Formula 1 2023

[PeterStiles]

17 minutes ago, 30368 said:

Mercedes - who bought Ilmore Engines to power their car

And that was _how_ many years ago now? 

[30368]

Hi WH,

 

I don't dissagree, both Charles and Carlos deserve better than their current situation. Both have great talent, I just don't understand how Ferrari GP seem incapable of learning from past errors and getting some real strategic and tectical brain power into the team. That Irish Lady (Sorry madam, can't recall your name) that injects some real brain power into the Sky team commentry could help I'm sure. My daughters, who are Ferrari Fans too (well brought up...) wan't to see more women in the sport. As that old chestnut states, women are capable of thinking about more than one thing at once......

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[30368]

1 minute ago, PeterStiles said:

But RB don't *want* someone to give Max a "run for his money". Historically they are happiest having one driver dominate and a second driver to pick up 2nd or 3rd place behind the latest Golden Boy..

 

Yes one understands all that, the days of two World Champions in one team are probably over. That was not really the point I was trying to make.

 

Frustrated and disgusted of Maranello....

 

[LNERandBR]

8 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

At the next lot of pit stops, they were too close to pit on the same lap. 1 must therefore be in front of the other, so only 1 can pit at the best time. They chose they team leader. As above, I have no problem with this. This allowed Verstappen to undercut Perez. But from a team point of view, their cars are 1 & 2, with the championship leader first.

 

There was over 2 seconds between the cars, they had enough time to bring them in and change the tyres on both. Merc have done it in the past many times.

 

Granted, it's a higher risk. Get an issue with the first car and the second is ends up stood waiting. However, RB are pit stop pros and should be more than capable of doing double stops. However, I cannot think of any time that they have done it.

[The Lurker]

8 hours ago, 30368 said:

Hi WH,

 

I don't dissagree, both Charles and Carlos deserve better than their current situation. Both have great talent, I just don't understand how Ferrari GP seem incapable of learning from past errors and getting some real strategic and tectical brain power into the team. That Irish Lady (Sorry madam, can't recall your name) that injects some real brain power into the Sky team commentry could help I'm sure. My daughters, who are Ferrari Fans too (well brought up...) wan't to see more women in the sport. As that old chestnut states, women are capable of thinking about more than one thing at once......

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Bernie Collins - is the Irish Lady

Edited August 28, 2023 by The Lurker

[Pete the Elaner]

19 hours ago, 30368 said:

Hi WH,

 

I don't dissagree, both Charles and Carlos deserve better than their current situation. Both have great talent, I just don't understand how Ferrari GP seem incapable of learning from past errors and getting some real strategic and tectical brain power into the team. That Irish Lady (Sorry madam, can't recall your name) that injects some real brain power into the Sky team commentry could help I'm sure. My daughters, who are Ferrari Fans too (well brought up...) wan't to see more women in the sport. As that old chestnut states, women are capable of thinking about more than one thing at once......

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

They make it look really difficult, but it shouldn't be.

Each team starts with a strategy, or often slightly different ones for each car. They should be reviewing this regularly, at some times even lap by lap.

When the black clouds got closer, the teams should have been bringing the inters to the front of their garages. They may not be allowed in the pit lane unless they are planning to stop, but they can get the tyres ready to go. The cameras showed them sitting there watching the monitors with their arms folded & helmets off.

When a safety car is deployed, it should never prompt a team to make a snap decision: they should be preparing for one at all times. Some of them may do that but others look surprised when it happens & we also hear team radio where drivers are suggesting things.

It only takes 1 person in each team to be strategy manager & they should keep their team prepared at all times.

Red Bull seem to have this organised. We hear them ask their drivers for feedback regarding tyre feeling & occasionally what they can see the clouds doing.

 

[Pete the Elaner]

19 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Or incensed at yet another stitch-up?

 

When Perez was out of a job after being replaced at Racing Point & Red Bull had a vacancy after not re-signing Albon, they did not meet up straight away.

Do you really think that would have waited if they wanted him as an equal No1 driver?

Look at the history of Red Bull: They have been more successful when having a No1 & No2 driver & their team principal (& therefore their team ethic) has remained unchanged.

It seems a bit silly that they would have hung around to sign somebody who was unemployed at the time then made him an equal No1 with someone who they had nurtured through their development programme.

His best season finish before 2021 was 4th. He has since finished 4th & 3rd, now he is 2nd.

 

If Perez feels he has been stitched up, I am sure the team quickly remind him of the above.

He was signed as a No2 & is being treated exactly like that.

[newbryford]

48 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

His best season finish before 2021 was 4th. He has since finished 4th & 3rd, now he is 2nd.

 

If Perez feels he has been stitched up, I am sure the team quickly remind him of the above.

He was signed as a No2 & is being treated exactly like that.

