Rebuild of a Springside 7mm scale GWR 14xx whitemetal kit

[hayfield]

46 minutes ago, DLT said:

Nice work, and looks like all the castings have survived well.  Mind you, with the size of those castings, they would needs a LOT of heat to melt them.

Now all you've got to do is put them together again!

 

Cheers, Dave.

 

PS  I presume the build will be on your Loco Workbench thread?

 

 

DLT

 

Last weekend I built a 10' long thin board for an 0 gauge test track/mini layout. Hopefully with winter coming I will have 3 small layouts in 2 gauges to keep me tinkering, the loco will be in the I am working on pile, but have the test track to play with. I have some flexitrack and lots of 7mm track building parts. But at the same time I have my small GER cameo layout and Bodmin(ish) which also has plenty of stock to be built or re-gauged.

 

I am trying to slowdown on track building, but I somehow think I might get a little busy. Especially as I owe folk the odd plan or two

 

 

[hayfield]

44 minutes ago, doilum said:

Impressive bit of kit.

 

 

Doilum

 

For £30 these days you cannot buy much, I thought it was cheap and nasty, but its far better than it looks and totally out performed my expectations. I tend to buy a few kitbuilt locos for rebuilding, I am certain it will be of use. Also it may also be useful in sweating etched sheets together in loco and coach building

 

For a start another use has come to mind in heat shrinking when building chassis or doing electrical work, but the flatiron chassis may come out of the box soon.

The next issue is where to keep it

[Nearholmer]

I made my a temperature control unit for soldering from a lighting dimmer switch, a batten-fitting holding an incandescent lightbulb, which acts as a crude indicator of how high/low it is turned-up, and a 13A socket, all screwed to a bit of wood. Very cheap, but it works a treat. Setting it for white metal involves testing temperature on scraps of the relevant solder and scraps of whitemetal from the kit.

 

Using that, I can ‘unsolder’ things too, but do be aware that the temperature at which the solder melts will be slightly higher than that at which it melted ‘first time round’.

[hayfield]

34 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I made my a temperature control unit for soldering from a lighting dimmer switch, a batten-fitting holding an incandescent lightbulb, which acts as a crude indicator of how high/low it is turned-up, and a 13A socket, all screwed to a bit of wood. Very cheap, but it works a treat. Setting it for white metal involves testing temperature on scraps of the relevant solder and scraps of whitemetal from the kit.

 

Using that, I can ‘unsolder’ things too, but do be aware that the temperature at which the solder melts will be slightly higher than that at which it melted ‘first time round’.

 

I was using Antex 25 watt irons but when I needed a bit more power I bought a 75w digital solder station, its so much better not only for brass and nickelsilver but I turn it down to 300c for whitemetal, its not only being able to control the temperature but it has the ability to quickly maintain the power if the item being soldered is acting like a heat sink

 

The hot air station is also a digital unit (for £30) and seems to act similarly 

[hayfield]

 

A pile of low melt solder scraped fron the castings during dismantling the castings

 

 

The low melt solder was heated into a pool of solder with the hot air blower

 

Less success using the solder braid to soak up the solder

 

 

The heat gun came into its own again as I gently melted the solder and scraped it away, just need to clean up some sticky residue

[Michael Hodgson]

Looks like you've been lucky and solder was low melt.

 

Had normal solder been used, the effect would have been more akin to welding and I would not have rated your chances of getting it apart without some damage that would have been difficult to repair.

 

It's probably my Scottish ancestry but I have sometimes wondered whether salvaged low-melt solder like that can usefully be reused, though I've never got anywhere trying to do so.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Looks like you've been lucky and solder was low melt.

 

I had a little poke first, plus higher melt solder usually leaves the odd pits, especially when applied by someone with poor skills

 

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Had normal solder been used, the effect would have been more akin to welding and I would not have rated your chances of getting it apart without some damage that would have been difficult to repair.

