Kof II diesel shunters..

[Re6/6]

Rob, How about going Italian with one of these?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsZvy25b68w Turning off the sound is recommended!

 

I've got one for the planned Swiss Industrial layout. OK, it's an Italian loco but hey..... it will be used for the non-energized tracks in the warehouse yard. It's a lovely little thing!

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Re6/6

[Bernard Lamb]

Not a DR or DB Kof but a privately built cousin by Deutz from 1935 DMZ-122 R.

It worked in a local ballast quarry.

 

 

The quarry burnt down in 1942. It would make a good cameo if just a small section was modelled. It would be quite a challenge to build the whole complex.

Photos from 1937.

 

 

Bernard

[Bernard Lamb]

17 hours ago, railroadbill said:

 

 

It seems to me that a micro layout with a few structures/buildings to represent just a part of a steel works or chemical/fertiliser plant, factory, warehouses, GDR era Soviet weapons dump oh perhaps not that one,  

 

 

Why not? You could have the klein lok going through the gate witha wagon into the forest as a mini layout.😀

Bernard

 

[jonhall]

6 hours ago, Re6/6 said:

Rob, How about going Italian with one of these?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsZvy25b68w Turning off the sound is recommended!

 

I've got one for the planned Swiss Industrial layout. OK, it's an Italian loco but hey..... it will be used for the non-energized tracks in the warehouse yard. It's a lovely little thing!

 

 

 

Are these general purpose loco's? I have always associated them with turntables, where the lack of shock absorbance (no buffers) is less important than the ability to minimise length, either on the turntable, or in one of the stub tracks.

 

Jon

[Re6/6]

I assume that they were (then again I might be wrong!). These are what I associate with turntable movements of long stock.

 

 

[ian]

2 hours ago, jonhall said:

Are these general purpose loco's?

 

They would not normally roam far - their low speed meant that they tended to be confined to the area that they worked but that said they could be found moving any sort of wagon or postal vehicle.

 

Long strings of coaches where beyond them - they didn't weigh enough to shift them.

Edited November 8, 2022 by ian

[EddieB]

12 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Did any of these end up in the old Czechoslovakia ? ........as in running on the CSD.

 

Rob

Yes, they were class T200.2 (running nos. T200.201-T200.222, with T200.220 used twice).  There were variations and not all of the class members were of the "classic" Köf (diesel) or Kbf (petrol) type - e.g. T200.209 was a Deutz petrol shunter of similar type illustrated up thread (going to Mödling in Austria after the war).

 

My Czech isn't up to looking up details, but they appear to have lasted in service on CSD until 1962, with some ending up in industrial service.

 

Livery appears to have been red/yellow (similar to the T212.0 class). 

Edited November 8, 2022 by EddieB

[EddieB]

11 hours ago, Re6/6 said:

Rob, How about going Italian with one of these?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsZvy25b68w Turning off the sound is recommended!

 

I've got one for the planned Swiss Industrial layout. OK, it's an Italian loco but hey..... it will be used for the non-energized tracks in the warehouse yard. It's a lovely little thing!

Italian only in the sense of a Rivarossi model, because the prototype comes from East Germany.  They were designated EL16 or ASF ("Akkuschleppfahrzeug" = battery towing vehicle) and used mainly for moving larger locomotives around depots or at industrial sites.  Production ran to over 500 machines, with around a quarter exported to Poland.  (Before Rob asks, three went to Czechoslovakia, but I don't know where or how classified).

 

The upright Breuer tractor (mobile convenience?) also originated in Germany and was designed to allow stock to ride up on the sloping chassis, thus adding adhesive weight.  Badoni in Italy and Tampella in Finland built some under licence.  

[Gordonwis]

2 hours ago, EddieB said:

Italian only in the sense of a Rivarossi model, because the prototype comes from East Germany.  They were designated EL16 or ASF ("Akkuschleppfahrzeug" = battery towing vehicle) and used mainly for moving larger locomotives around depots or at industrial sites.  Production ran to over 500 machines, with around a quarter exported to Poland.  (Before Rob asks, three went to Czechoslovakia, but I don't know where or how classified).

