Do electric trains ever get misrouted?

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

It looks like they send full electric units (class 387) down there on race days, not just bi-mode trains. Doesn't matter that they can't go further than Newbury.

387s work the Reading - Newbury stoppers and have done for quite a while.

[icn]

On 01/03/2023 at 16:46, The Stationmaster said:

It won't couple.  (Which you might have heard somewhere else of course.)

Coupling adapters do exist, but I have no idea if they're carried or stored in convenient locations. And, of course, you need a loco nearby - finding another multiple unit is presumably more convenient as opposed to the only possible solution. And I'm not sure how much hassle the brakes are. And there's that whole topic of multiple coupler types around the UK. I suspect that finding a compatible MU is the preferred solution because it's faster ad easier.

 

Mind you the incompatible coupler issue should go away eventually thanks to the push to standardise on Dellner (interestingly it's reuqired by law for high-speed trains in the EU, but is being done by choice elsewhere I suppose).

[big jim]

1 hour ago, icn said:

 

Mind you the incompatible coupler issue should go away eventually thanks to the push to standardise on Dellner (interestingly it's reuqired by law for high-speed trains in the EU, but is being done by choice elsewhere I suppose).

As long as they various units etc have the same configuration, same height etc, iirc voyagers have the same coupler as a 175 but mounted upside down with the electric box on the top 

 

as it happened 50049 hauled 805001 back to old Dalby from oxley on Thursday with the emergency coupler

 

 

[caradoc]

1 hour ago, icn said:

I suspect that finding a compatible MU is the preferred solution because it's faster ad easier.

 

Very much so; In the Glasgow area the adapter coupling was/is kept at Shields Depot, so using a diesel loco to rescue a stranded EMU required;

Diesel loco (obviously!)

Driver for same (of course), but one who signed the route from the loco's origin point, to Shields Depot, and then to the location of the stranded train - Very often a Route Conductor Driver was also required.

Fitter to attach adapter coupling to loco.

 

Arranging all the above took time, and staff resources, if it was possible at all, which it often was not; And on one occasion we had indeed managed to arrange everything, only for the diesel loco's TOC to then cancel the move because their Driver was not deemed competent in 'traction handling', ie using a diesel to haul an EMU. So yes, using another unit is by far the quickest and simplest move. 

 

 

[icn]

58 minutes ago, big jim said:

As long as they various units etc have the same configuration, same height etc, iirc voyagers have the same coupler as a 175 but mounted upside down with the electric box on the top

 

My (possibly incorrect) understanding is that the electric boxes can be retracted, mind you I have no idea if that's universal or only on specific units. Although another issue seems to be that some couplers have two airpipes and some have only one, which no doubt adds some more things to verify.

 

23 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Very much so; In the Glasgow area the adapter coupling was/is kept at Shields Depot, so using a diesel loco to rescue a stranded EMU required;

Diesel loco (obviously!)

Driver for same (of course), but one who signed the route from the loco's origin point, to Shields Depot, and then to the location of the stranded train - Very often a Route Conductor Driver was also required.

Fitter to attach adapter coupling to loco.

 

Arranging all the above took time, and staff resources, if it was possible at all, which it often was not; And on one occasion we had indeed managed to arrange everything, only for the diesel loco's TOC to then cancel the move because their Driver was not deemed competent in 'traction handling', ie using a diesel to haul an EMU. So yes, using another unit is by far the quickest and simplest move.

Getting away from the UK: in Switzerland they often seem to send in a rescue+firefighting train if an MU has failed. These aren't fitted with autocouplers but I suspect they have a complement of adapters on board. I'm guessing this is only a feasible solution because they need these trains due to the many tunnels, and they'll necessarily be on standby - I haven't heard of anything similar in the UK (Eurotunnel appears to use almost-road-vehicles for firefighting, and normal locos for dragging). It's still a bit surprising, since you'd think that normal MUs will be closer than the nearest rescue train on most occasions, on the other hand requisitioning a passenger vehicle might result in more disruption to schedules - not that a train stuck on the line won't already be disruptive. I guess one advantage of this solution is that the rescue train crew are fully trained in dragging various trains.

Edited March 4, 2023 by icn

[big jim]

16 minutes ago, icn said:

 

My (possibly incorrect) understanding is that the electric boxes can be retracted, mind you I have no idea if that's universal or only on specific units. Although another issue seems to be that some couplers have two airpipes and some have only one, which no doubt adds some more things to verify.

 

 

Yes the boxes can be retracted, used to use a metal bar to lever the box back on older units like sprinters etc but now new stuff like 196s and 805s have a button which holds the boxes in the retracted position as they actually slide forward once coupled now

 

not had the misfortune of having to haul a failed unit so not sure how the brake would work but I seem to remember from the one time I was aboard a unit drag without a translator vehicle that the brake operates in step 3 or emergency only, I may however be getting mixed up with older units with certain safety systems isolated 

 

the latest 69 has a dellner fitted with fixed translator equipment fitted in the centre console in the cab but I’m not trained to use it 

 

sorry for the thread drift 

[jim.snowdon]

It is not uncommon to see reports of AC electric trains routed into sections that have been blocked to electric traction due to being isolated. The question I always ask when one of these is how the signaller is supposed to know whether the train description on his panel is electric or not, especially in these days of not only bi-mode stock but operators who diagram both electric and diesel units on the same services on different days. It's very rare in DC areas, but then anything with a train description that isn't 1, 2 or 5 is almost certainly not going to be electric.

[The Lurker]

On 04/03/2023 at 11:46, bbishop said:

A valid story according to the title, although the trains concerned never left the third rail.  It may interest Ian and other Southern Region enthusiasts.

