Hornby announce TT:120

[Michanglais]

I'd never heard of this service where a third party holds items for you. Maybe I should look into it too. I've currently got the IC livery HST power cars on pre-order but I haven't pre-ordered anything else for fear of it/them arriving at different times and having to pay shipping multiple times (tho, as has been pointed out, customer services seem willing to help with that, that being said, if the items were a month or more apart, would they still be so accommodating?). 

 

There are quite a few coaches due (-ish) I'd like to pre-order but I'm taking my chances and hoping they don't immediately go out of stock, I suspect I'm not the only one waiting with bated breath (I'm also likely to have moved by the time they're out - I presume there's a way of changing the billing/delivery address on pre-orders but I'm not sure I want to take the chance...).

 

[Porfuera]

2 hours ago, Michanglais said:

I'd never heard of this service where a third party holds items for you. Maybe I should look into it too.

 

I've never used one either but on that thread I linked to previously they are referred to as shipping agents (or maybe freight forwarding agents?) so a search for that should give more info. I guess you'd need one located in the UK to minimise postage at that end. Someone here will probably have more info.

 

2 hours ago, Michanglais said:

(tho, as has been pointed out, customer services seem willing to help with that, that being said, if the items were a month or more apart, would they still be so accommodating?). 

 

I have the impression (although I don't know why!) that it is only when separate parcels arrive on the same day (and/or are despatched on the same day?) that Hornby provides a refund. I've had separate parcels arrive in the same delivery myself but at that time postage was free so I didn't need to try and make a claim. Again, maybe someone here knows more or has had a different experience.

 

Edited January 24 by Porfuera

[J-Lewis]

10 hours ago, Porfuera said:

I've had separate parcels arrive in the same delivery myself but at that time postage was free so I didn't need to try and make a claim. 

I didn’t realise Hornby ever offered free postage except for on orders over £50?  Did you have free postage on a lower value order?

[Porfuera]

3 hours ago, J-Lewis said:

I didn’t realise Hornby ever offered free postage except for on orders over £50?  Did you have free postage on a lower value order?

 

No, you are correct about the £50.

 

My pre-order was: one of each of the 12T tanks plus one brake van and these totalled more than £50 and at that time the postage was free for everything in that pre-order - so it didn't matter that I received two wagons on one day (in one box) and two wagons a couple of days later (in two separate boxes on the same day).

 

However if I were to repeat the pre-order today then I would have to pay £3.95 postage for each wagon and if the wagons were delivered in the same way then I guess I would be able to claim back two lots of £3.95 - but at that time I didn't have to.

 

Edited January 24 by Porfuera
Changed "order" to "pre-order"

[J-Lewis]

My ESSO tankers have arrived.  Hornby are not combining pre-orders so everything is shipped separately (at £4 per package).  Not ideal.

 

The model is fantastic.  Beautifully detailed, includes seperate air hoses, and very detailed under frame.

 

 

[J-Lewis]

More pictures 

[Jeff Smith]

Changing serial numbers may be tricky.....

[J-Lewis]

11 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Changing serial numbers may be tricky.....

I expect Railtec will have some transfers out for these soon.  :)

[Porfuera]

3 hours ago, J-Lewis said:

My ESSO tankers have arrived.  Hornby are not combining pre-orders so everything is shipped separately (at £4 per package).  Not ideal.

 

The model is fantastic.  Beautifully detailed, includes seperate air hoses, and very detailed under frame.

 

I'm jealous! They took payment for my three on Monday morning but I have heard nothing since then.

 

I thought that the delay might be due to them taking the time to combine all pre-orders for the same address into a single parcel but from what you say I guess that isn't the case.

 

Hopefully the delay is an indication that there are enormous numbers of these wagons being mailed out.

[J-Lewis]

42 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

I'm jealous! They took payment for my three on Monday morning but I have heard nothing since then.

 

Hopefully the delay is an indication that there are enormous numbers of these wagons being mailed out.

As long as you’ve ordered three identical wagons they will be sent together.  Otherwise it will be £3.95 per wagon.

 

I had a dispatch email about this order yesterday from CCL who seem to be the shipping partner for Hornby.  So once you get that e-Mail you should have your wagons next day.

[Porfuera]

1 hour ago, J-Lewis said:

As long as you’ve ordered three identical wagons they will be sent together. Otherwise it will be £3.95 per wagon.

 

Not if you pre-ordered last February. I guess they were losing too much on postage to continue with that.

 

I think they will start losing a lot of their direct sales to shops if they can't sort out this combined postage on pre-orders of different items.

 

Edited January 25 by Porfuera

[J-Lewis]

15 hours ago, Porfuera said:

 

Not if you pre-ordered last February. I guess they were losing too much on postage to continue with that.

 

Are you sure you’ve not been charged postage?  They just add it to the shipping invoice on my orders, it’s not shown during the pre-order process, the postage is shown as £0.00 in the preorder total but £3.95 is added on shipping.

