Thoughts about TT

[D9020 Nimbus]

22 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The locos that are being made in r-t-r 009 so far are the most prominent of the most well known, the equivalents of ‘Flying Scotsman’ if you like, but there are a still a several sub-3ft common carrier lines yet to be touched,

For sub-3 foot common carrier lines, the only one I can think of that hasn't yet been touched is the Welshpool and Llanfair. Locos on the Campbeltown and Macrihanish, and the Leek and Manifold have been done by Fourdees — albeit at very high prices (£400+). There aren't that many that would be popular enough to sell well—I think only the W&L comes into that category. Unless preservationists start rebuilding those other lines…

[Railpassion]

I experimented with TT using HOm track. I found the bttb couplings a bit clumsy but the size of stock seemed very comfortable. 

Much more room for loops and longer trains on a small layout 9 x 11.

The cost of tillig track, to do the job properly, eventually put me off. 

 

I'm back with HO using short carriages/umbauwagen building a German layout which I'm really enjoying.

 

[whart57]

On 02/01/2023 at 16:07, D9020 Nimbus said:

For sub-3 foot common carrier lines, the only one I can think of that hasn't yet been touched is the Welshpool and Llanfair. Locos on the Campbeltown and Macrihanish, and the Leek and Manifold have been done by Fourdees — albeit at very high prices (£400+). There aren't that many that would be popular enough to sell well—I think only the W&L comes into that category. Unless preservationists start rebuilding those other lines…

 

I can't help but think there are technical issues with producing a 009 version of Earl or Countess commercially. The outside frames, waggly valve gear and long wheelbase present challenges. The valve gear can be done as the Bachman Baldwins demonstrate but outside frames are exceedingly rare on commercial models and the wheels would need clever engineering to get them round the corners some 009 owners inflict on their stock.

 

That said I did put Earl and Countess down as 0n16.5 suggestions of the Rapido survey last year.

[eldomtom2]

34 minutes ago, whart57 said:

I can't help but think there are technical issues with producing a 009 version of Earl or Countess commercially. The outside frames, waggly valve gear and long wheelbase present challenges. The valve gear can be done as the Bachman Baldwins demonstrate but outside frames are exceedingly rare on commercial models and the wheels would need clever engineering to get them round the corners some 009 owners inflict on their stock.

 

That said I did put Earl and Countess down as 0n16.5 suggestions of the Rapido survey last year.

We shall see what Model Rail and Revolution do for their VoR tanks...

[NCB]

Seem to remember someone intending to do OO9  W&L stlock, possibly Bachmann..Vale of Rheidol hasn't yet been done.

[Jeff Smith]

1 hour ago, whart57 said:

That said I did put Earl and Countess down as 0n16.5 suggestions of the Rapido survey last year.

Just to clarify the terms, O-16.5 is 7mm/ft (1/43), On30 is 1/4"/ft (1/48).  Both run on 16.5mm track.

[NCB]

On 31/12/2022 at 16:33, GreenDiesel said:

I'm fascinated by Hornby's new TT launch, and find myself thinking about it often, watching TT videos on Youtube, etc. About 8 years ago, I switched from 00 to N, so I don't think I can really afford another scale switch, unless it's a few years in the future.  I've always thought TT was the ideal scale and I really enjoy watch videos of TT layouts in operation.

 

A few thoughts/questions: It would seem strange (and limiting), I think, to buy all of ones products from the same manufacturer. In 00 and N, I'm used to sourcing locos and rolling stock from a variety of companies -- both new and very old -- and this partly adds to the charm of having a layout, putting together a believable layout from items that are either brand new or 40+ years old. Also, does anyone know if Bachmann or any other manufacturers will get into TT120? I could see that happening, although it's curious the Heljan recently pulled away. 

 

Mods: This post is NOT meant to be controversial, etc., I'm just asking about and posting thoughts that have come to mind as I digest the TT news. Please feel free to take it down, though, if necessary.

 Nobody knows the intentions of other manufacturers, but I'd  be surprised if Dapol and Bacchmann aren't giving it serious thought. The pie is large enough.

[dunnyrail]

I think that TT120 has the possibility of being a 00 killer, correct as near as possible gauge to scale compared to 00 and the former TT3. Yes wheels look a little clumpy, but much finer than N to look at but those couplings. But when coupled look ok and have decently small gaps. Time will tell if I am rights or wrong or even if Bachmann or others get in bed with TT120. Can possibly see Piko or Roco trying an Austerity or S160 to test the water. 

[Ravenser]

The Peco TT:120 7 plk wooden mineral is now being advertised in Railway Modeller, along with extra TT120 buildings

 

As this doesn't seem to have been picked up on RMWeb , I've added a thread here: 7 plk Peco wagons, in the Peco section of the forum

[Jeff Smith]

Does not appear on Peco's website either.

