Hattons pre-owned items

[GWR-fan]

I admit that I purchase many more pre-owned items, both locomotives and rolling stock than a typical Hattons customer so perhaps I see more defective items than most.  Of late Hattons in many instances will show a single image of an item for sale whether a locomotive or a piece of rolling stock and typically the item is still packaged.  One then must rely on the store revealing any defects in the model.  Of late though I have been receiving items based on a single image with the item still packaged and no description of damage to the item.  In the past one received at least two images and if an item had a defect then this was usually disclosed in a third image.

 

Alas damaged/defective pre-owned item are becoming more regular,  leaving me to wonder if the store actually removes an item from its package prior to listing.  Common defects are rolling stock bodies or undeframes that have prior damage as the pieces missing are not present in the packaging so not intransit damage.  to find a piece of rolling stock with a chunk missing from the body or the sides of the item bowed or distorted is unfortunately becoming more common.  Simply providing one image of an item still packaged gives no clue as to the state of the model.

 

Today as well as a coach and GWR Siphon van having damage,  I received a Golden Valley Hobbies Janus diesel in the blue NCB livery.  I was eagerly awaiting this locomotive and was extremely disappointed that the model was missing a buffer plus endsill detail,  but more importantly every handrail was broken or adrift with previous unsuccessful attempts to glue the rails back on.  None of this was revealed prior purchase and the listing showed just one image of a boxed item.  If two images had been shown of the loco unboxed then I would not have touched with a barge pole.   The end result is that the body is useless to me and I am left with a spare well run chassis.  The loco was not inexpensive so in reality I should return it,  however,  the return process would take around six to eight weeks.

 

Pre-owned purchases are now becoming a risky proposition as unlike a couple of years ago when prices were far lower and the quality of the items usually blemish free,  many pre-owned items are matching relatively recent new prices.  The store is economising on its previously superb listing practices and possibly the personnel who usually listed the items in the past have changed.  I suggest that one not rely on either a single image of a packaged item or the listing description as a true indicator of the quality of the item that one will receive.  The purchaser relies on a true description of a potential purchase and failure to reveal defects or damage or just provide one sometimes blurred or fuzzy image or light of the flash reflecting off the clear packaging of an item in a box does not do the customer any favours.   I will continue to buy pre-owned items from the store but will definitely be more aware that what is seen and described may not truly reflect the state of the item received.

 

Edit:   as well as the damage to the Janus locomotive,  half the body mount screws are missing,  careless glue marks on the body and the loco runs reverse polarity.  All this seemed to escape the attention of the person who listed the item.  did the loco even leave its packaging prior listing.  This is the verbatim description on the listing:

 

Quote:  "YEC Janus 0-6-0DE shunter 6 "Roger H Bennett" in National Coal Board NCB blue - Pre-owned - Very good box"

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by GWR-fan
Additional information

[dpgibbons]

Inspecting, photographing, writing and posting an ad for second-hand stuff is quite time consuming, as any eBay seller will tell you. Simply unpackaging and repackaging a loco can take ten minutes.   

 

So I suspect that Hattons have decided it's more profitable to skip most of these steps. Now they let the buyer do the inspection and accept a higher level of returns - which is how some RTR manufacturers already operate.

 

On the flip side, this would imply that Hattons aren't opening the boxes before they buy, which might be welcome news to unscrupulous sellers.  

  

[GWR-fan]

There does seem more store interest in the condition of the packaging rather than that of the model inside.  In the past the store has rarely failed to achieve my full satisfaction,  however, of late I am becoming quite jaded.  I am awaiting a Bachmann O4 Robinson which the listing only had one image of a boxed loco so my fingers are crossed..

 

I believe that someone looks at the packaging and if in very good to excellent condition then they see no reason to remove an item from the box and assume the loco or rolling stock condition matches the box condition.  Perhaps I should just purchase unboxed items,  although a recent purchase of an unboxed Hornby bogie wagon failed to reveal in the two images provided that a relatively large chunk had been previously broken out of the end of the wagon.  No broken pieces were in the shipping package supplied so not intransit damage.  I quite often copy the image and magnify it to get a better view of the item's condition but failed on this occasion to spot the damage.

