Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[friscopete]

18 hours ago, RAF96 said:

Tim Mulhall of Hornby made a statement on the Hornby International forum that they will be rolling out sound profiles sooner rather than in years for international loco types. Previously sound for these locos was third party supply.

I emailed Simon K a few weeks ago  to ask if any American sounds and functions were to be added and he said it was already in hand .Timing perfect as my DCC setup has just gone up the spout so I will check out some HM 7000 decoders  .I dont have a vast fleet so dont need to invest a huge amount .I needed sound decoders any way for most .

Edited April 29, 2023 by friscopete

[miles73128]

2 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Has anyone tried these in Bachmann 7Fs yet? Particulary G2A and SDJR 7F?

 

I have and, aside from faff of trying to convince the app that the sound profiles were installed (I used 4F ones and it took repeated attempts to install them), it seems that these 21pins TXS chips cannot handle big Bachmann tender engines.

 

Both models are fitted with the power packs (and I tried running without as well). 

Under blue tooth, Sounds work fine when stationary, but they cut out as soon as the motor kicks in before coming back on again. The loco will then advance a 1/4 of an inch then stop, nothing, no sound, all dead. Bluetooth disconnects as well.

It comes back about 30 seconds later, picks up from where it left off, advances another 1/4 inch and dies....

 

In the case of the SDJR 7F, that developed a short somewhere (more evident when the power pack is connected).

I'll try under DCC control next but am starting to wonder if the "compatibility list" is going to end up covering locos as well as controllers...

 

Edit Update: Under DCC, a completely different story. The G2A performed perfectly after reading the chip, changing the address and testing all the functions on the controller. Back to bluetooth, she was transformed there too! Note: the power pack has a life of about 1.5 seconds max.

Next up the SDJR 7F.

 

What I have observed is that the power bank needs a short time to charge up. I understand it only charges once in motion. So where you have a loco with poor pick up (e.g. Dapol 1st run class 73) I hold the loco stationary under full power for a few seconds (to charge) then release. It then performs well. I’ve installed a power bank in all 10 I’ve done so far, got another 30+ to do, and it makes a massive difference, especially as the BLE reboot does take approx 15secs 

[Jenny Emily]

For anyone wondering about the HM7000 Bluetooth decoder in 21 pin format, here is proof that it is EXACTLY the same size as an ESU Loksound V5. That means anything the ESU fits, then so does the HM7000. To further verify this, here is slso a photo of the HM7000 decoder fitted in an Irish Model Railways A class. 
 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Jenny Emily

[RAF96]

All the TXS decoders are 1A continuous with 1.5A overload so they should run most any loco. This stop/start thing is known about and is especially noticeable if a power bank if fitted and empty. It is being considered if possible to set stationary/moving charging on or off by CV.

Edited April 29, 2023 by RAF96

[E100]

14 minutes ago, Jenny Emily said:

For anyone wondering about the HM7000 Bluetooth decoder in 21 pin format, here is proof that it is EXACTLY the same size as an ESU Loksound V5. That means anything the ESU fits, then so does the HM7000. To further verify this, here is slso a photo of the HM7000 decoder fitted in an Irish Model Railways A class. 
 

 

Obviously, it’s very hit and miss whether you can install the speaker and power bank due to the connectors.

[Jenny Emily]

13 minutes ago, E100 said:

Obviously, it’s very hit and miss whether you can install the speaker and power bank due to the connectors.

Most locos don’t need a powerbank. On locos with a factory fitted speaker, it happily uses that. 
 

most of the 21 pin locos I have tested can accommodate the powerbank with no issues, and often a large speaker enclosure too if required. 

[spamcan61]

51 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

All the TXS decoders are 1A continuous with 1.5A overload so they should run most any loco. This stop/start thing is known about and is especially noticeable if a power bank if fitted and empty. It is being considered if possible to set stationary/moving charging on or off by CV.

So this looks like the inrush current of the power bank is causing a voltage 'brown out' to the microcontroller?

Edited April 29, 2023 by spamcan61

[RedgateModels]

Dropped an 8 pin in a Bachmann std 3 tank today. Decoder and thinnest double length speaker enclosure fits fine in the boiler/smokebox. No room as standard for a power pack though, would need more in depth disassembly to get into the bunker possibly, wires would need lengthening I guess. Britannia sounds used after the obligatory firmware updates etc. No issues loading, took 15 mins, worked first time.

 

Runs ok, motor drive is a bit noisy when running slow, maybe a tweak of motor control and/or an auto config might help. I need to get a couple of lengths of flexi so I can have a got at an auto config. 
 

one thing that did go wrong is that once, on loss of power due to running slow over a curved turnout it regained power, sounds carried on but motor drive was lost. Needed to “power cycle” the loco and all was well.
 