 

The upright Breuer tractor (mobile convenience?) also originated in Germany and was designed to allow stock to ride up on the sloping chassis, thus adding adhesive weight.  Badoni in Italy and Tampella in Finland built some under licence.  

 

 

Here's one in 'regionalised' former DDR territory

 

 https://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/akkuschlepplok-asf-1-genannt-auch-231859.jpg

 

 

[Johann Marsbar]

Side on shot of a DDR one on the turntable at Saalfeld in October 1991.....

 

[NHY 581]

Morning all. 

 

Nice to see things trundling on and thank you for the information. 

 

I've found that Piko did a Kof in CSD livery, ref no. 52058 but this seems to have been out of production for some time. 

 

 

Images by Piko. 

 

I've also found this page.......

 

http://www.kzmhk.eu/Zmlok/zahrmlok.htm

 

 

Lots of options for little engines.........

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by NHY 581

[NHY 581]

Re the CSD Kof II, a rough sheep translation of the relevant bit of the text is......

 

"These machines reached us during the war, when the Wehrmacht used them throughout the occupied territories and then left them in different parts of Europe during the rapid retreat. After 1945, some 27 of them (Encyklopedie žel. - mot.lok.2) were handed over to ČSD and several others remained at the sidings where they were assigned during the war. Other machines assigned to the ČSD were gradually transferred to the workshops or to the sidings. They were withdrawn quite late - many ladting until the seventies."

 

 

If anyone more knowledgeable than I can expand on that..........

 

 

Rob. 

[Bernard Lamb]

Can anybody identify this machine?

After the  regular Kof eventually failed it was used to transfer wagons from the DR station yard into the munitions dump.

The usually working method, as very few DR staff had clearance to go on site.

The photograph is from the early 1980s. 

A very rare photo as most movements took place at night and trains were operated by a group of people known as "The dark men". Even the Stasi did not know about these people and their movements. The secrecy was due to the nature of the cargo. Nuclear missiles.

Bernard

 

 

[Johann Marsbar]

6 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Can anybody identify this machine?

After the  regular Kof eventually failed it was used to transfer wagons from the DR station yard into the munitions dump.

The usually working method, as very few DR staff had clearance to go on site.

The photograph is from the early 1980s. 

A very rare photo as most movements took place at night and trains were operated by a group of people known as "The dark men". Even the Stasi did not know about these people and their movements. The secrecy was due to the nature of the cargo. Nuclear missiles.

Bernard

 

 

 

Looks like one of these......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NHY 581]

Further to my last, I've now discovered this, from Arnold albeit in TT....

 

 

 

"As part of the post-war reparations, ČSD was handed over at least 27 pieces of Kö category loco tractors, to which ČSD assigned the T 200.2 series. In the beginning, the locomotives were mainly used for movement in the workshops, but they were gradually sold off to the sidings, where they eventually reached their end of life. T200.202, originally Kö 4408 DRG – the model for the model, reached the state of ČSD on 5/6/1945. The processing of the model falls in the period of 1947, when it was part of the Tábor heating plant. The photo shows the locomotive in the second half of the 1950s in the Nymburk workshops"

 

 

 

The Memsahib is from Tabor so an instant connection with this little chap.....

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[NHY 581]

This is also pricking my interest.....

 

Image by Roco

 

 

"Several (perhaps 7) of these Dutch shunting locomotive came to Czechoslovakia with the German army during World War II. After its end, they remained here, the only machine  allegedly renamed was T232.002 .

By 1949, they were all returned with other material to Holland."

 

[Allegheny1600]

Hello Rob,

The Piko locomotive you pictured earlier is a Kof I and I think their model is of a previous generation (code for not such a great runner!).

Note the much shorter bonnet in comparison with the Kof II.

The V15/BR101 pictured by Johann is available in H0 from Brawa and is exquisite - running quality, details, weight etc.

I’ve never had a Sik (goat) which is the Dutch shunter by Roco but I have recently acquired a new Roco Kof III or BR335, complete with sound, lights, digital couplings, stay alive - it’s quite amazing, all that in something three inches long! If you pick it up off the track with sound and lights on, they stay on for nearly 30 seconds which is enough time to put it in it’s box.

