Hornby announce TT:120

[JohnR]

3 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

He said traders so I thought it was a meeting of model railway enthusiasts rather than villagers! ;)

 

Hardly a major gathering, though in such a location. 

[Hobby]

So what! I was simply interested in the answers to the questions I asked, I'm not bothered about how many were there! Not sure why you even queried it!

[rob D2]

Any trader isn’t going to be enthusiastic for TT. There’s nothing in it for them, esp the high ticket stock items and why bother stocking the track ? Probably not much margin or demand 

[AY Mod]

5 minutes ago, Hobby said:

So what!

 

You're so abrasive at times. The point being it would hardly be a representative cross section of the wider trade if a couple of small traders at a village hall event.

[britishcolumbian]

5 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Any trader isn’t going to be enthusiastic for TT. There’s nothing in it for them, esp the high ticket stock items and why bother stocking the track ? Probably not much margin or demand 

There's other producers whose product could be sold, and there will be still more. Traders saying no now are just shooting themselves in the foot, as in future when more TT is available, people will remember oh, Smith's Trains said no TT, I'll find somewhere else to shop.

 

Conversely a local shop here brought in Peco kits and track to stock on the shelves... did anyone ask for it to be brought in? No. Have they sold any? Yes...

 

If you build it - and market it properly! - they will come.

[JohnR]

12 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

You're so abrasive at times. The point being it would hardly be a representative cross section of the wider trade if a couple of small traders at a village hall event.

 

Exactly the point I was attempting to make. Given the location, it was obviously a small, local event, that would have had maybe a couple of small local traders - maybe even traders who wouldn't qualify to be supplied by Hornby in OO, let alone TT (ie no physical store). 

[Porfuera]

23 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Any trader isn’t going to be enthusiastic for TT. There’s nothing in it for them, esp the high ticket stock items and why bother stocking the track ? Probably not much margin or demand 

 

There are plenty of box shifters stocking and discounting the Peco TT:120 products, so the margin must be there.

 

Also, my nearest model shop is discounting to the same level as the box shifters, but I didn't buy mine from them. Why? Because they'd sold out when I eventually got around to wanting to buy some.

 

Based on that I'd disagree with everything you've said above.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Porfuera

[Phil Parker]

4 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said:

There's other producers whose product could be sold, and there will be still more. Traders saying no now are just shooting themselves in the foot, as in future when more TT is available, people will remember oh, Smith's Trains said no TT, I'll find somewhere else to shop.

 

Except that Traders saying no now may well change thier mind if the scale takes off. Right now, they are being asked to take a leap into the unknown - they know their market and may want to bide their time for a bit.

 

As for people "remembering" Smith's Trains said no to TT, only the hard-core enthusiast will know, and they would have to be really determined not to buy from there if Smith's Trains later sees an opportunity and starts stocking the stuff. Besides, there aren't likely to be other places to shop if we mean physical shops.

[britishcolumbian]

1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

As for people "remembering" Smith's Trains said no to TT, only the hard-core enthusiast will know, and they would have to be really determined not to buy from there if Smith's Trains later sees an opportunity and starts stocking the stuff. Besides, there aren't likely to be other places to shop if we mean physical shops.

I'm not talking about the hard-core enthusiast. I'm talking about Mr Jones who got a train for his kids goes into his local shop, gets told no, so looks online. He'll remember his local shop said no, and likely won't bother looking there again, and will turn to look elsewhere.

[Phil Parker]

3 hours ago, natterjack said:

For example, I have a least four thoroughly researched loco/train designs which could be set up for 3D production in a matter of weeks and none of which is likely to see  'commercial. light of day any time soon. The size of TT120 suggests a bright future for personal and cottage industry production not too distinct from that which supported 7mm fine scale for many years.

 

Just as with 7mm a major key to a flourishing 'DIY' sector will be the availability of mechanisms and wheels- on the latter 3D could also be the answer with only a range of metal tyres and axles being the real necessities.

