Hornby announce TT:120

[Ravenser]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I think that sums it up pretty well. My own feeling is that Hornby will make enough of a sales success with TT:120 to continue with it but that it may take much longer to recover their investment than they or their backers anticipate.

 

Given the size of the investment, getting out early is unlikely to be an option, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some rescheduling of the later phases.

 

I don't think TT:120 will bomb and take the company down with it (I certainly hope not), but neither do I consider it Hornby's key to a new Golden Age.

 

Whatever they claim, the extent and cost of is launch looks so big as to inevitably impact their activity in OO. It may be a smart move to reduce their reliance upon the status quo (though this is not the way I would have expected them to do it), but even a hint of "soft-pedalling" in their core business can only stimulate their competitors to target ever more, truly new product at existing OO consumers to the further detriment of Hornby's market share. 

 

John

 

 

 

My views have shifted a little on reading the brochure more closely.

 

The launch is Big-Bang , but to a degree we've been  fooled by marketing.

 

If we treat Phase1 - the launch range - as Hornby's 2022 TT new tooling programme, it amounts to 3 locos (A4, A3, 08) with 3 tenders (GN 8 wheel, LNER non-corridor and corridor) plus 4 coaches (Mk1 BCK, CK, Pullman Brake 3rd, Kitchen 1st) and some wagons and track

 

This is a perfectly manageable commitment to tooling, seen in the context of Hornby's entire new tooling programme, across Hornby OO, Hornby International, Airfix, Corgi, Oxford Die Cast , Scalectrix....

 

They will certainly get their money back on the track - code 80 is the same as Tillig , Hornby are selling it cheaper , and Mittel Europa will buy it eagerly enough. Corgi Diecast has picked up some of the development costs for the Pacifics. There is a market for trophy A4s and A3s - and Murphaph reported a special run of blue Dapol A4s in N for the German market. Dapol will do unusually small runs, but still Hornby have a presence in the Mittel Europa TT market, and might hope to shift 500 or so sets there as "trophy items" (there are a million Poles in Britain , a lot of them in ex LNER territory - and a lot of Poles have also returned to Poland over the last decade). There is a small trickle of people on here saying they have ordered a set . Prices are good (and you get 15% discount if you sign for the club).

 

I suspect Hornby may need about 5000-6000 unit sales of an item to get their money back. I can see them getting that on the items in the sets - A3, A4 , and the 4 coaches. They will also be taking the retail mark-up here. Part of that means keener retail prices, But it must also mean a lower break-even point in terms of units

 

Remember Hornby feature in a TV series , a new season of which is starting soon. I can't believe the TV people weren't aware of TT-120 after they've been inside Margate for several years. It would make a great storyline in the series. If you get a TV audience of 5 million , you only need 0.1% to buy a TT-120 set out of curiosity to sell through your sets

 

Phase 1 is not going to do any significant damage to Hornby's finances.

 

Phase 2 can be seen as the 2023  TT-120 programme. It amounts to a Stanier Pacific, a 50, 66, HST power cars 4 LMS coaches and some wagons

 

Again, not huge on its own. The LMS coaches look riskier (and appear to be selling relatively slowly as pre-orders). The 66  ought to be a banker - the East European market will ensure Hornby get their money back in the medium term, and it ought to be a cornerstone of any contemporary range. The HST will have power cars but no coaches for a little while .

 

This lot should be physically available by Christmas next year

 

Phase 3 amounts to a 9F, a 37 and a 47 on the loco front. The Mk2 and Mk3 coaches seem to be at the front end of this Phase , and are arguably where the serious financial risks start. This looks like the 2024 TT Programme .Again - manageable, though it would be a very big year in new tooling for an N gauge manufacturer

 

Phase 4 is said to be the 31, a Castle, a 57xx and a J94. Coaches are probably LNER Gresleys and more Mk1s (4 coaches) Given that none of that is likely before 2025 , I'm slightly surprised Heljan have walked away from TT-120 this morning - their 31 ought to have been available 18 months ahead of any Hornby one

 

Talk of Black 5s, Britannias, 73s, EMUS , etc etc belongs to 2026 and beyond. Anything in the small print list without a TT number is strictly speaking vapourware at this stage.