[Porfuera]

2 hours ago, J-Lewis said:

Are you sure you’ve not been charged postage?  They just add it to the shipping invoice on my orders, it’s not shown during the pre-order process, the postage is shown as £0.00 in the preorder total but £3.95 is added on shipping.

 

Positive. For pre-orders it used to be that if you paid £50 or more in total (that is £50 paid after TT:120 Club discount, hobby points, etc had been taken off) then you would get free shipping on everything.

For example, I ordered one of each of the TTAs in early February (i.e. all three in the same basket) and I was not charged shipping on any of them because the total for the three came to over £50 - so I have three invoices like this for the three TTAs:

 

 

And looking at my credit card account I've been charged three lots of £17.84 so postage hasn't been applied retrospectively.

 

I made further pre-orders on 22nd March last year and that is when I noticed that shipping was being applied to any invoice that came to less than £50.

 

Presumably Hornby discovered that pre-orders were getting sent out more or less individually (rather than all together in a single parcel) and that the cost of the extra p&p was eating into their profits, so they started charging postage on any invoice that came to less than £50. That's bad news for buyers if they only want one or maybe two of each new wagon.

 

Unless Hornby fix this then I think a lot of people people will stop pre-ordering from Hornby if they're having to pay £3.95 per wagon and will start going to retailers instead. Or they will wait until what they want is actually in Hornby's warehouse or they will pre-order sufficient wagons or carriages to get free postage - but not everyone can afford that.

 

Imagine if you wanted one of each of the six HAAs - you could end up paying nearly £24 postage for just six wagons.

 

However I guess there will always be a core of buyers that want their wagons as early as possible and they will pre-order from Hornby in order to get them first.

 

Edited January 26 by Porfuera

[Mike Harvey]

For all my pre-orders of Arnold wagons for the past few years and including deliveries in December 2023, the default has been that postage is in the pre-order invoice for items under £50. When several pre-orders arrive at the same time they are normally sent in one package. A phone call to Hornby then generates a refund to my credit card of the individual postage charges where the parcel total exceeds £50.

 

Bit strange that this seems to be different for some TT:120 pre-orders.

Edited January 26 by Mike Harvey

[Porfuera]

12 minutes ago, Mike Harvey said:

For all my pre-orders of Arnold wagons for the past few years and including deliveries in December 2023, the default has been that postage is in the pre-order invoice for items under £50. When several pre-orders arrive at the same time they are normally sent in one package. A phone call to Hornby then generates a refund to my credit card of the individual postage charges where the parcel total exceeds £50.

 

Bit strange that this seems to be different for some TT:120 pre-orders.

 

It is good to know that you've managed to get refunds - IIRC you're the first person I remember hearing about first-hand, everything else has been hearsay. I don't have any personal experience of doing that because so far all my orders have qualified for free postage but soon that may change.

 

It is just that the Hornby pre-orders generally don't seem to be sent out in a single package but seem to arrive separately over a number of days.

 

I would assume that Arnold operates out of Margate and use the same warehousing/logistics company as Hornby, which is CCL Logistics. Maybe TT:120 generates high volumes of orders in short bursts and that makes it difficult for the logistics company to co-ordinate the pre-orders and to get them all sent out as single packages.

[Les1952]

7 hours ago, Porfuera said:

 

It is good to know that you've managed to get refunds - IIRC you're the first person I remember hearing about first-hand, everything else has been hearsay. I don't have any personal experience of doing that because so far all my orders have qualified for free postage but soon that may change.

 

It is just that the Hornby pre-orders generally don't seem to be sent out in a single package but seem to arrive separately over a number of days.

 

I would assume that Arnold operates out of Margate and use the same warehousing/logistics company as Hornby, which is CCL Logistics. Maybe TT:120 generates high volumes of orders in short bursts and that makes it difficult for the logistics company to co-ordinate the pre-orders and to get them all sent out as single packages.

 

My Arnold loco that arrived today was packaged exactly the same as my last Hornby order, and the same tape was used throughout.

 

Les

 

[natterjack]

19 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

My Arnold loco that arrived today

Just out of interest, is your Arnold loco fitted with 'traction tyres'? There has been some discussion as to whether these remain a European market preference. If so the forthcoming Class 66 presumably will be featuring wheel options dependent upon target market.

Edited January 26 by natterjack

[GenericRMWebUsername]

22 minutes ago, natterjack said:

Just out of interest, is your Arnold loco fitted with 'traction tyres'? There has been some discussion as to whether these remain a European market preference. If so the forthcoming Class 66 presumably will be featuring wheel options dependent upon target market.

That is correct. From the Class 66 product pages:

 

"All variants of the Class 66 lighting have been tooled for both UK and European variants. The headlights will be prototypical for your model. All the Class 66 models have 12 [wheels] for the current pick-up and both bogies are motor driven. The UK variants of the Class 66 will not be fitted with traction tyres. European variants will be fitted with one traction tyre per bogie."

