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Hornby 2023 - New tooling - TTA tank wagon

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Graham108

Graham108

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On 03/04/2023 at 07:00, Enterprisingwestern said:

If Hornby brought out a triple pack I'd put money on them being consecutively numbered.

Well you'd lose over this one - zooming in on the HFA's shows at least 358704 & 358550 (you can't see the other) - http://sawyermodels.co.uk/?product=r60067-Hornby-br-coal-sector-triple-pack-hfa-coal-hopper-wagon

These look like they could be 354248 & 354249 - http://sawyermodels.co.uk/?product=r60069-Hornby-ews-triple-pack-hfa-coal-hopper-wagon

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steve1

steve1

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I emailed Hornby Customer Care this morning about these.

 

Within 15 minutes I had a reply saying the Esso version, R60208, should be arriving this month.

 

Impressive customer service I reckon.

 

steve.

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James Makin

James Makin

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I've just had the Hornby pre-order notification, they've arrived at the warehouse and ready for despatch, exciting times ahead! 

 

I look forward to weathering these - similarly how much time saving will there be with just a few mods and chucking the Bachmann 'Limpet' or MTA bodies on top, hours saved in grinding out the old suspension units and scratchbuilding the various dangly brake yoke bits 😄

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hmrspaul

hmrspaul

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1 hour ago, SouthernMafia said:

Very impressed, thought logo was too small but have since seen a pic of one in 1964 with this size logo. I'll be removing it anyway. Pictured next to my almost finished Bachmann conversion

 

 

 

 

The small logo is a later style, as in this recently painted version in 1989 (only one number away  from the Hornby version so photo likely to have been an influence) https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essopickeringa/e4beb899a

The original paint job (no TOPS etc of course) had a larger ESSO https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essopickeringa/e4bebcd30

 

Paul

 

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SouthernMafia

SouthernMafia

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9 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

The small logo is a later style, as in this recently painted version in 1989 (only one number away  from the Hornby version so photo likely to have been an influence) https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essopickeringa/e4beb899a

The original paint job (no TOPS etc of course) had a larger ESSO https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essopickeringa/e4bebcd30

 

Paul

 

 

Thanks Paul, completely misread your caption and I see now that's in 1989 not 1964! In any case will remove it, not many in the Fawley pictures I've seen ran that clean with the small logo! Would like to achieve something like this

 

IMG-20231209-WA0000.jpg.80726f1354acfcd819a6d9adf8723c30.jpg

 

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Porcy Mane

Porcy Mane

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It looks an excellent model but such a pity that Hornby appear to be going down the generic route with liveries.

 

Would have been a world beating wagon if they had got the solebar, walkway & tank top details correct to match the TTO43F diagram. Hornby proved they could get it right when they published photos of earlier tooling variations. I'll still have a couple to retro to the earlier 13 leaf spring version.

 

How it should have been (with the later parabolic springs).

 

https://flic.kr/p/WYD3yq

 

 

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hmrspaul

hmrspaul

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17 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

It looks an excellent model but such a pity that Hornby appear to be going down the generic route with liveries.

 

Would have been a world beating wagon if they had got the solebar, walkway & tank top details correct to match the TTO43F diagram. Hornby proved they could get it right when they published photos of earlier tooling variations. I'll still have a couple to retro to the earlier 13 leaf spring version.

 

How it should have been (with the later parabolic springs).

 

https://flic.kr/p/WYD3yq

 

 

I don't know about the walkways etc, don't look too bad to me. But what manufacturer of frame/brake rigging have they copied? It doesn't look, from the general photo above, like any of the distinctive three designs used by ESSO which became the 56xxx Series. possibly closest is Chas Roberts - rather like a LNER VB brake rigging https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essochasrobertsa  The others are https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essopowellduffryna  and   https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essopickeringa   Don't overlook that many of these 45T GLW tanks were originally vac braked - including all these ESSO tanks, so it is more than simple Bruninghaus suspension that altered their appearance during the 1980s.

 

Paul 

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Porcy Mane

Porcy Mane

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6 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

I don't know about the walkways etc, don't look too bad to me.

 

Hi Paul,

 

There’s a good series of photographs on Smugmug showing how the walkways and roof detail should be. It starts here:

 

https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/T/TTA-2-axle-tank-wagons/i-fhRSgr9/A

 

and has walkway gems such as this:

 

i-pWgJXHD.jpg

 

Fortunately for us 4mm scale modellers there is the Stenson etch that will go to some way to making things more correct but should we have to correct things on a new tooling? To be fair to Hornby the quote from their blog was, “The new TTA tanker tooling suite accounts for almost all variants in the 35 and 45 tonne capacities”.

 

Got to say, I’m looking forward to the 35t GLW TTA’s.