[Allegheny1600]

Hattons stated roughly in an email recently (that you should have received if you receive their daily pre-owned items email!), forgive me if I can’t recall the exact wording;

 

”certain items that they are selling are simply ‘too good to open’ this is because they have been purchased and the purchaser has never opened it so they won’t either”

 

They do provide a link to take you back to the items original description.

 

As always “buyer beware” 

[John M Upton]

There is a link on their individual listings to contact them with any inquiries. If in doubt, ask. Any reputable seller will happily answer questions, if they fail to provide a satisfactory answer, take your money elsewhere. 

[GWR-fan]

58 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Hattons stated roughly in an email recently (that you should have received if you receive their daily pre-owned items email!), forgive me if I can’t recall the exact wording;

 

”certain items that they are selling are simply ‘too good to open’ this is because they have been purchased and the purchaser has never opened it so they won’t either”

 

They do provide a link to take you back to the items original description.

 

As always “buyer beware” 

 

I do not subscribe to email alerts so was unaware of this recent statement.  As I stated in my second post it seems that if the box looks to be in very good to excellent condition then the store assumes that the contents are in a similar condition.  How many times on eBay has a private seller sold an item as new condition/unused only to receive the same item in poor condition?  I find it hard to believe that a store would take a condition report purely on the word of the person trading in the item.

 

With my damaged Janus loco the box looked like new (but missing the inner clear sleeve), however,   the contents had been butchered through mishandling or neglect and a poor attempt at rectification.

[GWR-fan]

Refer this listing,  a Bachmann A4 "Golden Eagle",  never run, cosmetically pristine. 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/938583/bachmann_branchline_31_956_po18_class_a4_4_6_2_4482_golden_eagle_in_lner_green_pre_owned_like_new_box/stockdetail

 

This no doubt is one of those "unrun" gems that the store does not remove from its box to photograph or to test run.  Effectively,  the potential buyer is firstly relying on the integrity of the person who traded in the item and secondly as the store did not remove from its packaging,  then as is the case with many unrun split chassis models from Bachmann,  how many axle muffs have deteriorated?  The buyer is now the guinea pig.  I may have been unlucky in the past but the A4's that I have purchased all required remedial action to correct misaligned quartering due plastic muff deterioration.  This is one model that I will leave on the shelf, although I do have a soft spot for the LNER green "Golden Eagle" having had models from both Hornby and Bachmann.  Of cause a potential buyer may request that the item be removed, inspected and possibly tested, but would they do this as it complicates their new streamlined listing regime?

 

If you went to your local hobby store and saw a model that a previous owner had traded in then you would want to know that the store owner had tested the model prior offering it to you for sale.   Of late,  the store has listed numerous trainsets and trainpacks,  in many cases stating that the contents are still "factory sealed".  Simply seeing a bit of thin tissue paper wrapped around a model does not guarantee that the item was not removed by the previous owner even just to inspect it upon receiving it.  When I receive a trainset or trainpack I always remove the contents, inspect the items and then rewrap the items in the supplied tissue paper.   Could I still make the claim that the contents are still "factory sealed"?

 

I am awaiting a response from the store regarding my latest "catastrophe",  although all I really expect is a simple apology.  To safeguard any future dramas then perhaps I will limit my purchases to just those items that the listing shows at least two images of the model and not just a photo of a pristine pretty packaging obscuring the loco or rolling stock inside.  Hopefully,  the store abandons this folly and returns to the method they have used for many years previously.  The new method aligns the store with the chances that one takes when buying on eBay.

 

Edit:   many items now in reference to the running condition of a loco state,  quote:

"Running : Fine When Last Run"

Did the store test the running condition or is the store relying on the word of the person who traded the model in?  "How does it run?",  "Oh,  it ran fine last time I was running it".  As if the person would tell the store that the model did not run properly, thus decreasing the financial return on the model.

Edited July 17, 2022 by GWR-fan
Additional information

[brossard]

From time to time I browse the pre-owned 7mm listings.  My impression is that these are not bargains and the pricing seems not that far removed from the retail price.  I wouldn't touch the kit built stock with a barge pole.