Accurascale Deltic next when I get a 21pin. Class 50 sounds will make it a DP2?

Edited April 29, 2023 by RedgateModels

[Jammur]

On 31/03/2023 at 20:11, Pedro32 said:

I’ve been watching this range develop since the initial announcement. My view was this offered those who had dabbled with TTS decoders something with a bit of more refinement and also encouraged those who may not have thought Iphone app or android control/sound possible to give it a go.

I have an ECoS command station as my main DCC controller and use a Dynamis Pro for testing and bench work. Some time ago I had fitted some of my items with TTS sound decoders and while basic they were good value for money.

That said I decided to order two sound decoders with a stay alive pack for each. R7336 8 pin  TXS sound decoder and R7322 21 pin TXS sound decoder.

I had read through the instructions and also seen some other Youtube uploads.

I fitted an 8 pin sound decoder to my Hornby Engineers Grey Class 31- which I had recently rescued from Mazak rot with a new metal chassis The sound decoder and speaker and separate stay alive all fitted together as I expected. Downloading the software was simple and the prompts to remove from track and replacing to install new sound profiles was very smooth sailing. All in all it took me an hour from taking the loco apart to having it running on my bench. I like the fact that I can use an Ipad to adjust the settings including volume and change the decoder location really quickly then flip the control to DCC and then cycle through the options on my Dynamis.

Today I fitted a 21 pin sound decoder to my new version Evening Star 9F. Again, I used the power supply from my Dynamis as I had done for the 31. The fitting of decoder and stay alive was simple and the tender of the 9F already has a speaker housing though you do have to squeeze things up a bit to reassemble the tender. Took me a while with my thick fingers!
Loading of the sound profile took slightly longer than I’d hoped as I kept getting an error that the sound profile wasn’t loaded properly. What I did in the end was to remove the decoder off the track then reinsert it again and reinstall the decoder software then install the sound profile and it worked! Sound was much better than TTS in my view and the total fitting time was an hour and a half- probably because I was being extra cautious as the decoders has stay alive packs added and it tells you to remove it from the track for 60 seconds. 
 

All the extra sounds you get is an added bonus over TTS. And I’m impressed with the range of plastic speaker housing you get in each kit. Instructions once you have found them on the Hornby website are by far the most comprehensive I’ve seen- when compared with the old TTS variant.
 

I should add that I have a fair few loksound V4/5 sound fitted locos in my loco fleet and these decoders offer versatility as well as being £ cheaper. Rest assured I’m not telling fellow modellers what to buy. Just saying what I’ve found so far. Solid start.

I’ve installed two sound decoders so far. I’ve now ordered some more  (8pin and 21 pin sound) with a view that it hopefully won’t be too long to wait to see what other Ex-TTS sounds are released…

 

regards Peter

 

Hi Peter 

 

did you manage to get the ECoS system to read / set the address on the new Hornby decoders ? Everytime I try it it shorts out I have set it to DCC on the app.

 

regards Jamie 

[Pedro32]

9 hours ago, Jammur said:

Hi Peter 

 

did you manage to get the ECoS system to read / set the address on the new Hornby decoders ? Everytime I try it it shorts out I have set it to DCC on the app.

 

regards Jamie 

Hi there Jamie,

 

I’ve only installed two sound decoders with stay alive to a Hornby class 31 and 9F so far. I’m waiting for an eventual release of a 47/60 and (assumed they may release in time) pannier sound files for me to install more decoders to some other stock.

 

Once I installed the sound files to the locos and I set the location and tested sounds etc.  I did this initial testing using my Dynamis, I then kept the toggle for each of the profiles set to DCC on the app. So I’ve not needed to change the location with my ECoS Command station. I’m afraid I’ve not read the locations either as the ECoS has recognised the locations already previously set by the Dynamis. 
 

Sorry  I don’t know this offers much of a solution? 

 

regards Peter

[Jammur]

2 hours ago, Pedro32 said:

Hi there Jamie,

 

I’ve only installed two sound decoders with stay alive to a Hornby class 31 and 9F so far. I’m waiting for an eventual release of a 47/60 and (assumed they may release in time) pannier sound files for me to install more decoders to some other stock.

 

Once I installed the sound files to the locos and I set the location and tested sounds etc.  I did this initial testing using my Dynamis, I then kept the toggle for each of the profiles set to DCC on the app. So I’ve not needed to change the location with my ECoS Command station. I’m afraid I’ve not read the locations either as the ECoS has recognised the locations already previously set by the Dynamis. 
 