[britishcolumbian]

23 hours ago, dunnyrail said:

Can possibly see Piko or Roco trying an Austerity or S160 to test the water.

An S160 would be a no brainer, one would think, given how many were used on the Continent - hundreds just in Hungary alone; I'm actually surprised nobody has done one yet.

[D9020 Nimbus]

It's been done (by Roco) in HO, for a price in excess of €400. While it's relevant to a lot of countries, it's restricted to a fairly short time span. I note that Piko are doing some USATC stuff—they've done the Whitcomb diesel in HO and are planning it in N.

[Dava]

The USA TC S100 0-6-0T is an ideal pan-European tank loco which ran in the UK also. 
 

Dava
 

[RJS1977]

4 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

An S160 would be a no brainer, one would think, given how many were used on the Continent - hundreds just in Hungary alone; I'm actually surprised nobody has done one yet.

And several in the UK as well, of course, both during WW2 and in the preservation era.

 

We very nearly had two at Wallingford station at the same time a year ago!

[britishcolumbian]

10 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

It's been done (by Roco) in HO, for a price in excess of €400. While it's relevant to a lot of countries, it's restricted to a fairly short time span. I note that Piko are doing some USATC stuff—they've done the Whitcomb diesel in HO and are planning it in N.

Micro Metakit I believe it was also made a nice metal kit S160 in HO too, but I was specifically referring to TT scale, with it being the second most popular scale in Hungary and the S160 being used in the hundreds there deep into the 1970s. BTTB did after all mould the Nohab in TT for the Hungarian market, and the Piko Nohab was the first in HO, too, again with the Hungarian market in mind.

 

A fellow in Australia is working on a 3D print Whitcomb body for a Tillig V100 chassis in 1:120.

[RJS1977]

18 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

It's been done (by Roco) in HO, for a price in excess of €400. 

 

Yes, I looked into getting one to model the 2021 "Polar Express" until I saw the price!

[Les1952]

I've started building my next exhibition layout (funded by the sale of Croft Spa and eventually the 150 locos and 500-odd pieces of rolling stock that ran on it).  When I did the first planning it would either be Broken Scar as UK outline, or another location on the semi-fictional Bregtalbahn, Bregstadt  with both being done over a five year period replacing eventually NO PLACE and Bregenbach im Schwarzwald also.  Given that I've reached 70 these are likely to be the final pair of exhibition layouts.

 

With Hornby being a bit sluggish starting, not surprisingly given the state of the world at the moment, Bregstadt will be built first, using a mixture of Hornby and Peco track.  Indeed tracklaying has begun.  It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a Hornby A4 and A3 will appear in the roster- after all if the UK could host a German 01 class Pacific there is no reason why a German preservation group couldn't have bought a UK Pacific.....   Broken Scar will follow, and by that time we should have plenty of J94s, an 08 or two and maybe other small suitable locos.

 

The beauty of this is that I can build a layout I can shunt on that will take Pacifics on an exhibition baseboard I can stand behind.  In the meantime I can listen to my Arnold 2-10-0 and Roco 4-6-0 chuffing slowly round on fairly appropriate trains.

 

 

or maybe inappropriate trains would be more fun.....

 

Les

 

[britishcolumbian]

On 21/01/2023 at 13:18, Dava said:

The USA TC S100 0-6-0T is an ideal pan-European tank loco which ran in the UK also. 
 

Dava
 

Too bad TT didn't get popular in the former Yugoslavia, JŽ had vast numbers of these as copies made by Ðuro Ðaković. If one of these ever is produced in TT it's quite likely I'll get one to repaint.

[lakeview770]

On 01/01/2023 at 13:18, woodenhead said:

Seemingly bought by YouTubers keen to tell us their views on TT120, there are only so many times I can watch a video of an A3 and three Pullman coaches going around a loop of track on a table or on a wooden floor.

I think theres one out there showing his progress on a layout he's building, still an oval of track and 1 siding.

 

For me this is something I'm looking forward to I'll still model OO and N Scale (US & Swiss) and now have a go at BR[E]

[rogerzilla]

The Chadwick Model Railway channel has some interesting insights into the Easterner TT set.  Charlie demonstrates that the track isn't very well made (the curves are too small in arc for a proper circle, and twisted outwards) and suggests you should try Peco instead.  Also, because OO (except the track) is oversized compared to HO, TT is much closer to N rather than being halfway between OO and N.   It is more like halfway between HO and N.  I agree with this and would choose N instead as there is plenty of s/h stuff in N.

 

He isn't a fan of the direct sales model, it's safe to say.