John

Edited November 9, 2022 by Allegheny1600
Add picture

[rekoboy]

Returning to the earlier comments about the Reichsbahn ASF - Hornby-Arnold had/has the ASF in TT. I bought one in industrial livery a couple of years ago because it is so cute - although I have no real use for it, unless, of course, I get to build that working diorama....... Its pulling power is surprisingly good, in spite of its size, but a layout needs live frogs if it is to run well. The real ASF has spread right across the DB AG's network since the DB and the DR were merged in 1994, and the most appealing ones are in Intercity livery! See photo from the German Wikipedia!

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by rekoboy

[Ian Morgan]

Still too big?

 

[Guest Jack Benson]

On 07/11/2022 at 01:19, Gordonwis said:

 

 

The ultimate 'isolated' use of a KoF was after the division of Germany, whereby a factory situated on West German (BRD) territory was left marooned without a connection to a DB railway because the line on which the factory was located criss-crossed the intra-German border, so the railway line north and south  of where the factory was was situated on DDR territory. Notwithstanding , they transported a KoF tractor to the factory so that it could shunt wagons around internally.

This was the Tettau branch that ran from the Frankenwaldbahn that was the old Berlin-Nurnberg route. A Culmeyer was used between the glassworks at Tettau and Steinbach am Wald, the summit of the line between Pressig (BRD)-Probstzella (DDR). The trailer was laboriously hauled through the forest by a very powerful prime mover.

 

 

 

 

At the glassworks the full Tdgs was unloaded, an empty loaded onto the Culmeyer for the return journey. The Kof was used to move the Tdgs up and down the remains of the line.

 

 

The above image is the factory and the remains if the Tettau branch.

 

Btw, the Kof was unique in the fact that a qualified driver was not necessary, authorised shunters were permitted to drive them. No idea if the regulation extended to all small shunters. 

 

StaySafe

Edited November 12, 2022 by Jack Benson

[D9020 Nimbus]

Köf IIIs were sometimes used on passenger trains on branch lines, notably on Falls—Gefrees, pulling railcar trailers. The DR V15 and V23 were used in East Germany in a similar way. (These later became DR classes 101/102; the Köf IIIs DB classes 332/3/5.)

 

Why railcar trailers? Because they had train heating.

[Guest Jack Benson]

Falls Gefrees

 

[railroadbill]

 

On 09/11/2022 at 08:43, NHY 581 said:

This is also pricking my interest.....

 

Image by Roco

 

 

"Several (perhaps 7) of these Dutch shunting locomotive came to Czechoslovakia with the German army during World War II. After its end, they remained here, the only machine  allegedly renamed was T232.002 .

By 1949, they were all returned with other material to Holland."

 

 

 

 

Here's a Sik (goat) 200 class on display in Rotterdam. It's in a part of the old docks where there is a maritime museum with steam tugs, barges and other old work boats.  Well worth a visit.

They are 21 tonnes so just a bit heavier than the Köf II.

 

 

I eventually got a second hand one off eBay, bit rough and a noisy runner but with some TLC it settled down a bit and is ok running slow, which of course is what it should do!

 

7 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

Btw, the Kof was unique in the fact that a qualified driver was not necessary, authorised shunters were permitted to drive them. No idea if the regulation extended to all small shunters. 

 

 

 

The Sik was the same, according to the (Dutch and English) information placard by the preserved loco I saw. Also the Sik could be driven from ground level from controls outside the cab so the operator could walk alongside the loco while shunting.

 

These small shunters are very compelling, an excellent thread!

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by railroadbill

[NHY 581]

I've found this. A Czech company who supplies transfers. 

 

 

Here's a photo of one of the Czech locos...

 

I'm unable to credit the photographer at present. 

 

 

I just need to find a nice example now. 

 

The Brawa examples seem quite old, mud 1980s. 

 

Anything more recent ? 

 

Rob

 

 

 

[NHY 581]

As an aside, these are about to land from REE Modeles.

 

2101 Origine, Vert 306, traverses rouges, Sud-Est Ep.III
Réf. MB-145 - Modèle Analogique
Réf. MB-145S - Modèle DCC Sound