Modelling without Malaise - aka "Period" Pains

[Lacathedrale]

One deep seated prejudice I have that routinely issues forth, is when it comes to time periods and epochs.

 

Reading any assessment of the Victorian period is going to be fraught with compromise at such a complex and bewildering era of change, but while within that epoch there were variances of confidence and progress - railway bubble, the Crimean and Boer wars - it was in general a halcyon period for the railways and their attendants. One could reasonably extend this Indian summer through towards 1914, where the pre-grouping railways were supreme; the motorcar a mere curiosity. Bright(er) liveries, clean(er) stations, a lack of holistic accountancy which meant branch lines and experiments which were never profitable were not widely seen as a detriment. A riot of Victorian and Edwardian engineering - horse drays and chaldrons, baulk road and wooden cladding.

 

In every period after this however, it feels like the railways were in retreat with the forced Grouping and the massive uptake in the use of internal combustion and loss of traffic, the war, the mothballing of stations and lines and running into the ground of everything. This was followed by an out-and-out rout with an even more calamitous nationalisation and crippling debt, a political environment that ruined them with almost everything torn away.

 

I find it very hard indeed to be inspired by such melancholia, I can appreciate weathering, broken roof tiles, rusty scrap heaps, and truncated lines intellectually, but to me it feels like an old nag that's being dragged along from funfair to funfair - the goodness, vitality and strength are gone. Yes, it has the shape of the horse and you can heave someone onto it - but the light is gone out of its eyes.

 

I would be very interested to hear any thoughts on this - do you disagree? Do you have a different cut-off point like diesel- or nationalisation? 

[The Johnster]

I wonder if the pre-1914 railway was such an unremittingly wonderful place.  It could certainly look the part, elegant locos polished to the nines, carved mahogany and lace antimacassars in first class, and a public service ethos that allowed uneconomic branches to be seen as feeders of traffic to the profitable main lines.  By the late 1880s they were pretty safe still an expanding network.  
 

But there is another side to this coin.  Slow trains, cold, damp, draughty 4-wheeled coaches, flea-ridden upholstery or bare boards in third, poor timetables, infrequent services, and greedy profit-taking owners.  In 1906 the Taff Vale returned the highest dividend on ordinary shares ever achieved by a British limited liability company, and trousered the lot in true laissez-faire style; no improvements forthcoming for passengers, freight customers, or the long-suffering coal trade to the insanely congested Cardiff docks; trains backed up to Pontypridd or beyond and ships paying dock fees waiting for their cargoes, not that I’ve got much sympathy for the shipowners either, bunch of ******* pirates…

 

London commuters had just as miserable a time of it as they do now, and we are still suffering from the failure to re-invest the profits that everybody thought would last forever.  After WW1, the world was fundamentally broken economically and only saved economically by WW2.  Railways suffered the same deprivations and hardships as everyone else between the wars, and should have been nationalised in 1922 IMHO.  There is nothing inherently wrong with nationalisation and many countries have had very effective nationalised railways for years.  It was nationalised BR, running on a shoestring, a target of comedians, newspaper criticism, and at probably it’s lowest point in terms of morale, that came up with the HST, the fastest train in the world that could operate on conventional tracks, and at the time the only, I repeat only train in the world that provided 125mph running with airconditioned, air suspension, double-glazed tinted window stock without pre-booking or supplementary fares, unlike the TGV or  Shinkansen; of course, this being Britain, as soon as the HST turned things around and began to relieve the gridlocked misery of the motorway network and railways began to be  profitable, it was given back to the profit takers, and we’re back to square one. 
 

Come the revolution, brothers…

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by The Johnster

[298]

I suppose you could consider it an era as there was a definite shift change, but I won't model Graffiti. One of my layouts era ought to have most of the stock and a few locos plastered with it on every reachable surface, but I don't like it so won't be representing it.

[Steamport Southport]

Whatever floats your boat. I grew up in the 1970s and it was probably the most boring era in existence, everything was the same. Electrics, units, everything BR Blue and Grey. A few locomotives that were virtually all the same classes depending on where you were. Despite that it was a fascinating era in some ways, and I can see why some model it.

 

 

My problem with many earlier model railways is they aren't very authentic. They end up being a pastiche of what the railways were really like with every cliche under the sun.

 

Too much wanting one of everything rather than what the railways would be like in real life. Especially those that are using RTR. As an example you would see more plain and ordinary black engines than all those brightly coloured passenger engines. Four wheeled carriages being the norm when most had gone on the bonfire years earlier to be replaced by bogie coaches.

 

If I see one more SECR layout with one each of a P, H, C, D and Terrier all in ornate liveries pulling Bachmann Birdcages and a random selection of RTR wagons I'll scream. Pretty as they are. Where are all the SER and LCDR locomotives which lasted well into BR days?

 

Same goes for other railways that are popular with the RTR manufacturers. GNR, LBSC, GCR, etc. One of everything that is available RTR as long as it's the right livery. 

 

Surprisingly it seems the GWR and MR seem to escape that. Maybe because there are enough "normal" engines available and almost anyone can build a Ratio/Slaters kit.

