The road to the moon and beyond to Mars.

[Jeff Smith]

The Starship was of course still full of fuel.

[Gilbert]

I now know what RUD means...

 

Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly.....

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

 

[Reorte]

Anyone played Kerbal Space Program? A lot of my launches in that look like this.

[Ozexpatriate]

4 hours ago, Legend said:

The euphoria was quite a contrast to the quiet controlled NASA Mission Control  we are used to . 

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

Have to say I found all the hand waving and cheering a little, well creepy, as well as giving a somewhat amateurish appearance.

I am assuming you speak of the crowds of employees/guests watching in the atrium area (where the commentary people were apparently located, based on the crowd noise). This wasn't the control room - where the atmosphere (visible at 49:55) with Musk in the front row, was much more subdued.

 

For an NASA analogy this would be similar to the grandstands located miles from the launchpad.

 

Just because it isn't a bunch of chain smoking men with eyeglasses, white shirts and narrow ties, doesn't mean they are amateurs.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Ozexpatriate

[Ozexpatriate]

2 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

The Starship was of course still full of fuel.

Presumably only enough to land - though that would be a lot.

 

The rocket motor dashboard was interesting - in terms of how many of them were off, even at lift off. The dashboard matched the video from below. I haven't rewatched the video but it seems like the number of motors shut down increased during flight and were not symmetrical. Lack of thrust symmetry could easily contribute to unstable flight.

 

Hopefully they can understand what caused the serious instability prior to scheduled main engine shutdown. Given the torsional forces involved in that 'death spiral' late in the flight, a "rapid unscheduled disassembly" is not a surprising result. Easy to imagine it shaking itself apart.

[Jeff Smith]

As I mentioned earlier I found the commentary rather flippant.  The female commentator kept laughing and joking about what the flight might or might not achieve.  Perhaps there is a SpaceX culture that seems to be designed to appeal to college grads for employment opportunities.  My son applied a few years ago and spoke to an acquaintance who worked there who commented that many post-grads were employed but at nominal salaries with long hours.....with many moving on........

 

Regardless, having worked in the aerospace industry for 40 odd years, and at some facilities where it amazed me that anything got to fly, SpaceX's achievements are incredible - it's evidently a culture that works!

[Ozexpatriate]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

As I mentioned earlier I found the commentary rather flippant. 

They don't have the gravitas of Walter Cronkite.

 

Most of the NASA "commentary" we remember (separate from control room dialog) was from the television networks - meaning professional television anchors. 

 

There was very little control room content in this video.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Ozexpatriate

[Ozexpatriate]

1 hour ago, Ozexpatriate said:

I haven't rewatched the video but it seems like the number of motors shut down increased during flight and were not symmetrical.

A quick look showed the total motors shut down: (times are approximate)

 

3: liftoff (+17 seconds when the dashboard appears)

4: +40

5: +1:00

6: +1:40

5: +1:52 (one of the motors reignited)

 

At +2:30 attitude stability was lost - shortly after the 6th shut down motor reignited.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Ozexpatriate
Fixed engine restart time

[Flying Pig]

Look at the exhaust plume at t+1m55s  (47m into the video) as it suddenly expands sideways.  You expect the booster exhaust to be over-expanded as it reaches higher altitudes but this doesn't look like the usual symmetric plume.  Possibly the same orange flame is also visible in the on-board shots.  The flame colour suggests oxygen-poor combustion.

 

No doubt we'll detailed analyses from the usual suspects in due course.

[Flying Pig]

6 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

They don't have the gravitas of Walter Cronkite.

 

Most of the NASA "commentary" we remember (separate from control room dialog) was from the television networks - meaning professional television anchors. 

 

There was very little control room content in this video.

 

 

As I vaguely recall we had James Burke and Patrick Moore, going absolutely mental with excitement on the BBC.

[Ozexpatriate]

1 hour ago, Flying Pig said:

Look at the exhaust plume at t+1m55s  (47m into the video) as it suddenly expands sideways

That flare is about 3 seconds after the 6th motor to shut down, reignites.

[57xx]

4 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

The Starship was of course still full of fuel.

 

It was, of course. But it was still attached to the booster and not fired up, so the complete rocket was not under propulsion and having extra loads placed upon it is what I was getting at. They no longer have any control over the object so at that point possibly either the RSO hit the button or any automated system they might have triggered the FTS.

 

Edit: and there we go:

Quote

SpaceX later said multiple engines on the 33-engine booster were not firing as the rocket ascended, causing it to lose altitude and begin to tumble. The rocket was intentionally destroyed by its self-destruct system, exploding and plummeting into the water.

SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas | AP News

Edited April 20, 2023 by 57xx

[57xx]

7 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

There would seem to be quite a lot of launch pad damage.

 

There certainly is:

Pic from LabPadre

 

Maybe it's time to invest in a flame trench and water deluge system.

Edited April 20, 2023 by 57xx

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

 

[Reorte]

14 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

I am assuming you speak of the crowds of employees/guests watching in the atrium area (where the commentary people were apparently located, based on the crowd noise). This wasn't the control room - where the atmosphere (visible at 49:55) with Musk in the front row, was much more subdued.

 

For an NASA analogy this would be similar to the grandstands located miles from the launchpad.

 

Just because it isn't a bunch of chain smoking men with eyeglasses, white shirts and narrow ties, doesn't mean they are amateurs.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant. But the way they went about it looked almost cult-like.

[57xx]

NASA Space Flight parked their uplink minivan a bit too close to the launchpad.

 

https://gizmodo.com/spacex-starship-launch-pad-damage-video-1850357836

 

Apparently around 400m from the launch!

 

 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

Yeah, that's what I meant. But the way they went about it looked almost cult-like.

It is to certain extent,they are paving the way to Mars,Musk is the man who has promised to do it,better we do this than develope more powerful weapons or build up more military might with money and earths resorces,i guess theres Lithium on Mars.

 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

13 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

There certainly is:

Pic from LabPadre

 

Maybe it's time to invest in a flame trench and water deluge system.

Its the cause of the failure,look at the damage but with nearly 17000000 lbs of thrust its a no brain thing that it needs water suppression,and lots of it,that is why i guess the tower at the cape has stopped build i would say until they seen how this barmy set up worked.

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

 

[Flying Pig]

1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Its the cause of the failure,look at the damage but with nearly 17000000 lbs of thrust its a no brain thing that it needs water suppression,and lots of it,that is why i guess the tower at the cape has stopped build i would say until they seen how this barmy set up worked.

 

 

Thing is, SpaceX are willing to suck it and see and accept the resulting failures, so they are likely very well aware how much they were pushing their luck here.  It can appear a wasteful approach though to onlookers.

[Ozexpatriate]

9 hours ago, Reorte said:

Yeah, that's what I meant. But the way they went about it looked almost cult-like.

They would mostly be employees seeing the results of years of their hard work finally come together.

 

In the 1960s NASA employees would have been afraid something would go wrong and the Government would cut their funding and fire them all. Of course they all got fired after everything (mostly and eventually) worked and the country lost interest after six successful lunar landings.

[Flying Pig]

Scott Manley's analysis:

 

 

[57xx]

58 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

Scott Manley's analysis:

 

 

I just came on to post this. Brilliant pic of the Stage 0 damage @1:55 - They could use Super Heavy to dig their Hyperloop tunnels.

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

They would mostly be employees seeing the results of years of their hard work finally come together.

Can't see myself in that position engaging in a creepy group fist wave in the air.