 

You could look at what has been happening in 3mm scale for many years. Plenty of niche cottage industry products (Can Parkside be considered niche?), and they already have the wheel and mechnism situation sorted. The problem is, a lot of TT120 enthusiasts want to ignore the 3mm world, pretending they are launching out to a new frontier, when looking around would pay dividends.

[Phil Parker]

Just now, britishcolumbian said:

I'm not talking about the hard-core enthusiast. I'm talking about Mr Jones who got a train for his kids goes into his local shop, gets told no, so looks online. He'll remember his local shop said no, and likely won't bother looking there again, and will turn to look elsewhere.

 

You assume Mr Jones will never darken the door of his local shop again once told that they aren't stocking TT120. He'll never go in and buy paint, or wire, or trackpins or scenic items. If he does, he might notice if the shop decides TT120 has taken off that it's worth tieing up some money in stock and it's hanging on the wall.

 

Besides, at the moment, if he goes in to the local shop, he will be told no, because Hornby are only selling direct.

[AY Mod]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

Except that Traders saying no now may well change thier mind if the scale takes off. Right now, they are being asked to take a leap into the unknown - they know their market and may want to bide their time for a bit.

 

There is some evidence of a degree of caution from a couple of traders who err on the conservative rather than the speculative side who had pre-ordered some Peco stock but reversed that once Hornby made it clear they were going direct. They knew they'd see less add-on sales and were reluctant to support a market sector they were being excluded from.

[JohnR]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

You assume Mr Jones will never darken the door of his local shop again once told that they aren't stocking TT120. He'll never go in and buy paint, or wire, or trackpins or scenic items. If he does, he might notice if the shop decides TT120 has taken off that it's worth tieing up some money in stock and it's hanging on the wall.

 

Besides, at the moment, if he goes in to the local shop, he will be told no, because Hornby are only selling direct.

 

And where did Mr Jones get his TT:120 train from? Direct from Hornby, who told him that it was only available from them.

 

Mr. Jones would have to be some kind of idiot to think despite all that, he could just walk into a model shop (maybe having to drive a considerable distance) to pick up something to go with it. 

[PaulRhB]

7 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said:

I'm talking about Mr Jones who got a train for his kids goes into his local shop, gets told no, so looks online. He'll remember his local shop said no,

If it’s like my two local shops they’ll probably explain why they aren’t at present keeping it in stock but will order it within a week from Peco. 
Their main business is local not internet sales and there’s just not enough margin without big ticket items to go with it to give it shelf space over lines that do sell well. 
My local doesn’t stock HOm,  O gauge or 16mm Peco track but have got it in for me and if anyone asks they always offer to order it. 

[Hobby]

26 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

You're so abrasive at times. The point being it would hardly be a representative cross section of the wider trade if a couple of small traders at a village hall event.

 

12 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Exactly the point I was attempting to make. Given the location, it was obviously a small, local event, that would have had maybe a couple of small local traders - maybe even traders who wouldn't qualify to be supplied by Hornby in OO, let alone TT (ie no physical store). 

 

I asked a simple question. The only reason I might have sounded abrasive (frustrated may have been more acurate) was the the points John raised had no relevance to the questions I asked and he persisted with that line. I was simply interested in answers to my questions, not a debate on the size or make up of the gathering!

 

6 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

They knew they'd see less add-on sales and were reluctant to support a market sector they were being excluded from.

 

Isn't that cutting their noses off to spite their face, though! A sale is a sale, regardless of what it is. Luckily my local shop is stocking the Peco TT track and I will be using him rather than the box shifters, for some reason Peco have only given him LH points so were waiting for the RH ones!

[PaulRhB]

7 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

They knew they'd see less add-on sales and were reluctant to support a market sector they were being excluded from.

Agreed, several in the shop and show trade I know are just a bit fed up with Hornby changing agreements round after orders to introduce tiers, several years of failing to deliver ordered quantities and now being excluded from what they see as ‘the future’. Why would they go out of their way to take a risk on shelf stock when Peco are quite happy to supply them as required without requirements for stocking all ranges and window displays either? 