 

The Mk2s and Mk3s are available to pre-order on the website, so Hornby must be committed to tooling costs. Sorting by popularity suggests the demand for them is ok

 

Otherwise Hornby are not yet seriously exposed to costs on Phases 3 and 4. The exposure on Phases 1 and 2 looks fairly manageable. If TT-120 crashes and burns at the end of the runway, the fallout will probably be survivable , at this stage. In 18 months time it may look different

 

Yes , clearly this will draw money away from other new tooling in the Group , including OO . But the supply of new subjects for big steam in OO RTR is almost exhausted. Fury, a B16 (what that?) a Claughton or rebuilt L&Y Dreadnought, Great Bear, a HR River 4-6-0 , an NBR Atlantic. An NER Pacific ???

 

Doing A3s and A4s in TT-120 may look a better prospect for the tooling budget than any of that. A TT-120 66 certainly is.

 

One final point - TT-120 is an entirely viable commercial scale on the Continent. Therefore a repeat of the TT-3 scenario isn't going to happen. Class 66 is likely to be available for the foreseeable future, and so will track

[Player of trains]

3 minutes ago, D9502 said:

 

But where are the spare TT wheelsets? I thought the same, dip my toes by getting a Hornby TT120 class and either buy a continental modern wagon to assess the scale or scratchbuild/3D print something with a UK outline - but there's no equivalent Alan Gibson 12mm plain disc wheelsets, so where does it leave the scratchbuilding/kitbashing enthusiast? I searched for Tillig wheels but struggled to find any and what was available was too expensive IMHO.

 

Accurascale have said "no" and unless RevolutioN shrink the TEA, MMA/JNA or Cavalex the steel BBA chassis and its variants there's going to quite a wait for something decent for the 66 to pull. I'll get bored waiting for something for my TT 1:120 66 to pull and revert back to 4mm.

 

For me the thrill of initial announcement has been tempered somewhat, unless more manufacturers come onboard there's a real danger this will stall in the medium term.

 

I am dead keen to see this work, it offers the chance to build a 4mm layout with 36% added area or conversely reduce the footprint required to build a 4mm equivalent plank/cameo. Good luck to team SK - you'll need it.

 

 

 

Well there's still the 3mm society, plenty of support there for 12mm gauge components that are equally as cross compatible with this despite the .5mm difference I'm trying to get some wheels ordered now to begin prototyping kits of my own. Furthermore there are OOn3 disk wheelsets available though Dundas for their Tralee & Dingle Railway kits which are worth an experiment with, though the axles may be too long...

Edited October 13, 2022 by Player of trains

[Taigatrommel]

6 minutes ago, D9502 said:

 

But where are the spare TT wheelsets?

https://www.muellerradsatz.de/

 

They're out there, but not on the British market yet.  You could also buy Tillig wheels, Golden Valley Hobbies are the UK distributor.

 

Edit:  Just found them listed at Kernow.  https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/b/159/Tillig/5

Edited October 13, 2022 by Taigatrommel

[Hobby]

15 minutes ago, Legend said:

1. Now the dust has settled

 

2. TT120 isn't halfway between OO and N in the way Tri-ang TT was, it is actually smaller than old TT and closer to N. Therefore, is it too small for me?

 

 

1. We wish!!! 

 

2. Perhaps you need to look at the other threads on the TT120 section of the forum to answer that one. There's one which compares sizes and it is substantially larger than British N, both stock and buildings. I'd agree it's not halfway between the British scales, though it is half way between H0 and N 1:160! I can see where Simon was coming from with that comment because if he'd said HO instead of 00 not many people would have understood outside the enthusiasts.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Player of trains said:

locos need a donor chassis.

Can you get anything suitable from Continental TT (or even H0m, potentially)?

[Hobby]

4 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

Phase 2 can be seen as the 2023  TT-120 programme. It amounts to a Stanier Pacific, a 50, 66, HST power cars 4 LMS coaches and some wagons

 

Phase 3 amounts to a 9F, a 37 and a 47 on the loco front. The Mk2 and Mk3 coaches seem to be at the front end of this Phase , and are arguably where the serious financial risks start. This looks like the 2024 TT Programme .Again - manageable, though it would be a very big year in new tooling for an N gauge manufacturer

 

Phase 4 is said to be the 31, a Castle, a 57xx and a J94. Coaches are probably LNER Gresleys and more Mk1s (4 coaches) Given that none of that is likely before 2025 , I'm slightly surprised Heljan have walked away from TT-120 this morning - their 31 ought to have been available 18 months ahead of any Hornby one

 

Talk of Black 5s, Britannias, 73s, EMUS , etc etc belongs to 2026 and beyond.