[Dava]

On 30/01/2023 at 13:21, britishcolumbian said:

Too bad TT didn't get popular in the former Yugoslavia, JŽ had vast numbers of these as copies made by Ðuro Ðaković. If one of these ever is produced in TT it's quite likely I'll get one to repaint.

Roco could make one using their BR80 chassis! They won’t but there is definitely a market for one. UK TT120 needs an 0-6-0T shunter & the US S100 and JZ class 62 would have European appeal. Class 62 Drawing below.

 

Dava

[andrewshimmin]

11 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

The Chadwick Model Railway channel has some interesting insights into the Easterner TT set.  Charlie demonstrates that the track isn't very well made (the curves are too small in arc for a proper circle, and twisted outwards) and suggests you should try Peco instead.  Also, because OO (except the track) is oversized compared to HO, TT is much closer to N rather than being halfway between OO and N.   It is more like halfway between HO and N.  I agree with this and would choose N instead as there is plenty of s/h stuff in N.

 

He isn't a fan of the direct sales model, it's safe to say.

 

Just to offer a counterpoint, I've found the track in my Scotsman set to be very good for the price.

Sure, some people aren't going to like TT120's size, and apparently want to simultaneously complain that it's not as good quality as the more expensive alternative product and also that it's too expensive compared to the, erm, more expensive equivalent in other scales.

But for what it's worth I think it's good value for money, and (some quality niggles aside, which I entirely agree they need to sort pronto) ideally suited to most modern homes and new entrants to the hobby.

[britishcolumbian]

21 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

It is more like halfway between HO and N.

TT is almost exactly halfway between HO and N, yes.

[britishcolumbian]

11 hours ago, Dava said:

Roco could make one using their BR80 chassis! They won’t but there is definitely a market for one. UK TT120 needs an 0-6-0T shunter & the US S100 and JZ class 62 would have European appeal. Class 62 Drawing below.

 

Could definitely be something for a 3D printer to do then, would probably do well for them. I'm sceptical of much if any new tooling coming from Roco anytime soon, as afaik they've announced nothing new at all for this year. There'd be market for their existing M62, and yet...

[Porfuera]

On 11/02/2023 at 08:07, rogerzilla said:

The Chadwick Model Railway channel has some interesting insights into the Easterner TT set.  Charlie demonstrates that the track isn't very well made (the curves are too small in arc for a proper circle, and twisted outwards) and suggests you should try Peco instead.  Also, because OO (except the track) is oversized compared to HO, TT is much closer to N rather than being halfway between OO and N.   It is more like halfway between HO and N.  I agree with this and would choose N instead as there is plenty of s/h stuff in N.

 

He isn't a fan of the direct sales model, it's safe to say.

 

I tried his experiment with the circle of Radius 3 track from my Scotsman set and I didn't get any overlap at all. When I overlapped the track by a similar amount to his (about 75mm / 3 inches) I found that the circle of track was no longer a circle but a slight oval. I thought he could at least have used the tape measure to demonstrate that he still had a circle by measuring a couple of diameters. And Peco is flexi - probably not the sort of thing that newcomers will use, especially if they're only setting up the layout temporarily on a table or floor.

 

Granted the track isn't perfect (mine also suffers from the inside track raising itself off the table) but in my opinion it is built down to a price to keep the sets and subsequent track purchases cheaper and it doesn't seem to affect the running of the train, which is the crucial part for new modellers. He also pointed out that it was a train set and then in virtually the same breath he criticised elements of it for being of train set - like the selection of the coach types (again, probably not crucial to a new modeller) and I don't think he mentioned that further coaches are becoming available, as far as I remember.

 

As for the direct sales model, I could be wrong but I don't remember him pointing out the benefits of that - it keeps the prices lower for the purchasers (especially with the extra 15% TT:120 Club discount) to give Hornby the opportunity to build a market and at the same time there is no risk to model shops should the scale not take off, leaving them with piles of unsold stock as a consequence. And according to some people, modelshops are relieved that they don't have to stock it anyway.

 

And does it matter that it closer to N than 00? It is a scale in its own right, used and manufactured in several other parts of the world, unlike 00, and that's Hornby's reason for choosing TT:120 over TT3. Do people say the same about S scale, that it is too close to 00 so people shouldn't model it and they should model 00 instead? Many people are not buying TT:120 because it is exactly mid-way between one scale and another, they are buying it to give TT:120 a try to see what it is like, what can be done with it and what its particular benefits are - that's the same as with any other scale/gauge combination.

 

I think it is safe to say that he isn't a fan of TT:120 in any shape of form and there are much more balanced videos out there that actually provide comparative measurements and discussions of the scales rather than a quick photo shot of two or three locos.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Porfuera