Sorry  I don’t know this offers much of a solution? 

 

regards Peter

Hi Peter 

 

thanks for your quick reply. I understand your situation I also have a dynamis so I may try that to set the address, i just can’t seem to set or read the decoder address via the ECoS system for some reason, I’ve programmed over 100 decoders with the locos placed on a separate test track and it’s the first time I’ve came across this issue.

 

I have looked in multiple forums and even a Google search on this but can’t find anything, would you be able to use your ECoS to read the address of one of your decoders and see if it works so I can rule out the ECoS system? 
 

Regards Jamie 

[Jenny Emily]

I completed my ‘will it fit’ 21 pin edition tests. I think it is easiest to say I couldn’t find a loco that it wouldn’t fit into. Every loco I tried there was room for it plus at least the smallest speaker enclosure setups. 
 

In many cases there was room for the largest speaker enclosure snd a powerbank. Those saying these decoders won’t fit most locos clearly haven’t actually tried. 
 

It even fits in the rather tight Heljan class 14 with room for the speaker enclosure in the cab. Yes the body will fit back on over that:

 

[Johan DC]

32 minutes ago, Jenny Emily said:

I completed my ‘will it fit’ 21 pin edition tests. I think it is easiest to say I couldn’t find a loco that it wouldn’t fit into. Every loco I tried there was room for it plus at least the smallest speaker enclosure setups. 
 

In many cases there was room for the largest speaker enclosure snd a powerbank. Those saying these decoders won’t fit most locos clearly haven’t actually tried. 
 

Good to know, I have some loco's waiting for just that. Thanks for testing, looking forward to your next YT-video 

[D3489gibson]

4 hours ago, Jenny Emily said:

I completed my ‘will it fit’ 21 pin edition tests. I think it is easiest to say I couldn’t find a loco that it wouldn’t fit into. Every loco I tried there was room for it plus at least the smallest speaker enclosure setups. 
 

In many cases there was room for the largest speaker enclosure snd a powerbank. Those saying these decoders won’t fit most locos clearly haven’t actually tried. 
 

It even fits in the rather tight Heljan class 14 with room for the speaker enclosure in the cab. Yes the body will fit back on over that:

 

Great to see it'll fit the 14! Just waiting for the 37 sounds to drop before I commit to a fifth decoder! 

 

Nathan...

[Pmorgancym]

What sounds would suit the 14?

[JSpencer]

I eventually gave up trying to use the TXS on a Bachmann S&D 7F. The 7F has working valve port link motion (like their K3 as well) and sometimes this is well behaved, other times it can bind a little. And it seems to be the binding at slow speeds as the loco starts to move off that causes the bother. My hunch, the chip suddenly tries to boost power to the motor, it exceeds the limits, throws a safety switch and abruptly stops (maybe purposely shorting out - I could not trace any short with a standard plug on board).

 

So I reverted it back to plain DC and used the chip on a Bachmann Midland 4P compound. Here it works perfectly.

 

Below some pics of the conversion for the G2A, 7F, and 4P.

 

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

Got to say I am very impressed with my first experience of TXS. I've fitted an 8 pin into a 'full fat' Class 31 (£69.99 from Modelzone - those truly were the days!) as my test mule.  Fitting was straight forward (I stripped the fan out previously) and I used the largest supplied sound enclosure.

 

Downloading the sounds then the running profile then the functions was straightforward - took about 15 mins for the sounds, the other 2 less than 20 seconds each.

 

The app is very intuitive and I can't imagine anyone who uses a smart phone already is going to have any difficulty at all. A big bonus from my perspective is that I will be able to let guests 'have a go' without having to try and explain to them the ways of the NCE Powercab!

 

This loco was previously fitted with Hornby TTS and I can say that both the running quality and the responsiveness of the project is far better with TXS .

 

Sound quality is good - I have a little crackle with my speaker but I suspect that may just need the sound enclosure resealing. If that doesnt fix it I'll just put another speaker in.

 

The chip comes supplied with a generic steam sound - I was surprised how good this is, especially the 'wuff' of the exhaust which is actually better to my ears than several other Zimo and ESU based projects I have. If only Hornby could get this to sync with the wheel motion..........

 

Will certainly be getting a few more of these for diesels - I like the idea of being able to change sound projects, they are affordably cheap and they seem to be decent quality.

 

Helpfully there is Hornby Mag step by step guide in the June issue that happened to arrive today - its really concise and apart from accidentally downloading the sound project twice I found the guide easy to follow.