 

You are right, it would have been a nightmare and as you said damage would have occurred

 

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

It's probably my Scottish ancestry but I have sometimes wondered whether salvaged low-melt solder like that can usefully be reused, though I've never got anywhere trying to do so.

 

I have rebuilt several whitemetal kits in 4mm scale , usually not encountering too many issues providing they are decent kits to start with. Also Wills and Southeastern Finecast spares can be had from Spires, I think DJH will now sell spares

 

Its all down to price and condition. Many of the kits I buy are for less than the wheels would cost new. Now and again I get caught out, but mostly I win hands down. But the rebuilt always takes longer than building a new kit

[hayfield]

One area I was concerned about is how much power it used, whilst its very hard to calculate exactly how much power I used, if anything yesterday was much closer to what I use on average on one of our busier days. At a guess I may have used one kwh certainly no more than 2 kwh. So somewhere between 30p and 60p.

 

Probably far cheaper, cleaner and less smelly than if I had used chemicals on glue.  So my final concern about the potential cost of using it was unfounded.

 

Actually looking at my power imports the total amount I had to import was 9p during late morning and late afternoon which could have actually been a kettle boiling, so my actual loss would have been on loss of exported power, so 7.5p to 15p was my actual loss. More than made up by the hours it has saved me in time.

 

 

[hayfield]

Back to cleaning up the castings

 

 

A large lump of solder where the smokebox was joined to the saddle, filing wound be difficult owing to the rivets

 

 

I simply heated up the solder up and removed it by scraping it off with a thin 6" metal ruler, and have a pile of solder left. This method seems to remove the solder but leaves the casting intact. I set it on 200c and wait for the solder (70c) to melt. This method may not work as well on smaller castings, but the larger casting acts as a heat sink allowing a bit of time to remove the soft solder.

 

 

I noticed these was large blobs of solder in the boiler tube,  and followed up with my method of heating the solder and scraping it off, I noticed the two parts of the smokebox were not fitted properly, after a bit of heat applied its now in 3 pieces

[doilum]

Will you solder it back together or use a modern adhesive such as the cyno gel?

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, doilum said:

Will you solder it back together or use a modern adhesive such as the cyno gel?

 

I will solder it back together, as is in my opinion soldered joints are far better if done properly, I feel they are stronger and not as intrusive. As you can see can be easily undone if required. But invest in a decent solder station, buy a spare iron and have a verity of different sized tips.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like and use modern adhesives. I will use glue for some of the smaller parts

[hayfield]

 

This is an idea I copied from others on here in making a footplate building support. Simply a piece of flat board with two strips of wood strip stuck to it, the ends have been rebated to miss the buffers

 

 

The footplate fits snug as a bug, initially it will support the footplate whilst I remove the solder and crud stopping it from deforming

 

 

I am making a start on cleaning the castings and knowing what goes where and in what order

[ianLMS]

Nice job there John. Handy bit of kit and did the job nicely for £30!!

 

Will enjoy watching the re-build unfold in the next few episodes!!

Edited September 11, 2022 by ianLMS

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, ianLMS said:

Nice job there John. Handy bit of kit and did the job nicely for £30!!

 

Will enjoy watching the re-build unfold in the next few episodes!!

 

Ian

 

Thank you for bringing these units to my attention, its all your fault. I knew they existed and perhaps in the back of my mind I may have had an idea they might be useful, but your comments gave me the impetus to take the plunge.

 

I honestly thought I was buying something cheap and nasty, it may not be as well built as more expensive units but has performed far better than I ever dreamt.