 

Now and then though a gem does come up.  I got a Dapol Sentinel with sound for a very good price, it had a missing chimney cap.  I had to repaint and letter it but a good do I think.

 

John

[GWR-fan]

The store has responded and offered a partial refund should I not return the item.  The apparent aim of the new process is to avoid possible damage to newer mint item and their packaging,  as removing the items to photograph could cause some damage and it seems the process is aimed at the collector market,

 

(quote) "The majority of items we have had under this new process have had no issues and are as described by the previous owners. We have started this to prevent any damage from newer items and boxes as we know that collectors want the boxes in mint condition." (end quote).

 

Personally,  how the store is able to gauge the actual condition of an item without removing it from its packaging and test running it does astound me.  The system relies on the integrity of the person trading in the item and the ability of the store to magically make the decision that the item is fit for sale.   It seems the better the quality of the packaging the less scrutiny that an item will receive prior listing for sale.

 

It is ironic that a GBP25.00 locomotive will receive more listing images and actually be test run prior sale and yet a GBP120.00 model in a mint package will not even be removed from its box.

[meatloaf]

In the last month ive had a few preowned locos. All described as not tested and as you say all a single photo of the loco in the box. They were all also pretty cheap. 2 out of the 3 were obviously brand new never opened. One had been opened but was pristine. 

[Hroth]

Hattons pre-owned, as recommended by Pete Waterman!

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, meatloaf said:

In the last month ive had a few preowned locos. All described as not tested and as you say all a single photo of the loco in the box. They were all also pretty cheap. 2 out of the 3 were obviously brand new never opened. One had been opened but was pristine. 

 

Same. Including locos that have obviously never even had the sliding outer wrapping removed. You can tell a mile away.

 

One or two might get through the net. But I would expect the vast majority of the models we are talking about have come from collectors that are hoarding the things rather than using them. You can often tell as there will be a lot come up that fits a certain theme such as all GWR. Then a few weeks later there will be a lot of BR diesels.

 

Rather have them unopened if that is the case.

 

 

Can't the OP ask for them to be checked before dispatch?

 

 

 

Jason

[Blackthorn]

I have only ever had one negative experience with Hattons and their pre-owned sales.  The issue was sorted within hours.

 

I often buy items listed as non runners etc. as they usually take five minutes of work to repair and I can't afford the crazy prices of new models. I also really don't care if the box is pristine, I buy my models to run on a layout and/or be weathered.  The whole collecting unopened models baffles me a bit, they'll never be worth a fortune, the plastic will disintegrate in another fifty or so years anyway.  Plus it just drives the prices of pre-owned models up making the hobby more unaffordable. 

 

Sorry, in a bit of a mood this morning.  I forgot to buy tea yesterday and have run out. 

[John M Upton]

On the other side of the coin, in which universe is this pile of broken scrap worth a hundred and eighty five quid?!?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/938357/hornby_r2260_po02_steamlined_west_country_class_4_6_2_34070_manston_in_br_green_pre_owned_front_/stockdetail

 

[sandwich station]

7 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

On the other side of the coin, in which universe is this pile of broken scrap worth a hundred and eighty five quid?!?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/938357/hornby_r2260_po02_steamlined_west_country_class_4_6_2_34070_manston_in_br_green_pre_owned_front_/stockdetail

 

 

They were a limited edition of 500.

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

22 minutes ago, sandwich station said:

 

They were a limited edition of 500.

 

 

Just as well if they're falling apart like that

[cessna152towser]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

48 minutes ago, sandwich station said:

They were a limited edition of 500.

 

 

Just as well if they're falling apart like that

I bought one of those as my wife an I have both done some footplate experience on the full size Manston on the Swanage Railway.

I have been disappointed with the model.   Already had to rewire the loco to tender electrical connections and the body is a poor fit on the chassis.