 

Or railways with a selection of locomotives from everywhere in the UK that wouldn't have got within a hundred miles of each other is my other bugbear. Often not even from the same era.

 

Not a dig at modelling standards or personal tastes, they just leave me a bit cold and are too "samey", and I am mainly talking about exhibition layouts rather than people at home. When it's done right, pre-grouping layouts are fantastic.

 

 

To me the really interesting eras are the ones of change.

 

1920 until about 1930. 

The post war era 1945-1955.

BR Transition Era.

BR green to blue.

 

 

Jason

[CKPR]

I model the local railways of the area I grew up in, west Cumbria [ or Cumberland as was] but in two time periods. Firstly, 1967-1981, the period in which I became aware of and interested in the local railways and which encompasses seeing Black 5s at Workington and the WCML electrification reaching Carlisle. The second period is 1908-1923, covering the latter years of the original pre-grouping companies, particularly the M&CR, who adopted their distinctive green & white coach livery in 1908.I would say that my interest is in the old companies per se rather than any specific era and the various companies were still discernable even into the early 1980s despite the grouping, nationalisation and, more pertinently, the modernisation of the 1960s & 70s. I have to admit that although still a rail user, I've no interest in the railways after the early 1980s and certainly not in the present day franchises run by bus companies and other countries' state railways as to my mind, sectorisation and privatisation drew the curtain on the old railways.

Edited November 12, 2022 by CKPR

[burgundy]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

My problem with many earlier model railways is they aren't very authentic. They end up being a pastiche of what the railways were really like with every cliche under the sun.

 

Too much wanting one of everything rather than what the railways would be like in real life. Especially those that are using RTR. As an example you would see more plain and ordinary black engines than all those brightly coloured passenger engines. Four wheeled carriages being the norm when most had gone on the bonfire years earlier to be replaced by bogie coaches.

 

If I see one more SECR layout with one each of a P, H, C, D and Terrier all in ornate liveries pulling Bachmann Birdcages and a random selection of RTR wagons I'll scream. Pretty as they are. Where are all the SER and LCDR locomotives which lasted well into BR days?

 

Same goes for other railways that are popular with the RTR manufacturers. GNR, LBSC, GCR, etc. One of everything that is available RTR as long as it's the right livery. 

 

Surprisingly it seems the GWR and MR seem to escape that. Maybe because there are enough "normal" engines available and almost anyone can build a Ratio/Slaters kit.

 

Or railways with a selection of locomotives from everywhere in the UK that wouldn't have got within a hundred miles of each other is my other bugbear. Often not even from the same era.

 

Not a dig at modelling standards or personal tastes, they just leave me a bit cold and are too "samey", and I am mainly talking about exhibition layouts rather than people at home. When it's done right, pre-grouping layouts are fantastic.

 

Jason

Surely the point is that those fantastic pre-grouping layouts do not just happen all at once. Most of us have followed a path that begins with RTR of some kind, that stimulates our curiosity about ways in which it can be improved. This leads you down a slippery slope of researching, modifying, kit bashing and, ultimately, scratch building.

One of the aims of LB&SCR Modellers' Digest is to show what can be achieved and also to suggest how you can move beyond the basic RTR reasonably quickly. Hopefully the Digest will have given a few modellers a gentle shove down that slippery slope!

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Nearholmer]

People build models of what strikes a chord with them, and although broad trends emerge from that, possibly the strongest being nostalgia for “my formative years”, people are moved b a huge variety of different places and times, which, thankfully, results n a great variety of layouts. 
 

Yes, the preeminent position of railways as a form of transport began to be eroded from the start of C20th, but they took an unconscionable long time to die, and then staged a pretty good partial resurrection, so if you can’t bear to model anything but positivity, look carefully and you will find positive bits at any date. A good place to start is by looking at electrification, because no railway ever electrified, or was built new as an electric operation, when it wasn’t on the up. There has always been a smell f fresh paint somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Nearholmer

[ardbealach]

For me the Seventies BR Blue period was a depressing period.  I am well aware of how popular this period is now for modellers.  

 

For me the blue was how I felt after the sudden end of steam in 1968 when this dull corporate double arrow image enveloped everything - even the Vale of Rheidol steam locomotives. (Alisdair)

[Peter Kazmierczak]

1972 was as close to 1922 as it is to 2022. Making me feel very old...

[F-UnitMad]

If people feel like the OP about British railways, why not look beyond these shores? 

No different to modelling Pre-Grouping, to my mind - after all it has been said that "the Past is a foreign country - they do things differently there" (or words to that effect).

It's partly why I model US trains - freight is king and the modern equivalent of the Pick Up Goods still exists. Far better than contemplating the derelict ex-goods yards & lines around where I live, and wishing for past glories....

[HonestTom]

For me, dilapidation is part of the fun. I like modelling grubby, run-down environments. Weathering is one of my favourite aspects of the hobby and a railway on the verge of closure gives me the excuse to run all sorts of outdated rolling stock in all sorts of liveries.