Model trains aren’t iPhones a large proportion of the market still likes to see them first. I suspect our international members here rely on bought unseen far more because there aren’t local stockists but they tend to be more net savvy already and able to trawl forums for pics and are usually already enthusiastic rather than the ‘new’ customers Hornby see for TT. 
I got started in US HO by seeing it in Victors, I wouldn’t have bought it without seeing the quality in my hand at first. Similarly I knew what to expect from Tillig in HOm as I had seen their other models in HO. It’s a lot to spend sight unseen and pop in any modelshop and see how people cluster around cabinets where stock is out of the box 😀

[AY Mod]

13 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Isn't that cutting their noses off to spite their face, though!

 

If so it's not doing one of them any damage at the moment as I was discussing, on Friday, their forthcoming expansion of premises.

[natterjack]

26 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

The problem is, a lot of TT120 enthusiasts want to ignore the 3mm world, pretending they are launching out to a new frontier, when looking around would pay dividends.

 

This enthusiast for one is not ignoring the 3mm  supply potential, but things would be greatly helped if tyres alone could be offered to allow for wheels bespoke to TT120 (as exists in N gauge/2mm scale).

 

There is plenty of scope for cross-over mutual support which in the longer term would be of mutual benefit to the 3mm field.

[Hobby]

12 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

If so it's not doing one of them any damage at the moment as I was discussing, on Friday, their forthcoming expansion of premises.

 

I'm glad he's not my local, then.

[PaulRhB]

28 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Isn't that cutting their noses off to spite their face, though! A sale is a sale, regardless of what it is. Luckily my local shop is stocking the Peco TT track and I will be using him rather than the box shifters,

Not really as any good shop will instantly say we can order it for you if they have a Peco account. My local only started stocking a few bits of the code 83 range once he knew there was a steady demand by doing orders. People knew he stocked Peco so they asked and now he keeps a couple of different points and flex track on the shelf and anything else he will pop in the next weeks order. 
They aren’t going to get the ‘new’ folks who walk in to extend a Hornby set but then they’re probably going to want Hornby setrack anyway not flex code 55. The modellers will wait a week happily as you are for the other points 😉

[britishcolumbian]

55 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

Besides, at the moment, if he goes in to the local shop, he will be told no, because Hornby are only selling direct.

He'll be told no because they're not bothering to stock TT products from other manufacturers, either... that's the point of this present discussion.

[Hobby]

They can, but if they have it in stock they've got an instant sale and the chances are higher of repeat business, especially if they purchasors are new to modelling and/or TT. Gives them chance to chat to the person and establish a relationship. That's not to say they couldn't do that without stock, just it will look better with it in the stock. 

 

No right or wrong approach,  just down to the individual shop owner.

[AY Mod]

18 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I'm glad he's not my local, then.

 

2 minutes ago, Hobby said:

No right or wrong approach,  just down to the individual shop owner.

 

Make your mind up.

[Hobby]

I just said it's down to the shopkeeper whether they wanted to stock TT, their choice, the first comment was that I was glad my local stocked it unlike the one you know. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Hobby
Spelling

[britishcolumbian]

48 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

My local doesn’t stock HOm,  O gauge or 16mm Peco track but have got it in for me and if anyone asks they always offer to order it.

That's the way a shop *should* be run. Is it always? No. I've encountered shops in the past (now long gone, surprisingly enough...) that when asked to do special orders that weren't from Walthers or another of the big distributors they dealt with regularly, they were all muttery and grumbly that it's too much of a bother, too difficult, blabla.

 

Anyways what investment/loss is it to stock say a few of the Peco kits, say two or three each... don't need a huge stock, and if someone comes in and asks, it's there, and for the rest you can explain the situation to them. It doesn't take a lot of money or effort, and then you win over a potentially life-long customer.