Rebuild of a Springside 7mm scale GWR 14xx whitemetal kit

[hayfield]

I bought a Springside 7mm scale 14xx whitemetal kit which has been built very badly (thankfully cheaply). Initially from the photos I thought a quick bit of filler may be all that was needed, but its needs the body to be completely taken apart.

 

This is the one occasion I wish the builder has used epoxy or superglue. But its been soldered, hopefully with low melt, had it been 4mm I would have tried holding it over the steam of a boiling kettle. Its both too big and would get too hot to do this

 

Any suggestions please, I see heat guns (similar to soldering irons) are available. I have also seen hand held steam appliances

 

The chassis seems quite well assembled, the body looks worse every time I look at it, how someone could have done this badly is beyond me.

 

My thoughts are that I need to heat the joints enough to melt the solder but not the castings 

Edited September 21, 2022 by hayfield

[Carnforth]

If it's been solderd with low-melt, put it in a dish and pour boiling water over it. Armed with tweezers and a small, stiff paint brush to brush away the molten solder should get you back to point A. HTH.

 

[Pebbles]

From memory previously Richard Jones raised this point some time ago.  Either whoever soldered the kit used to high a temperature, effectively also melting the white metal, or over time there is some chemical interaction taking place that effectively raises the melting point of the low melt solder.  Whatever the cause I have repeatedly encountered similar problems when attempting to desolder white metal kits.

[doilum]

High risk method if boiling water fails. Clean the joints as far as possible. Apply liberal amounts of flux paste. Have an old scalpel or two close to hand. Approach very cautiously with the biggest soldering iron you can find fully warmed/ turned up to eleven.

With a bit of luck the solder will start to go soft before actual contact is made and any contact must be momentary. When it does so try and get the scalpel into the joint. It helps if you can clamp or secure the body so as to exhert some pressure. It goes without saying that good ventilation is recommended.

The only cold approach is to find a way to secure the model and then scrape out the joint with an old Stanley knife or a Dremel fitted with an engraving tool.

[ianLMS]

I have one of these units that has a hot air gun attachment which is temp controlled. The heat gun is useful for flooding white metal into joints with no direct contact but also very useful at desoldering the joint when i screw up!!

 

Had it for 4 years and used weekly and its been an excellent tool. 

 

YIHUA 862BD+ SMD Hot Air Rework Station and Soldering Station, 2 in 1 Station with Temperature Stabilization Function and Electronic DIY Projects Rework Repair https://amzn.eu/d/b03Sm8B

 

 

[ianLMS]

Amazon sells a single hot air rework unit for a few quid less as well. 

 

Hot Air Rework Station, Soldering Station iwth LCD Digital Display, Hot Air Gun Station Kit with Digital Display SMD Desoldering-Gun Station for BGA IC https://amzn.eu/d/hldKjzM

 

Ian

[hayfield]

I just found this on eBay at £30, any good?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144177646580?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3D

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144177646580?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3D8fb2baa5789e4b41869c3293469970e3%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D264476224394%26itm%3D144177646580%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedKnnRecallV1BERT&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A1441776465808fb2baa5789e4b41869c3293469970e3|enc%3AAQAHAAABIEro4ql1SUJ1li87bKftud%2BHNR6f%2BZqZvMWaqvYIq1S%2FWkIBqj9FQDQRu6mAcNzuioXWUR932%2F68tDooavd6O6RoWZfOBZUk2sdiAjjaDEZ7vJs%2FKLO4fGmjdgO505zyYBVECXu2QxosA1HLpPC%2FLUNoN57iB72FhPqnrPfBTrTuR2n29xRXKgJu4I8decTLNWc%2FMcwBUa76tDtas13umkw6QD5i90%2FTaBiKfQBrS2EmCD9q8BOE1Erkhyd5eFoVYu65LRKON%2BKoZLf4MS3eQwDXXJiOzgIfT8iXCYMz%2Fp0yx6uIL8xoP1zdlGZcv93kh50lOc%2FmhNc46bzHmCJ%2FgXNTussYh8%2FC%2F2qHpdvPvhjoW%2B6ZtKjnYAh2xHdjYcXdGg%3D%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675&epid=22025350739

Edited September 8, 2022 by hayfield

[hayfield]

39 minutes ago, ianLMS said:

Amazon sells a single hot air rework unit for a few quid less as well. 

