Rebuild of a Springside 7mm scale GWR 14xx whitemetal kit

[hayfield]

The instruction book arrived today and I can see why these kits are so expensive simply down to the number of detail parts in the kit. Now my knowledge of these locos is limited and I think I may limit the level of details I will add.

 

First off I think I will not include ATC details, I will try to add obvious details but not every nut and bolt, given its a 7mm kit I think if I order every part that missing I may well end up with a very large bill, whilst I would like to keep it as low as possible I guess my bill will top £100. But then it still will be a cheap loco 

Edited September 15, 2022 by hayfield

[Bucoops]

3 hours ago, doilum said:

My pug and J 72 used Carr's 70 degree solder. I was given to understand that the melting point of electricians solder and white metal were perilously close. If I recall correctly in order to join brass to white metal, the brass must be first tinned with standard solder and then the join can be completed with 70degree. 

For larger parts, without any fine detail I either tin the brass with normal solder, or use paste, then use my Resistance Soldering Unit on the other side of the brass just long enough to melt the solder. Only (and I've no doubt jinxed myself now!) had one puddle, and that was an MJT bogie side which was fortunately easily replaced. I got distracted by the phone ringing :(

[ianLMS]

I used to try and solder detailing parts, but destroyed more than i can remember. I now use epoxy or superglue for small parts but still solder the bigger bits. Good enough for the likes of Mr. Tony Wright, good enough for me!!!

Edited September 15, 2022 by ianLMS

[doilum]

8 hours ago, Bucoops said:

For larger parts, without any fine detail I either tin the brass with normal solder, or use paste, then use my Resistance Soldering Unit on the other side of the brass just long enough to melt the solder. Only (and I've no doubt jinxed myself now!) had one puddle, and that was an MJT bogie side which was fortunately easily replaced. I got distracted by the phone ringing :(

I hadn't thought of the RSU. I had moved on to etched brass kits by the time they were introduced.

[hayfield]

First up I have changed the title as the topic has moved on. Rather than start a new topic I will continue with this one

 

Two things happened yesterday, firstly I chatted through the state of the kit and what was needed, the cost will depend on how many moulds will need to be spun, simply the more items required the less per item they will cost. So that is quite reassuring and he seems a very helpful person

 

Next up I did a quick audit of the missing parts, then started to read the build instructions. Well there is a lot of parts required, the steps for instance require 14 parts. So I have a list and will see how many parts I can afford

 

The kit itself is quite a conundrum the chassis whilst incomplete is extremely well built, where as the body other than the footplate was awful. Did the owner have the chassis built by someone else, or like me did someone buy a part built kit?

 

I think it was the second guess, as someone tried to fit the trailing wheel outriggers to the body not the chassis. Plus none of the holes for the hand rails had been drilled, seems either the builder did not have the instructions, or did not read them

 

I was going to completely rebuild the chassis and paint it, having starting to read the instructions the chassis needs further parts adding which I will have to order. In the meantime I can clean the wheels and axles and may have a slight pick up issue. The parts will take a few weeks to arrive, but I can make a start on a few jobs. At the same time dig out a plan or two and start to mark out and drill hand rail holes etc. The boiler and smoke box needs building and the hand rail holes need marking out and drilling.

 

Also it will give me time to build a turnout or two

[ianLMS]

The other option of course is to wait for another 2nd hand kit to become available that has all the missing parts you require. Probably a lot easier to do for a popular 4mm kit than a rare 7mm one!!

[ianLMS]

Not sure what parts you need but there are a few for a 7mm 14xx here

 

https://www.warrenshephard.com/Fittings.htm

 

Cab fittings on ebay for £20 as well but i think you have those already

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, ianLMS said:

Not sure what parts you need but there are a few for a 7mm 14xx here

 

https://www.warrenshephard.com/Fittings.htm

 

Cab fittings on ebay for £20 as well but i think you have those already

 

Ian

 

Thanks for going to look for them, I will stick with Springside as the chap has been very helpful and I might need his assistance in the future

 

 

The first job, the rear chassis retaining nut fell off from underneath the footplate, after reading the instructions I found it should have been reduced in height to fit under the floor and soldered on top of the footplate.

 

The first step in rebuilding has started. I have found a plan which I saved from a mag, I have at least 3 others in books, all sadly to 4mm scale, still its simple enough to convert to 7mm

[doilum]

If you have time to kill....

Consider making the mounting nut flush by drilling out and filing the hole to accept the flats of the nut.

[hayfield]

20 minutes ago, doilum said:

If you have time to kill....

Consider making the mounting nut flush by drilling out and filing the hole to accept the flats of the nut.