 

I'm not convinced that your dates can be set in stone like you seem to think they are. Hornby have said that they've been developing the range for 5 years, that's a lot of time just for what has been announced at the initial launch. I feel that the later phase stuff will come a lot quicker than you anticipate.

 

But like you, I don't know, just guessing.

[Dunsignalling]

35 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Blimey, you really hate Hornby, don't you!

No, I don't, as I've stated elsewhere, I own well over a hundred of their OO locos and dozens of coaches that came in red boxes. The vast majority have entirely satisfied my expectations and I continue to purchase more as and when they introduce new things that tally with my modelling interests. 

 

I actually think TT:120 is quite a good concept, even if I am too old and too deep into OO to consider adopting it.

 

All that said, I consider that Hornby has been very unimaginative in that, apart from the size, there has been no innovation whatsoever applied to this range, and the "greatest hits" alone will not be enough to save it IMHO.

 

Hornby's pre-eminent position in OO has been eroding for some time and they had to do something. Whether this is the right thing, and whether it works, remains to be seen. I am sincerely worried that, because the economic goalposts have moved so far during the development of the range commenced, success or failure will not be decided by the product itself. We could easily lose Hornby altogether (at least in its present form) if TT:120 doesn't take off. 

 

Some seem to think the new scale will sweep all before it, but SK's interview suggested that Hornby are primarily relying on attracting newcomers who are interested in taking up the hobby but not in either OO or N. Another point was that they don't expect (want?) too many OO users to switch as that might do them as much harm as good. The $64,000 question is how many train-free households fit their profile and how many just aren't interested in model trains of any size? 

 

John

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[britishcolumbian]

14 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

The couplings are standard TT:120 ones as used by Tillig etc I believe.

They are. And they're well tested, they work fine and make a rake look superb all coupled up, buffer to buffer as they should be.

[BRTrainz]

Looking at tweets on the product line on Twitter, I noticed someone pointing out that Hornby seems to have pretty glaringly messed up the counterweight positions on the A3/A4 wheels.

Was seriously considering preordering the A4 set but might wait to see if it's fixed on actual production.

Edited October 13, 2022 by BRTrainz

[Hobby]

Thanks for the clarification, John, but the tone of your earlier reply suggests otherwise! But I will take the above at face value! :)

[MartinRS]

16 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said:

This is actually interesting... because Tillig tend to feel that 1:120 belongs entirely to them; they'll accept small-scale producers, but don't like big competition - they even managed to make Roco get out of TT once, Roco only returned to the scale after Piko managed to make a go of it. So if British 1:120 lasts to 2024 we might see something British in Tillig's 2025 new releases, simply because Tillig can't keep themselves out of a market if it's big enough.

I'm still sat on the fence over whether to try out TT120 or not. I don't have an axe to grind about Hornby, though I don't have a layout, just a modest collection of new unopened OO items, including some Hornby products. Most are untested.

 

Hornby might have missed an opportunity. They could have opened up new markets if they had weighted their diesel locos to those listed in the https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/173691-tt120-diesel-locos/  thread, especially as they are selling on-line and the fall in the value of the pound since Brexit. I hope their venture turns out well. I'm still undecided about TT120, but am drawn towards it, even after Heljan have dropped their TT120 plans.

 

As for Tillig taking-on Hornby, the exchange rate favours Hornby.

[whart57]

20 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Given the money Hornby must have thrown into TT:120, they won't have much of a war chest left to target OO competition.

I get the impression from the video that Simon Kohler reckons the 00 market is saturated. I would agree with that. You may still be waiting for that Barry Railway 0-8-0 or whatever but if someone makes it how many would they sell?

 

20 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

My suspicion is Hornby will want us to buy everything from them in the new scale. Excluding the modelling press from advertising, and retail trade from sales also means implies a reliance on paid-for promotion outside the hobby. It also implies that those without a stake in TT:120 (i.e., everybody but Hornby) stand to gain nothing from even mentioning it unless directly asked.

 

Absolutely, and on the video Simon Kohler states he wants Hornby to be a "one stop shop". And damn right too. Hornby are aiming this at the guy who fancies a model railway, doesn't know much about railway modelling, maybe has kids to share the toy with and a missus to negotiate domestic square footage with. I apologise for sounding a bit sexist with that last point but it is still the reality in most relationships.