 

But he could have easily finished 2nd last year if his team leader had played ball..............

[LNERandBR]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

When Perez was out of a job after being replaced at Racing Point & Red Bull had a vacancy after not re-signing Albon, they did not meet up straight away.

Do you really think that would have waited if they wanted him as an equal No1 driver?

Look at the history of Red Bull: They have been more successful when having a No1 & No2 driver & their team principal (& therefore their team ethic) has remained unchanged.

It seems a bit silly that they would have hung around to sign somebody who was unemployed at the time then made him an equal No1 with someone who they had nurtured through their development programme.

His best season finish before 2021 was 4th. He has since finished 4th & 3rd, now he is 2nd.

 

If Perez feels he has been stitched up, I am sure the team quickly remind him of the above.

He was signed as a No2 & is being treated exactly like that.

 

So maybe RB sould stop talking to the media as though Perez is on equal footing as their no1 driver.

 

We all believe that Perez is a No2 driver from the way we see him being treated. However at no point have RB stated he is.

 

Personally, I like Perez and I am glad he still has a seat in F1 after being replaced at Racing Point/Aston.

However, the last two years of RB domination have been boring when compared to Mercs period. At least Merc let their drivers fight and by the time they'd had enough of that other teams had caught up enough that there was a chance of someone else winning.

 

You just have to look at the most consecutive wins record Verstappen broke at the weekend. Not one that Lewis gained during Mercs golden patch, one held by Vettel another driver for RB.

[Pete the Elaner]

1 minute ago, LNERandBR said:

 

So maybe RB sould stop talking to the media as though Perez is on equal footing as their no1 driver.

 

We all believe that Perez is a No2 driver from the way we see him being treated. However at no point have RB stated he is.

 

Personally, I like Perez and I am glad he still has a seat in F1 after being replaced at Racing Point/Aston.

However, the last two years of RB domination have been boring when compared to Mercs period. At least Merc let their drivers fight and by the time they'd had enough of that other teams had caught up enough that there was a chance of someone else winning.

 

You just have to look at the most consecutive wins record Verstappen broke at the weekend. Not one that Lewis gained during Mercs golden patch, one held by Vettel another driver for RB.

 

I hate the way RB & their fans claim their drivers are treated equally & that Merc never did. They would be silly to not favour 1 when the situation is tight like it was in 2021.

There is less point when the drivers are ahead like they are now. They have the luxury of letting them race each other, but if they still do not want them to do that, there is nothing wrong with choosing to not let them.

 

It would be different if they were open about it. Merc had no shame is giving team orders clearly over the radio, but they only did it when it made a meaningful difference.

I also remember Ferrari breaking a seal on Massa's gearbox to give him a penalty & promote Alonso up the grid. Domenicali was open & honest about that being the reason why so nothing more was said.

 

[Hroth]

Hamilton and Russell extend their Merc contracts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66673285

 

 

[Invicta Informant]

On 28/08/2023 at 15:16, 30368 said:

Mercedes - who bought Ilmore Engines to power their cars.

I remember coming across the story of a specially and secretly designed Ilmor-Mercedes-Benz engine, ran by Penske, that dominated the 1994 Indy 500. They also dominated the 1994 IndyCar season. Not Formula One I know but it is interesting story.

 

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

Thanks for posting that. I remember watching that season, and the Indy 500, back in the period when Eurosport showed every Indy race live. Great times, and such a dominant performance.

[Invicta Informant]

On 01/09/2023 at 12:06, Obi-Jiff Kenobi said:

Thanks for posting that. I remember watching that season, and the Indy 500, back in the period when Eurosport showed every Indy race live. Great times, and such a dominant performance.

IndyCar was pretty popular and then the infamous split happened when the then President of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway (IMS), Tony George, left the CART (Championship Auto Racing Teams) board to establish what was initially the solely oval-based series that was the Indy Racing League (IRL), with the Indy 500 being the blue ribbon event.

 

From 1996 there were two separate American open-wheel racing series until unification in 2008. CART (which later became Champ Car when CART went bankrupt at the end of 2003) had at first the recognisable names, teams and sponsors, but scored a number of own goals. The 1996 US 500 on the same weekend as the Indy 500 and having a multi-car accident just before the race started. The 2001 Firestone Firehawk 600 which never happened because of high G-forces causing drivers to blackout or experience dizziness/disorientation during practice and qualifying. Eventually the bigger teams (Penske, Chip Ganassi and Andretti) switched to the IRL (mainly at the bequest of their sponsors who wanted them at the Indy 500). The split also opened the door for NASCAR to increase in popularity.

 

Since late 2019 the IndyCar Series has been under the management of Penske, who also own the IMS and as well as their eponymous racing team (conflict of interest?). The championship has essentially reverted back to how it was before the split, but with much improved safety.