 

That might be an option I have to take as I am relying on the hole being accurate, at the other end the hole in the footplate is oblong. There is enough thickness in the footplate casting for it. Thanks a good plan B

 

I have now sourced several plans and scaled one up to 7mm scale

[hayfield]

 

After reading the instructions I have now drilled the hand rail holes

[Miss Prism]

Looks like it's neck-and-neck between this one and 1466

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Looks like it's neck-and-neck between this one and 1466

 

In about as many pieces, but they have them all, I don't

[hayfield]

 

The first side has been tacked into place, the written instructions are just a guide to building it, the diagrams seem to be the detailed part

 

 

This is something I won on eBay two days ago to keep it company. its missing a motor and gears, but I have the ones required for four + years. There are a few parts missing and only half the instructions. As you can see a big bag of parts (something to show me what's missing with the 14xx), also the slide bars are broken, I have had a dry run and it may be repairable

[hayfield]

 

The second side has been tacked in place, I don't know if this is common with 7mm kits but there is no location slots, the tanks are fitted by eye being 30 though back from the riveted edge

 

The tank top now fits inside the sides, I need to buy a new cab front as the original one is 2 or 3mm short rather than padding it out I think its worth the expense of buying a replacement 

 

 

The bunker rear is in 4 parts, again no registration slots, I will start with tacking the lower rear part in place, if all is OK I will solder up the sides and lower back to the footplate. The instructions are a bit vague as to the sequence

[Stephen Freeman]

Just one tip, I prefer 100c solder as you don't need to tin first, in fact it doesn't work well if you do.

[hayfield]

Stephen

 

Thank you for the tip, 100c solder is on my to buy list, however I find whitemetal to whitemetal solders together with 70c solder providing I use either Carrs green flux or London Road Models 12% flux. Though according to Carrs yellow flux is better for whitemetal !!  

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

Since I  ran out of EAMES flux, I have used Carrs green label, not quite as good, but very nearly. I still have a couple of sticks of EAMES low metal solder for the very tricky jobs.

 

 

[DLT]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Thank you for the tip, 100c solder is on my to buy list,

I've not tried the 100c, think I must give it a go.

[Stephen Freeman]

31 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Since I  ran out of EAMES flux, I have used Carrs green label, not quite as good, but very nearly. I still have a couple of sticks of EAMES low metal solder for the very tricky jobs.

 

 

Personally I wouldn't use green label at all, too corrosive, phosphoric acid of some variety is to be preferred, though I use a so called no-clean flux these days.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Stephen Freeman

[doilum]

The received wisdom 40 years ago was to use 70 degree solder. It could also be used as a filler if required.

[DLT]

37 minutes ago, doilum said:

The received wisdom 40 years ago was to use 70 degree solder. It could also be used as a filler if required.

And still is!  70degree is the right stuff for soldering whitemetal; I must have been using it for 40 years.

 

Quote

Since I  ran out of EAMES flux, I have used Carrs green label, not quite as good, but very nearly.

Ditto, although I find them just the same.

 

The point about the 100degree is that it bonds to brass when the 70degree doesnt, so can be used to fix brass directly to whitemetal without tinning first.

[hayfield]

46 minutes ago, DLT said:

 

The point about the 100degree is that it bonds to brass when the 70degree doesnt, so can be used to fix brass directly to whitemetal without tinning first.

 

Just been to my local model shop and obtained both 100c solder and Carrs yellow flux

[hayfield]

I have had a bit of a frustrating afternoon, firstly when fitting the left hand tank I left the gap between it and the footplate a little too wide, In the end the hot air blower came to my rescue. I got both sides and the bottom of the rear bunker nice and tight.

 

The first two attempts of fitting the 3 top parts of the bunker failed, I guess partly due to them being taken apart before and cleaned up, the problem being there are no tabs to hold them in place.

 

Anyway I firstly need to sort my self out for Scaleforum, Phil is taking the main stand to Stafford and he asked me to fly the C&L flag with a small selection of C&L parts including a glimpse of the new P4 flexitrack with the thicker bases. two very early starts for the next two days

[hayfield]

To give some idea of what I have ordered these are a couple of photos of the castings still to be fitted to the 45xx

 

 

These are a selection of castings which with the exception of the backhead castings is what I am ordering from Springside. The steps in the packet(2nd from the right) comprise of 16 castings for the 4 steps and 2 cabside steps

 

 

Just to give you an idea of the quality of small castings, even small washers have 4 rivet heads on them.

 

What I have asked for in the quote is at least 44 different numbered items, some are single others are two or more pieces. I guess in total its possibly over 100 individual items. When you see the shear level of detail these kits comprise of, plus the bulk of some items I can now understand their cost