One evening in the 1960s, Dad was late home because his Main Line slow had been sent down the Dartford Loop into platform 6 at Hither Green.  Everyone decanted from the EPBs, empty stock to Lee, reverse round the loop into the sidings, reverse again into platform 4, and passengers let back on.

Of course in those days, the passengers knew "their" headcodes and the line descriptions; North Kent, Mid Kent and that the Dartford Loop was only the line through Sidcup.

Move forward some 30 years and I was living in Hither Green, stock was Networkers and it was officially the Sidcup Loop.  And the same thing happened.  I got off (obviously) and waited to see how the problem was resolved.  After about five minutes, the doors closed and the loaded train reversed back to the home signal, the points changed and it returned to platform 4.  Simples.  Bill

I have actually travelled round that loop on IIRC 3 times, twice in a down direction and once in the up direction, when commuting from Sidcup. Each time the train was taken down to Grove Park and reversed there, in the Bromley branch platform. I think the up journey diversion was caused by a broken down train in Hither Green platform but I think one of the others may have been caused by a points failure. The journeys were all in Networkers and we were told what was happening. 

[Wickham Green too]

On 04/03/2023 at 11:46, bbishop said:

...  the loaded train reversed back to the home signal, the points changed and it returned to platform 4.  Simples.  

Things aren't always simple with Networkers ...... not far away, I was heading for Waterloo and Eurostar in an eight car set when, for some reason, we stalled on the climb from Ladywell to Parks Bridge and the driver couldn't get us going again ..... eventually they turfed everyone out of the following service, coupled up and dragged us back to the station. I've no idea what happened with either train after that as I legged it to Lewisham as fast as I could go ....... and eventually caught up with the tour group in Wuppertal that evening !

Edited March 6, 2023 by Wickham Green too

[Banger Blue]

On 03/03/2023 at 21:12, St. Simon said:

These aren’t really of use unless the train is at a stand close to the sign and the sign is within sight of the Driver. In fact it wasn’t long after your photo was taken that a 387 tried to do a turn back move on the Westbury lines and went to far. It drew a current through permanently earthed section that protected the work in progress OLE. It went bang…

 

Ironically, I was out track walking roughly where Class 59 is in your photo  on the the day you took that photo (although I’m not in it!) doing surveys for the installation of ‘end of OLE protection’ Packet 44 APCO Eurobalises for Class 80x units.

 

Simon

It was one of the services that had, only very recently, switched over from a diesel unit to an electric unit. Signaller thought it was still operated by a DMU. Driver didn’t see the sign or saw the OLE was there and took the route! 🤦‍♂️

 

At least that’s what I was told in the phone call, I took at the depot, asking to mobilise the Class 57 rescue loco. 😄

[Ken.W]

The arrangement at Colton Jn seems to have been discussed a few times

 

The turnout's 125mph in either direction, so there's a feather for both routes, ECML left and Normanton right, and either direction can be approached on clear greens.

When put in l recall extra bright feathers were fitted which could be clearly seen from a considerable distance.

Then about a decade later, they went and put a row of masts up in front of it so you now get only a few hundred yards sighting of it, and a 91/Mk4 can, from York stop, be approaching at about 110.

As l said to a mate once, if you get the right hand feather, remember those two buttons on the desk, Pan Up, and Panic - pointing at Pan Down

There is a run-off wire onto the Normanton so the Down Main wires wouldn't get ripped down, and on running out of wire the Over Height Valve would drop the pan if it hadn't been already

[roythebus1]

Going back to about 1971 when I was a guard on the District Line, I happened to be late spare one summer's afternoon. A train rattled into the platform at Parsons Green from the Wimbledon direction making more of a banging noise and whistling for the fitter to attend. A couple of us wandered down onto the platform and there was Motorman Chad Morley standing by his CP stock saying "me wheels have fallen off". The flare side of the CP stock was resting on the platform. It was about 1630, Chelsea were at home that night and there were still a lot of school kids about.

 

Long story short, wheel set had fractured and loads of stock had to be examined. Trains were blocked back to Southfields, we had 4 lined up behind the dead train so passengers could be walked through to the platform. I got sent to East Putney with my motorman by bus to run a shuttle service to Wimbledon. To enable this and clear a section someone had to put the 4-rail District Line train away in Wimbledon Park 3-rail depot. Luckily the way in from the station is downhill, so the unit rolled in clear and that's where it stayed for a few days. It took 3 days to clear the failed unit from the eastbound platform, only then could the westbound line be cleared for the passage of trains and a rescue battery loco from Lillie Bridge.

Edited March 8, 2023 by roythebus1

[aictosphotos]

  

On 01/03/2023 at 14:46, uax6 said:

When the Lynn Road was electrified back in the '90's, a 317 was routed at Ely North Junction onto the Peterborough road, which is wired for about 150yds. The driver took the route and coasted to rest a fair way off the wires. 

The rescue consisted of many* 317's being sent from Cambridge to drag it back...

 

* the reports vary from 4 to 12 sets (317's being 4 car units)...

 

Andy G

 

While I can't remember the formation, there was a video of the formation circulating internally that I remember seeing.

 

As to signalling a train into a non live section of OHL, I do remember one Sunday morning being on the first FCC towards Hitchin being operated by a Class 317 and losing power between St Neots and Sandy eventually just limping into the platform at Sandy.

 

What had happened was there was a overnight engineering block on the Up Slow and it was handed back to the signaller with the isolation still active so the signaller signalled the train as booked, the driver took the route which was right but somewhere the person in charge of the engineering block didn't remove the isolating straps from the OHL meaning the entire Up Slow was dead between the two stations.