[RAF96]

2 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

The chip comes supplied with a generic steam sound - I was surprised how good this is, especially the 'wuff' of the exhaust which is actually better to my ears than several other Zimo and ESU based projects I have. If only Hornby could get this to sync with the wheel motion..........

Lateral thinking types have discovered that by using the complex speed curve settings the chuff can be better matched to the spokes. Just needs a sit down and fiddle around with some speed step values for a bit apparently.

Edited April 30, 2023 by RAF96

[JSpencer]

15 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Lateral thinking types have discovered that by using the complex speed curve settings the chuff can be better matched to the spokes. Just needs a sit down and fiddle around with some speed step values for a bit apparently.

 

Like TTS, the chuff still notches up like a diesel. It sort of doubles between each notch. I see about 6 notches on mine. For example I get chuffs just before they set off which continue to certain speed and then the chuff rate doubles. I guess the CVs will allow a little better alignment on TXS (on TTS you cannot).

 

Again I'm not expecting full fat quality on these (though I hope sound installation can avoid the frequent "no sound file loaded" error - which I suspect is actually within the phone app itself, not the chip).

 

 

[RedgateModels]

Today was the first time I ran a txs with a dc supply, very odd putting a dcc decoder equipped loco on the track without a controller lol

 

Hornby R7337 supply by the way, now Clipper up to max (yet) 

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, RAF96 said:

Lateral thinking types have discovered that by using the complex speed curve settings the chuff can be better matched to the spokes. Just needs a sit down and fiddle around with some speed step values for a bit apparently.

I’ve read that this has been done but yet to see anyone post a convincing clip showing it working. Happy to be proved wrong but need to see the evidence. As I said, the sounds are good  - really good - so it’s a shame this fundamental flaw can’t be addressed by Hornby.  It is mechanically impossible for a real steam locos rod and wheel rotation not to be in time with its  exhaust beats of course - hard to unsee that!
 

For now  I’ll happily buy more chips for diesels but it’s no use for steam for me as it is. 

[Jenny Emily]

I managed to fit the TXS decoder to a class 71. Not straightforward or for the faint hearted!

 

It required lifting the circuit board then removing the motor. This exposed a way through into the battery box underneath where the speaker can be mounted and the wires threaded back through before refitting the motor.
 

I then used Kapton tape to insulate the top of the motor so the decoder could sit at one end at a 45° angle. The circuit then was secured on top and the body replaced. 
 

It’s beyond a tight fit! But it works. I installed the class 73 sound file to be used in electric mode until such time as the actual class 71 sound profile becomes available. 

[miles73128]

11 hours ago, Jenny Emily said:

I managed to fit the TXS decoder to a class 71. Not straightforward or for the faint hearted!

 

It required lifting the circuit board then removing the motor. This exposed a way through into the battery box underneath where the speaker can be mounted and the wires threaded back through before refitting the motor.
 

I then used Kapton tape to insulate the top of the motor so the decoder could sit at one end at a 45° angle. The circuit then was secured on top and the body replaced. 
 

It’s beyond a tight fit! But it works. I installed the class 73 sound file to be used in electric mode until such time as the actual class 71 sound profile becomes available. 

I’d did the same! Except I managed to get the chip under the board, on top of the (insulated) motor. Not ideal I guess, but wanted to retain the interior booster detail. Did you manage to get the booster inside as well? I also got the stay alive inside the (trailing) cab, which you can’t really see. Surprise! The Hornby class 71 has cab lighting which is only accessible on DCC! 

Edited May 1, 2023 by miles73128

[RAF96]

11 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

As I said, the sounds are good  - really good - so it’s a shame this fundamental flaw can’t be addressed by Hornby.  It is mechanically impossible for a real steam locos rod and wheel rotation not to be in time with its  exhaust beats of course - hard to unsee that!
 

 

As the recorded chuffs are currently banded for decoder use (up to 18 chuff ‘notches’) it is electrically impossible to match those steps to a continuous sliding scale of speed steps. The best you can hope for is to match as close as possible those notches at the rev bands you use and can see and forget about the chuffs above eye discernible level. 

To achieve what you are hoping for would require a one off recording from stop to max speed and back again at each of varying loads then attempt to configure those in using BEMF to determine which load profile to switch to. Even then I would think once you got above a certain speed the chuffs would go back onto auto-notching.

Maybe a pro sound profiler could advise how continuous matching is done.

[RedgateModels]

1 minute ago, RAF96 said:

 

Maybe a pro sound profiler could advise how continuous matching is done.

 

Maybe you should get @pauliebanger on board Rob 🙂