 

 

6 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

But what manufacturer of frame/brake rigging have they copied? It doesn't look, from the general photo above, like any of the distinctive three designs used by ESSO

 

This is the wagon they measured at Mangapps.

 

https://flic.kr/p/aWgKuF

 

TTO26E (Ex 6/715) built by Powell Duffryn in 1967.  Looks like a pretty good match to me.

 

Hth,

 

P

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Porcy Mane
Correct the Dia. No.
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hmrspaul

hmrspaul

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19 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Hi Paul,

 

There’s a good series of photographs on Smugmug showing how the walkways and roof detail should be. It starts here:

 

https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/T/TTA-2-axle-tank-wagons/i-fhRSgr9/A

 

and has walkway gems such as this:

 

i-pWgJXHD.jpg

 

Fortunately for us 4mm scale modellers there is the Stenson etch that will go to some way to making things more correct but should we have to correct things on a new tooling? To be fair to Hornby the quote from their blog was, “The new TTA tanker tooling suite accounts for almost all variants in the 35 and 45 tonne capacities”.

 

Got to say, I’m looking forward to the 35t GLW TTA’s.

 

 

 

This is the wagon they measured at Mangapps.

 

https://flic.kr/p/aWgKuF

 

TTO26E (Ex 6/715) built by Powell Duffryn in 1967.  Looks like a pretty good match to me.

 

Hth,

 

Thanks for the link to the wagon they measured.

 

I am a bit at a loss to follow this discussion. You are indicating that the wagon is wrong for an ESSO 56xxx series wagon. Well yes, they were built by three different companies, with different brake riggings and vacuum braked. Air braking of these came in the 1980s - so say 20 years after use.

 

The model appears, correctly, to have the brake rigging of the later SMBP, air braked, wagon that you suggest they have copied 67246. The brake rigging differs noticeably to all three ESSO 56xxx wagons. Did they get the walkway wrong? These differ a lot. Yes, I'll accept that the 56xxx all appear to have similar walkways and arrangement of fillers and valves and that there are small differences to the model - and they have modelled the single central end ladder which is distinctive different to SMBP - SUKO67246 (having the more typical double ladders) so did they scan another body? 

 

The walkways do appear to be correct for the later 67246 type - the photos of the BPO Green and SUKO stripe models at Warley show the walkway appears to be similar to as they have modelled for the 56xxx. Your link doesn't show any of the later two ladder type from above, but my photos - admittedly from the side - do show that the cross walkway is at the extreme end beyond both filler and valves https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/suko658xxxtta/e6662d294  This model may be more correct for some of these later SMBP tanks - but it will only be correct for PD original air brake builds. 

 

It is inevitable that a company will use these models generically as mentioned earlier. It is interesting that they have done two bodies, but have they done two frames? There is a reason why the BR Diagram book for TTs is nearly a book on its own! Each manufacturer and each company purchasing wagons seems to have wanted something different - and that is without the complication that BR changed its mind about vacuum or air brakes during the production of these 45t GLW wagons and that both suspension and brakes were altered in the 1980s - and not at the same time. 

 

Lets get some decent detail photos of the models before discussing more.

 

Paul

 

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WCML100

WCML100

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On 28/11/2023 at 11:57, James Makin said:

I've just had the Hornby pre-order notification, they've arrived at the warehouse and ready for despatch, exciting times ahead! 

 

I look forward to weathering these - similarly how much time saving will there be with just a few mods and chucking the Bachmann 'Limpet' or MTA bodies on top, hours saved in grinding out the old suspension units and scratchbuilding the various dangly brake yoke bits 😄


Hi James, so I understand, will you be using the newly released TTA chassis to upgrade the Bachmann MTA wagons? TIA

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James Makin

James Makin

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5 hours ago, WCML100 said:


Hi James, so I understand, will you be using the newly released TTA chassis to upgrade the Bachmann MTA wagons? TIA


Definitely in due course, that is one plan, that and some easy ‘Limpets’, trouble being that I’ve got numerous Bachmann examples of each in the cupboards but the time taken in bringing each underframe up to scratch would take possibly months/years of work on top of the weathering, so it’s a good timesaver for doing a trainload, even if not the cheapest route..!
 

I think I’ve only done about 8 ‘proper’ Limpets in the last 19-odd years since Bachmann did their POA, mainly just down to the boredom of having to add all the chassis gubbins before starting work on the fun stages 😂 

 

I’ll wait to see if the Hornby 2024 announcements yield anything in this direction though, and the new grey TTAs I’ve bought will just be rebranded/weathered up as the tankers that nature intended, to start with!  
 

Cheers,

James

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russellwar

russellwar

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As there are new liveries announced for 24 including the Total ones, can anyone remember the articles on these and what mags they were in. I remember there was some info on rakes and also what routes the different firms would have used.

 

i am curious for Immingham, south Yorks, Nottinghamshire in the early 90’s

 

thanks Russell

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