 

Hot Air Rework Station, Soldering Station iwth LCD Digital Display, Hot Air Gun Station Kit with Digital Display SMD Desoldering-Gun Station for BGA IC https://amzn.eu/d/hldKjzM

 

Ian

 

Thanks

Ian are any of these cheap units worth buying

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144177646580?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3D8fb2baa5789e4b41869c3293469970e3%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D264476224394%26itm%3D144177646580%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedKnnRecallV1BERT&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A1441776465808fb2baa5789e4b41869c3293469970e3|enc%3AAQAHAAABIEro4ql1SUJ1li87bKftud%2BHNR6f%2BZqZvMWaqvYIq1S%2FWkIBqj9FQDQRu6mAcNzuioXWUR932%2F68tDooavd6O6RoWZfOBZUk2sdiAjjaDEZ7vJs%2FKLO4fGmjdgO505zyYBVECXu2QxosA1HLpPC%2FLUNoN57iB72FhPqnrPfBTrTuR2n29xRXKgJu4I8decTLNWc%2FMcwBUa76tDtas13umkw6QD5i90%2FTaBiKfQBrS2EmCD9q8BOE1Erkhyd5eFoVYu65LRKON%2BKoZLf4MS3eQwDXXJiOzgIfT8iXCYMz%2Fp0yx6uIL8xoP1zdlGZcv93kh50lOc%2FmhNc46bzHmCJ%2FgXNTussYh8%2FC%2F2qHpdvPvhjoW%2B6ZtKjnYAh2xHdjYcXdGg%3D%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675&epid=22025350739

[ianLMS]

Same temp range as mine and internals are probably made by the same folks. They all seem pretty generic.  Not having tested this exact  one its hard to say on the quality but i would think it would do the job you need. How long it will last is another thing altogether! 

 

Use the small nozzle to concentrate the heat where u need and add flux as u go.  Whack it up full heat and give it quick bursts in frequent passss. Should stop the rest of the model heating up where u dont want it to.

 

Good luck

Ian

[hayfield]

I paid £87 inc postage, given a pair of Slaters drivers are £50 I thought I could add a bit of filler to the gaps (I missed the tank tops !!) and buy a few missing castings

 

 

The biggest issue is the tank tops, boiler and smokebox should be much lower.  But this is the fun of buying a £360 loco kit cheaply. I think this may be one of the worst builds ever

 

 

The tank tops should be below the tank sides, now I know us blokes do not read instructions, but surely this looks nothing like the exploded diagrams or photos

 

I am in 2 minds about buying a cheap hot air blower, I can think of other possible other uses for it and certainly I do have a bit of leeway with what I have paid.

 

I got it from one of my favourite sellers who described the build quality accurately, though I missed the tank tops (my error). Still I think its recoverable with a little effort 

[Chas Levin]

Looks well worth saving IMHO and for £30 you could add that to the cost of just this one kit and still have a good deal, even if the airgun conks out really quickly afterwards! Nice loco... 

[Stephen Freeman]

I could be wrong but I think Springside will sell you any individual castings, so if the worst happens you should probably be able to get spares.

[hayfield]

12 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Looks well worth saving IMHO and for £30 you could add that to the cost of just this one kit and still have a good deal, even if the airgun conks out really quickly afterwards! Nice loco... 

 

Chas

 

Thanks as I said in a previous post there is plenty of room to spend £30 and I have a tool that I can use for other purposes, heat shrink being one

 

My concern is about the quality, I guess its worth doing a test first on some scrap material, or even use a thermometer to check the output is similar to the readings

[doilum]

One further addition to the "big iron" approach, if possible, work from the inside.

For the record, back in the day, I successfully built a sevenscale pug and the Piercy J72 using the big iron. This proved to be much safer than the expensive low wattage irons I had purchased for the task.

Does anyone know theelting point of white metal? Could boiling water straight from the kettle be sufficient to melt the low melt 70 degree solder usually used on these kits?

Edited September 8, 2022 by doilum

[Chas Levin]

12 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Chas

 

Thanks as I said in a previous post there is plenty of room to spend £30 and I have a tool that I can use for other purposes, heat shrink being one

 

My concern is about the quality, I guess its worth doing a test first on some scrap material, or even use a thermometer to check the output is similar to the readings

Yes, I have to say £30 probably won't buy something they'd use on the large hadron collider... but OTOH cheap manufacturing etc may mean it's not too bad. And yes, definitely test first!