 

The last thing someone like that wants is a shop guy - or someone in a club or on a forum like this - stroking their chin saying "well you can buy that loco from Hornby but Dapol did a better one you might be able to find on eBay, track comes from PECO naturally, and you'll need some wagons. Now was it LMS or GWR you were interested in ......."

 

Hornby and Triang were one stop shops in the past, and that's how people managed a successful entry to the hobby back in the heyday.

 

The other thing Hornby realise with kids is that they will only get the chance to have a loco or something similarly expensive twice a year if they are lucky (Christmas and birthday). But smaller things like station buildings, bits of track, the odd wagon are potentially pocket money buys or holiday treats from aunts, uncles and grandparents. Those buyers need things kept simple as in "if it's Hornby TT:120 off their website it will be fine".

 

As I've said elsewhere, Hornby aren't targetting the experienced railway modeller. Not yet anyway

[Player of trains]

Indeed that's definitely the market they want to cultivate leading into the initial waves, I will still lament that there's nothing suitable to kitbash in the interim, I wonder how well a Belgian inspired type 10 pacific will fit on the A3...I have had that idea rattling round my noggin for a while. Darn this conversation is making me revaluate some of my earlier predilections to whether I change or not.

[HonestTom]

21 minutes ago, Weeny Works said:

Ditto: Exactly my opinion. Wonder if we're the only ones?

I am certainly thinking in terms of "wait until it comes out and see what other people say." Or at least, wait until the reviews come out. It looks nice, I'm tempted, but it's a big commitment to start anew. I have nothing against Hornby, but nor am I their cheerleader.

6 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

No, I don't, as I've stated elsewhere, I own well over a hundred of their OO locos and dozens of coaches that came in red boxes. The vast majority have entirely satisfied my expectations and I continue to purchase more as and when they introduce new things that tally with my modelling interests. 

 

I actually think TT:120 is quite a good idea, even if I am too old and too deep into OO to consider adopting it.

 

All that said, I consider that Hornby has been very unimaginative in that, apart from the size, there has been no innovation whatsoever applied to this range, and the "greatest hits" alone will not be enough to save it IMHO.

 

But the question then arises, what innovation should they make? The "greatest hits" may be a cliché, but they also represent perennially popular prototypes with a wide sphere of usage.

[MartinRS]

11 minutes ago, whart57 said:

I get the impression from the video that Simon Kohler reckons the 00 market is saturated. I would agree with that. You may still be waiting for that Barry Railway 0-8-0 or whatever but if someone makes it how many would they sell?

 

 

Absolutely, and on the video Simon Kohler states he wants Hornby to be a "one stop shop". And damn right too. Hornby are aiming this at the guy who fancies a model railway, doesn't know much about railway modelling, maybe has kids to share the toy with and a missus to negotiate domestic square footage with. I apologise for sounding a bit sexist with that last point but it is still the reality in most relationships.

 

The last thing someone like that wants is a shop guy - or someone in a club or on a forum like this - stroking their chin saying "well you can buy that loco from Hornby but Dapol did a better one you might be able to find on eBay, track comes from PECO naturally, and you'll need some wagons. Now was it LMS or GWR you were interested in ......."

 

Hornby and Triang were one stop shops in the past, and that's how people managed a successful entry to the hobby back in the heyday.

 

The other thing Hornby realise with kids is that they will only get the chance to have a loco or something similarly expensive twice a year if they are lucky (Christmas and birthday). But smaller things like station buildings, bits of track, the odd wagon are potentially pocket money buys or holiday treats from aunts, uncles and grandparents. Those buyers need things kept simple as in "if it's Hornby TT:120 off their website it will be fine".

 

As I've said elsewhere, Hornby aren't targetting the experienced railway modeller. Not yet anyway

I don't think Hornby need to target the experienced railway modeller. Fora such as this are doing it for them. Once products are on the (virtual) shelf the RM press will review their products. Then there is Hornby Magazine.

[Trainnoob]

On 11/10/2022 at 22:08, Tim Dubya said:

 

I think the sets are very reasonably priced.

 

 

 

Off course everyone has different views. I find these price tags a bit steep for a smaller scale, the price for me makes no economic sense to move from 00 down to TT. There are 00 scale sets that are cheaper then this.