 

It may be the answer to sweating two pieces of etched brass together. But certainly with 70c solder just heating it up makes scraping it off the castings so much easier as it takes time to set hard

 

Next up will be to review my selection of solders, I have about three of 4 differing types of melting points, but not 100c or something at the high end. Plus I may look at getting a small gas torch for the big jobs (though I may try the cooking one I have)

[hayfield]

Question please, what is a good method in cleaning up the castings where there is old hard/caked on flux please, I have read some household cleaners may be useful 

[ianLMS]

52 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Ian

 

Thank you for bringing these units to my attention, its all your fault. I knew they existed and perhaps in the back of my mind I may have had an idea they might be useful, but your comments gave me the impetus to take the plunge.

 

I honestly thought I was buying something cheap and nasty, it may not be as well built as more expensive units but has performed far better than I ever dreamt.

 

 

Glad it worked as well for you as mine does for me. Very handy peice of kit with several uses!!!

 

"Question please, what is a good method in cleaning up the castings where there is old hard/caked on flux please, I have read some household cleaners may be useful"

 

Answer. I use PCB flux remover to clean up all of my kits before washing them with Astonish kitchen cleaner especially before using superglue. Flux and Superglue do not work together!!!

 

A soak in the flux cleaner and possible a sonic bath in it might do the trick. My sonic bath corroded within a year so i just use a brush. 

 

Flux Remover for PC Boards (Improved formulation) https://amzn.eu/d/jjaqyQ1

 

Ian

 

[hayfield]

Just ordered from Springside an instruction book which will enable me to do a stocktake to see what's missing, it will also confirm what order I should fit the parts together

 

 

[bluestag]

I haven't built a WM kit since I was in N gauge nearly 40 years ago.    I don't miss it.

 

[Hal Nail]

On 11/09/2022 at 16:33, hayfield said:

Don't get me wrong, I like and use modern adhesives. I will use glue for some of the smaller parts

My first kit was a Springside 45xx probably over 30 years ago and, not knowing any better, I used 2 part araldite. I did carefully clean everything first and whilst admittely it has been in a box ever since so had little handling, it is still completely intact. In contrast I bought a Roxey well tank someone had soldered and I could literally pull it apart without any heat, to get back to the components!

 

That said I would always solder now.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Hal Nail

[hayfield]

7 hours ago, bluestag said:

I haven't built a WM kit since I was in N gauge nearly 40 years ago.    I don't miss it.

 

 

I get the impression in the main loco builders fall into 2 camps, Those who like whitemetal kits and those who prefer etched kits. In some ways I like composite kits where the most suitable material for the job. But there is no getting away from the sheer mass a whitemetal kit has

[hayfield]

 

The basic cleaning has been completed, some of what I thought was baked on crud was superglue

 

 

I now have to wait for the instructions, perhaps stock up om more 70c solder, then make a list of missing items

 

I think I now need to turn to the chassis, it needs taking apart, cleaning, painting and reassembling

 

Also I need to get a couple of turnouts built, thankfully I have plenty of  rail, chairs & timbers.

[Bucoops]

Looks like a great success.

 

Low melt solder - I've yet to find anything better than "wood's metal". To be used very much with caution as it has some nasties in it, but it is ideal for low melt work.

 

I get mine from Ukraine of all places - as of June or July they were still shipping it out. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202382291771 I've had two orders from them.

 

 

[hayfield]

Overtime I have built up a stock of Carrs 70c solder from part built kits, I think I will soon need to start buying some along with some 100c solder

 

As for flux Carrs green seems to work well as does London Road Models 12% does

[doilum]

My pug and J 72 used Carr's 70 degree solder. I was given to understand that the melting point of electricians solder and white metal were perilously close. If I recall correctly in order to join brass to white metal, the brass must be first tinned with standard solder and then the join can be completed with 70degree. 

[Phil Parker]

6 minutes ago, doilum said:

My pug and J 72 used Carr's 70 degree solder. I was given to understand that the melting point of electricians solder and white metal were perilously close. If I recall correctly in order to join brass to white metal, the brass must be first tinned with standard solder and then the join can be completed with 70degree. 

 

Carrs make a 100 degree solder for this job. Tinning the brass will work, but I prefer the Carrs stuff.