 

From the product info section:

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/gbrf-class-66-co-co-66789-british-rail-1948-1997-era-11-tt3020m

[natterjack]

33 minutes ago, GenericRMWebUsername said:

"All variants of the Class 66 lighting have been tooled for both UK and European variants. The headlights will be prototypical for your model. All the Class 66 models have 12 [wheels] for the current pick-up and both bogies are motor driven. The UK variants of the Class 66 will not be fitted with traction tyres. European variants will be fitted with one traction tyre per bogie."

Okay, I've got this- so we are looking at two different systems; one with pick-ups from all wheels (up to 12 for a co-co) and a traction tyre equivalent of 8 pick-ups.

Much as this might seem dancing on a pin head but given the mechanisms will be equal it does make for an interesting opportunity as to how the different approaches will actually perform in like to like comparison. The real challenge will be on gradients.

 

[GenericRMWebUsername]

2 hours ago, natterjack said:

Okay, I've got this- so we are looking at two different systems; one with pick-ups from all wheels (up to 12 for a co-co) and a traction tyre equivalent of 8 pick-ups.

Much as this might seem dancing on a pin head but given the mechanisms will be equal it does make for an interesting opportunity as to how the different approaches will actually perform in like to like comparison. The real challenge will be on gradients.

 

Good point! I'm betting the traction tires are actually going to make a significant difference on haulage and gradients. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if they handily outperform the British models in both metrics. Not that it makes traction tires good or desirable necessarily. Like all things they are a tradeoff. I probably lean towards the no traction tires myself, because it represents one less point of failure/maintenance while being more realistic. Of course, I'd probably be saying something different if I were modeling the American Rockies or Swiss Alps!

 

In November 2022 Simon mentioned that "there are seven Class 66 variants in the works, with two specifically aimed at the European market." Hopefully we see them announced soon! 

Edited January 27 by GenericRMWebUsername

[Michanglais]

3 hours ago, GenericRMWebUsername said:

Good point! I'm betting the traction tires are actually going to make a significant difference on haulage and gradients. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if they handily outperform the British models in both metrics. Not that it makes traction tires good or desirable necessarily. Like all things they are a tradeoff. I probably lean towards the no traction tires myself, because it represents one less point of failure/maintenance while being more realistic. Of course, I'd probably be saying something different if I were modeling the American Rockies or Swiss Alps!

 

In November 2022 Simon mentioned that "there are seven Class 66 variants in the works, with two specifically aimed at the European market." Hopefully we see them announced soon! 

 

It's interesting, this traction tyre debate. How they're seen as selling points in Europe but not elsewhere. As far as I know, the class 66s don't run in particularly mountainous territory in mainland Europe but I could be wrong. I guess some with layouts having gradients or helixes would prefer traction tyres. 

That being said, Kato's N for the North American market avoids traction tyres but that being said, you could just add an extra loco given that North American trains tend to have multiple locos per train. 

I've got one N loco that has lost its traction tyres and it still hauls long trains fine (tho on the flat and not on gradients). Clearly, with the traction tyres missing, it has even less 'wheel contact' because of the grooves left where the traction tyres would be. On top of which, it's a Bo-Bo. 

Makes you wonder whether they're just a feature that Europeans have got used to and they would find it odd if they weren't fitted.

 

[Les1952]

9 hours ago, natterjack said:

Just out of interest, is your Arnold loco fitted with 'traction tyres'? There has been some discussion as to whether these remain a European market preference. If so the forthcoming Class 66 presumably will be featuring wheel options dependent upon target market.

 

Of course it is fitted with traction tyres.  Continental users have a penchant for using a helix to put storage sidings below their layouts.  Indeed the recent Stuttgart show had two eight-foot helices to lift a running track over a gangway with layout modules running either side..

 

One without tyres is no good to me- my UK Bo-Bos can climb the banks on Bregenbach im Schwarzwald (which are less steep than the prototype) but are lucky to pull two 4-wheeled wagons.

 

Link to Wordpress pic of one of the helices.

 

 

Les

Edited January 27 by Les1952
added link to pic

[Hobby]

Even with traction tyres you'll still get some pick-up from the tt'd wheels as the flange will still come into contact with the rail from time to time?

[Les1952]

8 hours ago, natterjack said:

Okay, I've got this- so we are looking at two different systems; one with pick-ups from all wheels (up to 12 for a co-co) and a traction tyre equivalent of 8 pick-ups.

Much as this might seem dancing on a pin head but given the mechanisms will be equal it does make for an interesting opportunity as to how the different approaches will actually perform in like to like comparison. The real challenge will be on gradients.

 

 

The traction tyred wheels on Continental locos are fitted with pickups and there is no effect on the overall electrical performance- they crawl through insulfrog points with ease.  My locos are Bo-Bos rather than Co-Cos.

 

Les

[Les1952]

1 hour ago, Michanglais said:

 

It's interesting, this traction tyre debate. How they're seen as selling points in Europe but not elsewhere. As far as I know, the class 66s don't run in particularly mountainous territory in mainland Europe but I could be wrong. I guess some with layouts having gradients or helixes would prefer traction tyres. 

 

 

 

I saw one in Verona, and it would have crossed the Alps to get there.....

 

Les

 

It was in EWS livery at that......