[hayfield]

3 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Yes, I have to say £30 probably won't buy something they'd use on the large hadron collider... but OTOH cheap manufacturing etc may mean it's not too bad. And yes, definitely test first!

 

I give up and will be the guinea pig I have just placed an order, as you say its not something I will use day in and day out. I assume it will also come in useful for other projects. I am now working in EM gauge and have a few etched brass chassis to unsolder, plus I have a S/H Slaters Flatiron in 7mm scale where the etched chassis needs taking apart as the axles are not inline with the coupling rods, about time I got this beastie running

 

Just had a thought, it might also relax plastic into being flat again ?

 

Thanks for all the input which no doubt will help others also. 

 

I will up date the thread when it arrives (I chose the cheaper eBay option rather than the faster but more expensive Amazon option)

[Chas Levin]

Small hot air guns like these are definitely the way to go with de-soldering. I work for a company that deals with pro audio kit and has a large Service Department and they use them there to desolder very delicate IC chips, some of which have 50+ tiny legs. They also have a super-duper one that has a small but powerful suction tube mounted just beneath the hot air outlet and which sucks up the molten solder as it liquifies! 

Probably rather higher spec than we need for modelling purposes where desoldering wick or a hand sprung solder sucker do the trick, but fascinating to see it in action on those chips where you have to work fast and accurately.

 

Hope the one you have coming does the job well!

[DLT]

I would try unsoldering with an iron, but start on an inconspicuous are area first, just in case!  How many or what sort of iron/irons so you have?  Start with the lowest wattage and if is doesn't work, move up.  See how it goes.

I do all my whitemetal soldering with an old 15watt Weller that was never powerful enough to solder brass.  Those are big lumps of whitemetal, so the chances of melting them are fairly low.

Best of luck, Dave.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, DLT said:

I would try unsoldering with an iron, but start on an inconspicuous are area first, just in case!  How many or what sort of iron/irons so you have?  Start with the lowest wattage and if is doesn't work, move up.  See how it goes.

I do all my whitemetal soldering with an old 15watt Weller that was never powerful enough to solder brass.  Those are big lumps of whitemetal, so the chances of melting them are fairly low.

Best of luck, Dave.

 

Dave

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply

 

I used to use Antex 25w irons and have a cheap 80w iron for heavy duty work, My system is a 75w digital solder station up to 480 c. For 4mm scale whitemetal items I dial it down to 300c and use 75c solder. I have a range of different heads from small to large

 

I think for this job I need something that is a bit more subtle where perhaps I can carefully slowly heat a large area. Had I built this myself I would know what I used where, I am hoping the person used 75c solder, 3 parts I have removed which were superglued 

 

The other thing is how the fire box, smokebox and boiler have been fitted to the tank top assembly. I may have to ease the smokebox off its mounting, then ease the boiler off the tank top and firebox. Just carefully ease the parts away from each other as I go along

[hayfield]

 

Well the item arrived this morning, as expected looks and feels what it is

 

 

I jumped in at the deep end, set it at 200c. Well massive amount of solder filling the gap between the smokebox and its saddle, the boiler came off a bit easier as the castings act as a heat sink

 

Good job its sunny, but I guess my electricity bill will jump (better this month than next

[hayfield]

 

Well the tank top was not an issue, though I think the front cab will be, lots of cleaning up will be required

 

 

The difficult part is commencing as I think I need to see how the cab interior has been fitted

 

 

Before I can access the sides I think the bunker needs taking apart

[hayfield]

 

The cab interior was superglued

 

 

Part soldered, part glued

[DLT]

Nice work, and looks like all the castings have survived well.  Mind you, with the size of those castings, they would needs a LOT of heat to melt them.

Now all you've got to do is put them together again!

 

Cheers, Dave.

 

PS  I presume the build will be on your Loco Workbench thread?

Edited September 10, 2022 by DLT

[doilum]

Impressive bit of kit.

[hayfield]

 

 

Well that ended up far easier than I thought, with no damage other than that the builder made. Probably one of the better £30's I have spent. I will let it loose on a Slaters brass chassis at some point in the future.

 

Next up is cleaning all the parts, perhaps a scrub up before I use a glassfibre brush and perhaps a bit of solder braid will be required.

 

What should I clean the whitemetal with please

 

I think I will try and buy a Springside instruction book, simply so I can see what parts are missing