Can you identify this vintage OO Gauge GWR coach manufacturer and the prototype ?

[Stentor]

I have acquired this OO gauge coach body as part of a job lot from eBay.

 

It is made of tinplate and has quite prominent internal lugs to hold the glazing in place, the ends are quite roughly finished.

 

The way that the vents are soldered into the roof makes me think that it might have come as a kit but I am not certain.

 

A quick browse on Google gives me a shortlist of Jaypee, Westdale or BSL - but none of those makes exactly match in terms of materials used. 

 

I'm not very knowledgeable on GWR coach stock so can anybody identify what the prototype is, real or generic.

 

Can anybody share any insight into this mystery coach.

 

Any help much appreciated, thanks,

//Simon

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Stentor
Formatting - it was badly needed

[The Johnster]

It’s a Collett Bowended 57’ Gangwayed composite, not sure of the diagram number.  Hornby have a similar coach in their current range.  Bogies to complete would be Collett 7’, and I’d suggest Stafford Road Works 3D printed available through Shapeways, not cheap but includes NEM pocket and runs well on Hornby or Bachmann. RTR wheels.  
 

I think it might be a BSL kit. 

[rovex]

I think it's more likely to be westdale. The roof sides and solebars are all moulded from one solid piece of aluminium.

BSL/Phoenix, came with separate sides and solebars and a wooden roof, or metal in later kits.

[The Johnster]

Whoever made the kit included printed sides, and the OP says it is tinplate, not ally.  This doesn't preclude it's being Westdale, of course, just that I never knew they made kits with printed sides.

[Steamport Southport]

Ends don't look like anything I've ever had. BSL and Westdale tend to be a bit of stamped aluminium.

 

What were AF Hammond or Trevor Charlton kits like?

 

Could it be Trevor Charlton and made of zinc?

 

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits4coacha.html

 

 

No that looks like a dead end I'm afraid. Neither of them are like that.

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/hammond-gwr-61-restaurant-car-dia-h38-486396852

 

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/trevor-charlton-4mm-etched-zinc-sides-305224602

 

 

Jason

Edited July 29, 2022 by Steamport Southport

[Nick Holliday]

Could it be an Exley model which has seen rather bad times?  The quality of the paintwork suggests a factory finish, the only problem is that it seems that they used aluminium sheet, not tinplate, although things may have changed over the long period they were in production, and I don’t know if they produced this particular type of carriage.

[Coach bogie]

I would like to suggest the coach is a Hamblings from the early to mid 1950's. Exley tend to have the roof vents stamped out of the roof, Well the few I have do, whereas the Hamblings had separate fitted vents.

 

Hamblings sold a  range of coaches available in all the big four liveries, plus BR. There was a similar range of non corridor stock.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

[hayfield]

In the 50's early 60's there were several companies making preformed coach sides another name to put into the mixer started with B, but I never saw them pre-printed. As for whitemetal ends several makes used whitemetal castings as well as either preformed metal sheet or wooden ends, it depended on prototype being modelled

 

The other clue is the holes in the solebar, to fix to a wooden floor, Birtiedog would have know the make, the other unique thing is the internal glazing retaining bars 

 

Don't forget pre-printed tin plate was a widely used medium in model railways and toys in the 50's

[Cwmtwrch]

The prototype could have been E127, E132, E136 or E143 or any combination thereof. The differences are minor dimensional changes, or different arrangements of things like battery boxes.

 

I can't help much on the maker, but it may be hand painted rather than printed - the relationship between "FIRST" and the door handle is not consistent. The large clip suggests that the glazing may have been real glass, which was apparently an Exley practice, but I would have expected better end castings in that case.

[The Johnster]

Anyway, it's got potential.  Hornby or Wizard chassis, Wizard ends, and a Hornby or home made interior, new door handles, grab rails, door stops, hinges, buffers, handrails and couplings.  Probably cheaper to buy a current production RTR Hornby, for a very high quality finished model in the livery of your choice (except WW2 1942-5 austerity brown).

[Coach bogie]

Hamblings charged 34 shillings in 1952. or £56.94 equivalent in 2022.

 

I am with Johnster - cheaper to buy a new Hornby.

 

I have a few 'restorations' that will never happen now, as an rtr or kit has come along. Your most precious commodity is time. I use what time I have on the projects NOT covered by the rtr companies.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[hayfield]

Unless you are a tinplate collector, your modelling interests are for retro models or even just fancy a change from highly detailed models and fance something different for a change. I would opt for a more modern item.

 

Restoration yes super detailing I think would  be over the top

[Stentor]

Thanks to everybody who has read my question and especially to those who took the trouble to reply, it is appreciated.

 

There were a couple of questions about whether it is made of aluminium and no, it is tinplate as there are a few rust pinpricks and a magnet sticks to it.

 

I have the bad habit of getting sentimental about and feeling sorry for neglected models which regularly results in me buying basket cases. I think it comes from my Dad telling me bedtime stories about the old rusty lorry that was replaced and ended up down the breakers yard only to be repealed from the cutter's torch at the last minute when its replacement broke down.

 

So now that I know what this coach is supposed to represent and nobody is telling me I have uncovered the "missing link" in the evolution of model coaches I will do something with this but I won't throw a large budget at it.

 

Thanks again to all.

 

//Simon

[Hal Nail]

17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Probably cheaper to buy a current production RTR Hornby, for a very high quality finished model in the livery of your choice

The profile of that body isnt right either whereas a new Hornby would be.

[The Johnster]

I'd suggest working it up as a background siding lurker.  You'll need to do a repaint, and a chassis off an Airfix B set coach chopped down, or the second version of Hornby's gangwayed Colletts, when they started using the correct 7' bogies; I believe these are still in the Railroad range and come up on the bay of E sometimes.  Problem with this is that it'd be another coach and potentially another project unless you have a damaged body example hanging around...  It's an interesting throwback and it would be nice to find a role of some sort on a layout for it (I completely understand your feeling sorry for basket cases, I'm the same), but at the same time spending money that would be better spent on a new Hornby version is pointless; cheap and cheerful is what you are after here!

 

Let us know what you do with it, with photos please, when the time is right!

[tomparryharry]

I'd suggest Graham Farish; early 70's. I had one back then, but didn't finish it.

[hayfield]

Just to show you lots of the smaller companies got into the act, Jamieson produced these coaches even with door handles and hinges stamped out. Not saying yours is a jamieson but a search through early Railway Modeller, News or Constructor might give some idea who made or sold them.   Eames ?  Exley ?

 

Quite often these type of coach kit were body only kits with bogies and underframe details extra

 

Another company producing this type of coach was Jaypee, see this thread

 

[Coach bogie]

12 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

I'd suggest Graham Farish; early 70's. I had one back then, but didn't finish it.

The Graham Farish coaches I had were all plastic. I only have a couple left as they were prone to sagging, especially the Pullmans.

 

Hayfield mentioned Jamieson. I only ever saw BR mark 1 types and they were unpainted from them, but as they have been around since the late 1940's there may have been earlier ones.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[russell price]

I am fairly certain it is Hamblings, I have several very similar, did you do anything with it?

[Stentor]

On 12/12/2022 at 12:22, russell price said:

I am fairly certain it is Hamblings, I have several very similar, did you do anything with it?

I’ve sorted a suitable chassis so it is slowly progressing through my “roundtoit” pile. Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time and trouble to identify my mystery coach.

//Simon