Edited November 2, 2022 by HonestTom

[Northmoor]

On 01/11/2022 at 14:44, Steamport Southport said:

Or railways with a selection of locomotives from everywhere in the UK that wouldn't have got within a hundred miles of each other is my other bugbear. Often not even from the same era.

 

These locos (one of each, natch) are usually on shed at a depot considerably larger than the freight yard at a station in a "small town somewhere in England".

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I like to model a period when I was around (even if only 5 years old or so) and try to capture the "everyday" scene of an area I have some connection with. 

To take Northmoor's point above about an engine shed, I'd much rather see one populated with (say) three 8Fs and  a couple of 4Fs,  than one containing one each of a Royal Scot, Jubilee, Black Five, Crab and a Patriot.

[MJI]

I can understand the BR Blue era for modelling, firstly it was a long time period mid 60s to late 80s, a wide range of loco classes. and a lot of variety on stock.

 

 

Also there is still a lot of resource on what was about.

 

Pre grouping is just showing history and things you would not remember, just history

 

Pre Blue era BR is common with the over 60s and anyone wanting to recreate their books of photos.

[The Johnster]

If I anylise the reasons I chose the location and period 1948-58 for Cwmdimbath, set in the Tondu Valleys of Glamorgan, they come out as follows, in order of importance:-

 

1) South Wales Valleys, my main interest area and relevant to some of my childhood memories of the following decade.  I am a Cardiff boy (Cardiff born & Cardiff bred an' wen I dies I'm Cardiff dead/They'll build a little plot in Splott in memory of me) but Mother was a Valleys girl and we visited rellys up there regularly, then by the mid to late 60s I was going up there on my own or with the lads looking for NCB steam, something that continued for the next decade and a bit more.  It sort of got into my blood.

 

My existing stock at the time the layout was started was relevant to this choice of area as well, though the importance of this was very quickly diminished by the collapse of Mainline panniers and 56xx caused by the usual suspects, so they had to be expensively replaced with Bachmann items, which have given very good service and are superb runners.  My ancient Airfix 61xx, numbered as 4145 which is a 5101, broke it's rh slidebars as they always do and was replaced with a later Hornby, which also broke it's slidebars in a fit of pique because I bought a current Hornby.  I spent a lot more on locos than was the orignial intention (wonder if anyone else has done this...), but luckily none of the new ones were at RRP. 

 

2) 1948-58, partly before my birth in 1952.  Chosen because of the variety of liveries from this transition period; I could run locos and stock in 1942-5 austerity and 1945-7 late GW, 1948/9 transitions, 1949-56 unicycling, and ferret and dartboard, and have managed to include some transition anomalies from photographic evidence such as 4557 in plain totemless black.

 

3) Cwmdimbath, a real location though my railway, colliery, and village are ficticious, because I wanted to establish the geography in relation to the rest of the railway with which it had to interconnect for timetabling purposes.  My original idea was Abergwynfi but I didn't have the space to model the colliery or even a fy representing it beyond the terminus, and some goods facilities, even if they are basic, are essential (for me, anyway) to incorporate general mechandise vehicles and a pickup.  I could have had a go at Nantymoel, but bottled the prototype buildings; Valleys BLTs where the branch actually ended at a set of buffers at the station were rare, as in almost all cases the railway continued past it to serve a colliery further up the valley,  Even at Nantymoel, the railway actually passed beyond the station by a few yards to accommodate the run around headshunt.

 

4) Tondu allocated locomotives follow automatically from the above considerations, as does passenger stock.

Edited November 13, 2022 by The Johnster

[Reorte]

On 01/11/2022 at 22:29, ardbealach said:

For me the Seventies BR Blue period was a depressing period.  I am well aware of how popular this period is now for modellers.  

 

For me the blue was how I felt after the sudden end of steam in 1968 when this dull corporate double arrow image enveloped everything - even the Vale of Rheidol steam locomotives. (Alisdair)

 

I was born in the 70s so I can't really remember 70s BR Blue but I do 80s. For me it's the perfect example of nostalgia versus actual preference - it's the railway of my childhood, so I have quite a bit of nostalgia for it. But I agree that the look of it is dull - I don't actually like it much, and prefer looking earlier in time. But it does mean I "like" seeing a loco nowadays in BR Blue, entirely for nostalgic reasons, or a layout set in that period (although I can frequently enjoy a good layout no matter when and where, even of things I dislike in the real world, a good layout is something to appreciate no matter what it's of IMO).

[The Johnster]

I thought that corporate blue was very smart, so long as it was clean (which of course it often wasn’t).  The full yellow ends looked hideous, though one is loth to criticise something that undoubtedly saved lives among those whose jobs took them on to or near running lines. 

[rogerzilla]

Late 50s/early 60s was quite forward-looking, as British Railways splurged on hundreds of new green diesels in many different shapes and sizes.  A lot of them turned out to be hopeless (classes 15, 16, 17, 21, 22, 23, 28, 30, etc) but they were interesting.  By the 70s and 80s, only the ones that (mainly) worked were left, and that was much more dull.

Edited December 2, 2022 by rogerzilla