[30368]

FORZA FERRARI    

 

I forgive them all the cock ups this year in F1 and even more so if the pole is converted.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[Steadfast]

1 hour ago, 30368 said:

FORZA FERRARI    

 

I forgive them all the cock ups this year in F1 and even more so if the pole is converted.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Much as i agree with you and would love to see a Ferrari 1-2, realistically I see Verstappen in the lead from the first chicane and a yawn fest at the front, but a decent race behind him. That is, unless someone is a bit too brave into turn 1 and torpedoes him...

 

Jo

[Bulleidboy100]

On 31/08/2023 at 13:28, Hroth said:

Hamilton and Russell extend their Merc contracts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66673285

 

 

According to Toto - both parties (Mercedes and LH) signed back in May. Toto said it all added to the suspense of the situation.

[30368]

21 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

Much as i agree with you and would love to see a Ferrari 1-2, realistically I see Verstappen in the lead from the first chicane and a yawn fest at the front, but a decent race behind him. That is, unless someone is a bit too brave into turn 1 and torpedoes him...

 

Hi Jo,

 

I strongly suspect that you are right but as an (adult) life long Ferrari fan and lover of Italia, my heart rules in the special case of Monza. I have attended the GP at Monza six times and the atmosphere is just fantastic. Shopping and eating in Milan and then the train from Milano Centrale to Monza. The station is near the Lesmo Curves. The

Italian GP at Monza is one of the delightful highs of life.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[37114]

28 minutes ago, 30368 said:

 

Hi Jo,

 

I strongly suspect that you are right but as an (adult) life long Ferrari fan and lover of Italia, my heart rules in the special case of Monza. I have attended the GP at Monza six times and the atmosphere is just fantastic. Shopping and eating in Milan and then the train from Milano Centrale to Monza. The station is near the Lesmo Curves. The

Italian GP at Monza is one of the delightful highs of life.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

It was Monza where Mclaren failed to win their only race of the 1988 season.... Hoping Lightning strikes twice...

[SR71]

So what happened to the investigation into the Ferraris' exceeding the minimum out lap lap time?

 

Waiting till the fans left the circuit to announce it?

[Steadfast]

2 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

Hi Jo,

 

I strongly suspect that you are right but as an (adult) life long Ferrari fan and lover of Italia, my heart rules in the special case of Monza. I have attended the GP at Monza six times and the atmosphere is just fantastic. Shopping and eating in Milan and then the train from Milano Centrale to Monza. The station is near the Lesmo Curves. The

Italian GP at Monza is one of the delightful highs of life.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

Absolutely right, and that's something that Ferrari has in bucket loads, the passion and heart of the sport. I remember as a kid  everything at McLaren was very grey and boring, Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh in smart grey jumpers, grey cars and no emotion, versus the gorgeous red cars with a passionate following and the mysterious words like Scuderia and Tifosi that led a young kid to discover who this Schumacher chap was, and all those who'd gone before him. Will digging a red shirt out the wardrobe tomorrow be a good luck charm or a curse?

 

9 minutes ago, SR71 said:

So what happened to the investigation into the Ferraris' exceeding the minimum out lap lap time?

 

Waiting till the fans left the circuit to announce it?

Chucked out according to Fred Vasseur,  as you are allowed to exceed the delta if slowing to let a car on a fast lap past.

 

Jo

[30368]

12 hours ago, 37114 said:

It was Monza where Mclaren failed to win their only race of the 1988 season.... Hoping Lightning strikes twice...

 

Yes me too, I remember the incident well, Senna was very cross when he and Schlesser collided and Berger for Ferrari won the race. Lucy? yes for sure, but Berger was catching Senna very rapidly anyway.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by 30368

[30368]

A great achievment by RB and Max Verstappen to win 10 races on the "trot" as it were. I think though they had to work for it while the Ferrari tyres were fairly new. The "magic" DRS did not really make much difference with the low downforce Ferrari set up.

A really great race by the top four drivers with very close racing but no misshaps. The Ferrari pair drove their hearts out for the win. It was a very great race to watch (although the Sky coverage spent too much time watching contests further down the field) reminding me, certainly for the first 15 laps or so, of the great slipstreaming races of old. If I understand it correctly, the tyre compounds this year are softer than last year, a pity given they higher tyre degradation on the Ferrari car.

 

I got the impression from some of the drivers that they had a divine right to overtake without any attempt by the guy in front to fight for the place?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[Steadfast]

A predictable result, but at least it took a few laps to get there. Decent race, lots of overtaking. Maybe we need several rounds at Monza each year?

 

There seemed to be a lot of helmet cam this weekend, and the more they use it, the more I hate it and its wobbly dizziness. No win, F1.

 

Jo

[ess1uk]

I actually forgot there was a race so didn’t listen on the radio or watch the highlights on Ch4

are they still available?