfortunately).  Just picked up two Bachmann 4MT 2-6-0 tender locomotives in LMS black (double exhaust) and BR early crest (single exhaust) for GBP27.00  each after VAT removal.  These are DCC ready and apparently "recently tested and ran fine".  The locomotives were not there late last night when I checked the available stock.

 

I noticed the pre-owned bluetooth app itraveller trainsets and the "Date with a Duchy" trainpacks also have been reduced by quite a margin from what was being asked yesterday.

 

Edit:  a recheck this afternoon showed a Bachmann N class "1406" in olive green with tender connection damaged but "recently tested" for GBP21.00 (GBP17.50 after VAT).  Both loco and tender bodies looked fine (tender apparently missing some detail items on the tender deck) but for that price a very inexpensive running chassis.

 

I should have stayed away,  but was hooked on a "Deltic" (fine when last run) GBP95.83 after VAT.  Supplied in the later clear window packaging,  #32-522NRM.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by GWR-fan
Correction

[GWR-fan]

3 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Particularly the sport of 'hunt the misidentified'. ......................................

Reminds me of years ago when I was into largescale backyard railways.  On eBay,  an LGB Mogul,  D.S.P. & P. Railway 2-6-0 locomotive was listed at auction.  The images were perhaps not that good but it seems that everyone assumed the model was the original analogue model,  #2018D and so only one other person bid on it.  From what I could gauge from the images was that the model was actually a much later digital model with sound.  Side by side the models looked exactly the same so one could assume that the loco offered was an original model from the 1980's.  The giveaway was that on the digital version there was a small receptacle for the umbilical chord that exitted through the rear of the cab (there was an image showing the rear of the cab) and not beneath the cab as on the analogue model.  Well I got the model for next to nothing with basically no one bidding against me.

[OnTheBranchline]

The pre-owned offerings lately (at least for the past few weeks) have been a bit dismal. 

[MattR]

25 minutes ago, OnTheBranchline said:

The pre-owned offerings lately (at least for the past few weeks) have been a bit dismal. 

 

Yeah, lots of expensive DMUs and 50 billion buses. 

 

I will say that they did stealthily mark down a lot of stuff that they didn't put in their "bargain" lists, so I've been able to pick up a bunch of locomotives and coaches for great prices that I've had on my wishlist for a while. And now, for the first time in possibly ever, there's nothing right now I particularly need.

[OnTheBranchline]

45 minutes ago, MattR said:

 

Yeah, lots of expensive DMUs and 50 billion buses. 

 

I will say that they did stealthily mark down a lot of stuff that they didn't put in their "bargain" lists, so I've been able to pick up a bunch of locomotives and coaches for great prices that I've had on my wishlist for a while. And now, for the first time in possibly ever, there's nothing right now I particularly need.

There was a Hornby Grange for 50 quid, but I don't need a 5th Grange...