 

However I feel like this is a good step from Hornby, instead of just trying to compete with others Hornby seems to be attempting uniqueness.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Trainnoob

[Dunsignalling]

21 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

I am certainly thinking in terms of "wait until it comes out and see what other people say." Or at least, wait until the reviews come out. It looks nice, I'm tempted, but it's a big commitment to start anew. I have nothing against Hornby, but nor am I their cheerleader.

But the question then arises, what innovation should they make? The "greatest hits" may be a cliché, but they also represent perennially popular prototypes with a wide sphere of usage.

 

I've no objection to the greatest hits, just the greatest hits and nothing else! It seems like an opportunity at least partially missed. Maybe I just expected more from the No.1 name in trains?

 

Neither do I object to the idea of Hornby diluting their commitment to OO. There are, after all, plenty of others willing and able to take up any slack in the model railway market that services my wants. 

 

The real crunch point will be if and when TT:120 reaches a point where Hornby can stop making OO train sets, but I don't envisage that happening until long after I've shuffled off this mortal coil.

 

John

Edited October 13, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Joseph_Pestell]

On 10/10/2022 at 13:13, farren said:

There’s a thing called the internet, you may have hard of it. All the youngsters bang on about it. You want young blood in the hobby you go where they are. 
 

 

The problem is that you can't actually deliver anything over the internet.

[APOLLO]

I think most here are forgetting that the new Hornby TT120 range is primarily a TT (Table Top) train set system, where most buyers will happily run Class 66's with BR A3.s etc etc all together on an un-prototypical layout. A bit like the old Tri-ang TT3 range. Back in the 60's I ran anything and everything TT3 they made, all together (along with my Continental pacific on a Britannia chassis, and continental tank loco on a jinty chassis). Good fun. 

 

Folks need to lighten up, and either accept what is on offer or simply don't buy it. 

 

Heljan is sadly out, but the TT120 market will remain wide open, especially to advanced 3D printing. As I read above someone is already developing a mineral wagon. Good luck with this. I keep reading 3D is the future, well here is a golden opportunity.

 

Brit15

[Dunsignalling]

2 minutes ago, Trainnoob said:

Off course everyone has different views. I find these price tags a bit steep for a smaller scale, the price for me makes no economic sense to move from 00 down to TT. There are 00 scale sets that are cheaper then this.

Why should that be?

 

Production costs (to a comparable level of detail) will be similar and cost of the materials that go into making a loco is a pretty insignificant part of the whole.

 

Some OO models are cheaper because the tooling has long since paid for itself, in TT:120 it's all yet to be recovered.

 

John

[009 micro modeller]

25 minutes ago, Taigatrommel said:

They're out there, but not on the British market yet.  You could also buy Tillig wheels, Golden Valley Hobbies are the UK distributor.

Or use N/009 on longer axles.

 

1 hour ago, Player of trains said:

I feel the early stage of the 1:120 lineup could easily befall what befell Dublo and they never made a proper small loco (the R1) until near the end. If there was say a Fowler 4F or a J39 in this range to begin with I would genuinely switch over as it would provide an ideal donor chassis to begin working from to make a Victorian and pre grouping style 0-6-0, so far all we have is a vague promise of a 57xx and that 's it.

Although I tend to think a lot of 00 modellers have perhaps become a bit too reliant on RTR, I can completely understand that people may not wish to commit to a new scale long term if there’s a chance that the RTR and other trade support may not be there in the longer term. When I got into 009 I knew there was virtually no RTR and that what was available was actually Continental H0e, so I knew what I was getting into. Since then the RTR available in 009 has increased, but personally I wouldn’t be unduly affected if it went away again at this stage. This is because it’s a scale that is also very well supported by smaller kit manufacturers, track and wheels are available commercially and of course N gauge chassis and 00 scenic bits are extremely easy to get hold of - I probably wouldn’t have been happy getting into 009 if it was the kind of scale where absolutely everything, including loco chassis and basic trackwork, must unavoidably be built from scratch.

 

Obviously I’d hope that people who start off as purely RTR modellers would gradually learn to build kits and make stuff themselves (if that’s what they want, of course), but that’s not really the same as starting off in a scale thinking that the RTR availability will be excellent and will increase over time, but then finding that it actually withers away after a few years and that you have to make everything yourself.

[TT-Pete]

45 minutes ago, Taigatrommel said:

Other TT track ranges are available from Tillig and Kuehn, the latter not really that easy to get in the UK.

