Hornby 2023 - New tooling - Salmon/YMO bogie wagon

[hmrspaul]

24 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Of course it was easy, in 1951 all they needed do is walk down to the engine shed, ask for a paint sample.

 

Made me smile. BR didn't, of course, have a standard colour only mixes. I remember a long dead HMRS member telling me he had done what you suggest. Walked into small wagon works in Wales and asked for BR grey (he only modelled metal mineral wagons from the 1830s onwards). Anyway, the manager got some black paint and some white paint and mixed them together for him! Note no blue which was an essential part of the BR spec. 

 

Paul

PS want a nice grey LMR Salmon https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e2e2620d 1979. 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by hmrspaul

[Southernman46]

4 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

 

Anonymous Southernman46 Do you have photo proof?

What you are suggesting simply isn't true. It is of the later Salmons (nice photo of a new 1959 one in Don Rowlands BR Book), but not necessarily of the LMS/BR Borail which is what we are discussing. Looking at the two LMS wagon books - Essery and Morgan and the later Essery vol 2 - the LMS painted them Bauxite. But they have photos of BR era repaints of LMS ones and they are grey solebar, not black. BR liveries didn't settle until after a couple of years into nationalisation and I wasn't there!

 

Paul

 

 

Yes agreed, I was referring to the BR era-Salmons and not the LMS ones which may well have been grey. I'm not aware of (photos) and observation since the late 60's of any BR ones being grey - just black / olive green & yellow (ignoring more recent FOC's reliverying etc) which also overlapped each other. Much appreciated you have headed the potential livery error with the  3 "grey" BR ones - hopefully now will be nicely finished in olive green on production instead 👍

[Steadfast]

Some Salmon carried Dutch too. Perhaps Hornby thought these were just grey as the yellow is very narrow. I have seen the odd plain grey Salmon, but I'd think they were post privatisation "needs must" patch paint between the data panels type jobs.

 

Pic linked from smugmug of a Dutch one.

 

 

Jo

[hmrspaul]

18 hours ago, Steadfast said:

I have seen the odd plain grey Salmon, but I'd think they were post privatisation "needs must" patch paint between the data panels type jobs.

 

Jo

See my PS above - PS want a nice grey LMR Salmon https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e2e2620d 1979.  This is 1979, not post Privatisation. Another https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e1992c0ad or https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e105164ac I cannot give any suggestion of why they were painted in this way. 

 

But here are LMS ones  that have not been repainted for a long time  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e3a764d2d  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e2cc22a70  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e392fe46b

 

Quite honestly understanding the colour of these LMS design wagons in the BR period is very difficult. This one appears to be a nice olive green one in 1979 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e3fd40390 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e2d943e63

 

Now there is a later batch - 1953 build and that is well within the period of black for engineers and this one at Hitchin in 1975 appears to be just that https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e1795824  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e9e3e181

 

 

And yes, later Salmon were yellow solebared https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brsalmon5ft/e3f965d9e

 

Paul

[Steadfast]

39 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

See my PS above - PS want a nice grey LMR Salmon https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e2e2620d 1979.  This is 1979, not post Privatisation. Another https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e1992c0ad or https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e105164ac I cannot give any suggestion of why they were painted in this way. 

 

But here are LMS ones  that have not been repainted for a long time  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e3a764d2d  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e2cc22a70  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e392fe46b

 

Quite honestly understanding the colour of these LMS design wagons in the BR period is very difficult. This one appears to be a nice olive green one in 1979 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e3fd40390 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/e2d943e63

 

Now there is a later batch - 1953 build and that is well within the period of black for engineers and this one at Hitchin in 1975 appears to be just that https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e1795824  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmssalmon/e9e3e181

 

 

And yes, later Salmon were yellow solebared https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brsalmon5ft/e3f965d9e

 

Paul

Ah apologies for any crossed wires, the Dutch and plain grey ones I've seen are both the BR built, originally on plateback bogies but now on the EWS American style.

 

The plain grey ones I've seen would be 1990s paint jobs at the very oldest. The shade was light, so could tie in with same grey as Dutch, and faded over the intervening 20 odd years. It certainly wasn't a common livery, grubby plain yellow I'd say is the common on the modern day Salmon and Ospreys. 

 

Jo

[EWS60065]

There seems to be an ASF bogie on the sprue in the photos as fitted to the Salmons later on - didn't realise Hornby were producing this type but great if they are? 

[HExpressD]

10 minutes ago, EWS60065 said:

There seems to be an ASF bogie on the sprue in the photos as fitted to the Salmons later on - didn't realise Hornby were producing this type but great if they are? 

The tooling suite for the Salmons is quite extensive

[EWS60065]

4 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

The tooling suite for the Salmons is quite extensive

Of course, but not sure which of the Hornby models announced will actually use these more modern bogies (thought they were only covering the older plate bogie types) 

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, EWS60065 said:

Of course, but not sure which of the Hornby models announced will actually use these more modern bogies (thought they were only covering the older plate bogie types) 

 

Perhaps they cover unannounced versions, to be released at a later date?

 

CJI.

[EWS60065]

11 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Perhaps they cover unannounced versions, to be released at a later date?

 

CJI.

That's what I was thinking, as a modern image modeller I would love to see them 

[EWS60065]

Just had a look at some information on the Hornby website and it states that they will firstly produce BR and LMS variants and then move on to others - so a good chance we will see the more modern ones too. 

[adb968008]

Fti, I found this Salmon on the Hornby stand complete with lifting crane..

[Southernman46]

This sample has the two different bogie types fitted - one at either end - shows they will be doing both bogie variants 👍 - hopefully the production versions won't have this feature 🤦‍♂️

[WCML100]

Some further shots I took on Saturday…

 

 

 

 

I did ask about an ASF bogie version but the response was pretty negative…

[XChris]

On 28/11/2023 at 09:54, WCML100 said:

 

I did ask about an ASF bogie version but the response was pretty negative…

 

Well I also asked and was told they are doing them, the bogies are on the photos and that it would likely be a release for future but wouldn’t tell me if it was next year or not. 

[WCML100]

2 hours ago, XChris said:

 

Well I also asked and was told they are doing them, the bogies are on the photos and that it would likely be a release for future but wouldn’t tell me if it was next year or not. 

interesting. It’s frustrating we don’t get clear answers… have you got the photos to hand by any chance?

[XChris]

On 30/11/2023 at 22:06, WCML100 said:

interesting. It’s frustrating we don’t get clear answers… have you got the photos to hand by any chance?

When I say photos I mean the key world article and photos at this link that was discussed earlier. 
 

https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/Hornby-salmon-wagon-first-shots?utm_campaign=kmw social&utm_content=255537182&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&hss_channel=fbp-129246407114953

 

The sprue for the toolings shows an ASF bogie, Hornby can’t deny that one! As the guy didn’t at Warley, I feel like he was more loose lipped than some others on the stand, but he also didn’t have all the answers and when I asked further another person in effect told him to shut up and stop talking as in he was giving away future releases!