Anyway back on topic.   Hattons pre-owned.  An Accurascale Nuclear PFA pack which I missed when they were first issued had been on my wants list with Hattons.   They e-mailed me a few weeks ago to tell me they had now sourced a second hand used example.   They were asking 75 pounds and I bought it.  Very pleased.  All the original packaging with the wagons and containers still wrapped in their individual original papers , all look brand new and like they have never been taken out of the box and run.    One satisfied customer of Hattons pre-owned department.

[Hroth]

58 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

On the other side of the coin, in which universe is this pile of broken scrap worth a hundred and eighty five quid?!?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/938357/hornby_r2260_po02_steamlined_west_country_class_4_6_2_34070_manston_in_br_green_pre_owned_front_/stockdetail

 

 

49 minutes ago, sandwich station said:

 

They were a limited edition of 500.

 

 

 

The listing Womble probably confused it with the more recent Club edition (R3249) which (to date) hasn't shown any auto-destruct tendancies.

[Halvarras]

There was no time to flag up the "Heljan Park Royal railbus" which went up a few weeks ago for £150, which was clearly a not particularly well finished Dapol kit on what looked like a Hornby Pacer chassis - that one disappeared very quickly. A few days ago a roughly painted "dummy" Wrenn Class 20* with missing handrails appeared for a puzzling £65, again it rapidly vanished. 

Having bought some real bargains from Hattons Preowned over recent years I still keep a regular eye on the listings although those times seem to have passed.

 

Looking at the sheer number of items which appear some days, all of which require processing and photographing, I often wonder if Hattons underestimated the size of the pre-owned behemoth they were creating - mistakes are surely inevitable. 

 

*Reminded me that somebody gave me an unpowered HD Class 20 when I was still at school, over 50 years ago now - since I already had a powered one painted blue I painted this one green, filed off/filled in the unwanted headcode discs/light recesses and made up some plasticard headcode boxes for it. I suppose this was rather 'cutting edge' back then 🤪

[HExpressD]

19 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

They were a limited edition of 500.

 

 

Limited Edition of 499 now if that picture is anything to go by!

 

I remember posting on another thread before that I'm sure I recall a post from Hattons saying that to speed up listings etc they were no longer removing pre-owned items from the boxes, hence why a lot of listings don't have any images on them of the item out of the box. I'll echo the previous comments regarding speed, listings and higher return levels tolerated.

[sandwich station]

4 hours ago, HExpressD said:

Limited Edition of 499 now if that picture is anything to go by!

 

If you can source a front bogie, there is nothing wrong with it and it has already sold.

Edited July 20, 2022 by sandwich station

[97406]

I’ve had no problems with Hattons pre owned stuff, having bought a fair number of items that way over the last couple of years. Nor have I had any quibbles from them returning stuff. 

[John M Upton]

I have had a few bargains from them in the HO scale category though (less demand, more of a niche market perhaps?) including some rare as hens teeth in the UK undecorated Proto 2000 locos for very reasonable amounts.  It is only when DCC fitted and Sound Fitted seem to enter the equation that some sort of automatic tax starts to affect their pricing policy but as I care not for DCC or Sound then its not a problem.

 

Still amused by the obsession with the box condition description though, the contents may be a broken pile of scrap with half the bits missing but hey, its got an excellent box!!!

[Tumut]

The same applies to books, an intact dust jacket significantly affects the price upwards.

[andyman7]

On 25/07/2022 at 17:28, The Black Prince said:

 

Probably the old British mentality of the box is where the value lies 

Back when I started collecting diecast models in the 80s, the value of the box for UK collectors was always more pronounced - but what it actually meant was that on the continent, unboxed but mint models cost more, because the lack of a box did not result in anything like as big a discount as back home.
On a more practical note, 'loose' models are very easily damaged so storage and carriage in a box does imply better condition. In most cases, the most practical solution is the original box, so why chuck it away?
I appreciate that many 'home' layouts include stick that is never moved around, but I can tell you that when the owners go to the great exhibition in the sky and the stuff ends up in auction, piles of unboxed items are much harder to catalogue and will fetch lower prices because buyers can't be as sure of what they are getting or that all the bits will be there.

So whilst it will no doubt remain a subject at which one group of people will mock others, there are some seriously practical aspects to holding on to the box!