 

Up to now I've been using Tillig as it is compatible with both my Continental 1:120 and UK 1:101 locos and stock using old Tri-ang mechanisms (and even Rokal, although with some modification to the wheel flanges) I had been experimenting with Peco HOm 12mm gauge pointwork, but will now try out their new 1:120 range and adopt that if satisfactory.

 

[Ravenser]

To those who can see no advantage of TT-120 over OO : the advantage is, of course, the much smaller size

 

Hornby's own website is making a big visual play of the smaller size, and of the potential it opens up

 

Their own list of benefits is here Hornby's "TT benefits"   I'm not saying I necessarily agree with every point, but this is what they are selling

 

This is Hornby's answer to their lack of an N gauge range. its real competitors are Farish and Dapol

 

N gauge is a commercial success, yes : but only a limited one, especially in Britain. N's market share is gently declining across the world - and in Britain its market share of about 10% is roughly half of N gauge's market share everywhere else. For whatever reason.

 

So - if N gauge isn't quite cutting the mustard, and you have a stake in TT in Mittel Europa , why not give TT a go in Britain. If N gauge is just a bit on the small side , why not 1:120?

 

I summarised the German article on market shares in modelling here (courtesy of murphaph)

Quote

O gauge has been rising strongly in the US and elsewhere. Meanwhile N gauge market share has been in steady though usually modest decline 

 

But Britain sticks out with N . Only 10% of the market , whereas in other countries N has been over 20% of the market   (28% of the US market in 1991)

 

According to their figures, Britain was 85% 4mm scale in 2009. In Germany HO was 73.7% (a modest increase in share from the 90s) and in the US HO was just 58%

 

So - despite more acute housing and space shortages than either the US or Germany, Britain has a much lower market share for "the smaller scales" than anywhere else. Germany supports 3 small scales (Z, N, TT) , Britain only one. But still N's British market share is barely half its share everywhere else.

 

At that point I can see some logic to Hornby's position. 4mm's market share in Britain is bizarrely high. There could be 10-15% of the market that logically should be chosing a scale smaller than 4mm , but clearly doesn't want N. Why not offer TT-120 as a new small scale, more attractive than N?

 

Arguably 10-15% of the British market should be in a much smaller scale than 4mm, if you judge by  HO/N market shares everywhere else - but it is stuck in OO because of the percieved inadequecy of N

 

There is no great scope for Hornby trying to carve a niche as 3rd player in British N 

 

Talk about TT-120 cannibalising Hornby's OO sales misses the point. If that 10-15% of the market shifts from OO to N , they will be lost by Hornby to Farish and Dapol (plus Revolution etc). But if Hornby can get them into TT , it may pick up spend that would have gone to Bachmann, HJ or Dapol (or Accurascale, Calvalex, hattons, Rails) . The space shortage is getting worse . There are quite a few folk who buy stock but have no space for a OO layout . They wait.... and wait... or join a club and try to use the club layout

 

TT-120 is demonstrably a product for those who don't have space for OO. Some are not even in the hobby, for that reason. Some don't have a layout, but own stock. Some might be willing to drop a scale .

 

Meanwhile much of OO RTR manufacturers' money comes from the glamourous new tooling releases. But OO looks almost quarried out in terms of good subjects . In 3 years time it will be worse. Most new stock on the railway is now multiple units. These are prohibitvely long and prohibitively expensive to do in OO

 

Chase the old money of the retired with an O gauge range? Or a modern small scale range for those of working age ?

 

Hornby need to show why you should choose TT-120 over N - not why you would take it over OO. It's the comparisons with N that matter.

 

And they don't need to overtake N for market share. They just need to build a viable niche

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Ravenser

[Nearholmer]

Well, I made a bad decision (again) today.

 

First thing, I forward ordered the Hornsby 08, having loose plans for a layout using that, and the Heljan 31 as the core.

 

I just discovered that Heljan have dumped the idea, so now it looks as if I could have a shunting loco, plus a distant dream/promise/aspiration of a small main haulage diesel (50 and 66 far too big and modern).

 

Bngger!

 

 

[TomE]

6 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

N gauge is a commercial success, yes : but only a limited one, especially in Britain. N's market share is gently declining across the world - and in Britain its market share of about 10%

Source for those figures? 
 

Bachmann have previously stated the ratio of N to OO sales is around 20%. 
 

Tom.