How many coaches did a Black 5 carry?

[dexterph5]

I'm working on a layout of Scotland in the 1960s and I was wondering how many mk1 coaches to attach to the Black 5 

[Hal Nail]

Worth getting a few books like this, or browse the various online photo libraries.

 

https://www.naval-military-press.com/product/steam-in-scotland-a-portrait-of-the-1950s-and-1960s/

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p129376112/h25382141

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Hal Nail

[uax6]

And it also depends where in Scotland you are thinking about... 

 

Andy G

[JeffP]

Depends on the service.

There are photos on line of black fives in charge of trains ranging from three to thirteen coaches.

[Wheatley]

On a Glasgow - Aberdeen express (before the A4s got there) - 6 or 7. 

On a Stranraer - Newcastle boat train - 7 or 8.

On a Stranraer - Dumfries stopper - 2 (double headed if you want !)

Typical ScR cross country set was 3 or 4 formed BTK/CK/BTK or BTK/CK/TK/BTK. 

 

Find a good photo and follow that. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Wheatley

[Poor Old Bruce]

I once saw what I took to be an ECS working heading north on the WCML north of Preston, a Black 5 with 20 coaches.

[Gordon A]

The number of coaches will depend on the type of service ie local or express and the ruling gradients on the route the train takes.

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

I once saw what I took to be an ECS working heading north on the WCML north of Preston, a Black 5 with 20 coaches.

I rather think it would have needed banking assistance to get up Shap Fell.

[Helmdon]

2 hours ago, JeffP said:

Depends on the service.

There are photos on line of black fives in charge of trains ranging from three to thirteen coaches.

I've certainly seen one working a service train of 2, in the last dying days of the GC extension

[dexterph5]

thanks everyone!

[Steven B]

I count five on this Edinburgh/Stirling train:

 

 

The modern day Jacobite normally loads six or seven behind a Five:

 

Steven B

[adb968008]

As a guide I worked on assumption of 2x power classification + 1 as being max.

 

so a 2MT is good with upto 5

A 5MT is 11…

 

that said I did an s&c trip with 13 and a black 5… sure sounded good, but it was pedestrian… return over shap in snow was one of the few times I thought a diesel pilot might have been sensible… I think VTWC agreed as we looped and 4 pendos passed us.

 

I also rode behind 46443 on the mainline with 6 and it was fine, as was 46441 at Bury on 7.

 

My all time favourite would be 48624 at Cauldon Low on 12.. the sound of a loco throwing its fire out of the chimney the moment the fireman put the coal in it.. burning rocks flying in the night sky… of course the gradient is 1:40 followed by 1:49 and a “gentle” 1:59 over its length, standing start, with a 90 degree curve just to help..

 

on a layout, ive always found an odd number of coaches behind a black 5 on a shorter working looks good… 3 or 5, rather than 4 or 6.

Edited March 15, 2023 by adb968008

[adb968008]

Fyi, here is that video… of Cauldon Low with the 8F.

 

its dark so not a lot to see, but only put the volume 3/4’s… its enough.. 1m 9seconds in the drama starts..

 

its starts with the driver whistling up the attention of leekbrook signal box to get the token ready to exchange without stopping.. then once he has it… the burning rocks start falling…

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by adb968008

[dexterph5]

I'm doing the west highland line, so would 6 be appropriate?

[DCB]

Most photos show Black 5s double headed on the West Highland.   The 2-6-0s were preferred on the Mallaig extension.   It was all a bit daft as a pair of NB Glens could easily manage any train which could fit the loops as could a single K4 but the K4 was too slow along the Clyde coast with its 5ft 2" wheels  and the Glens were old and out of fashion.   A single K4 could take 9 and a pair of black 5s 8 without fouling the loops.  God knows why but they ran double headed 10 coach trains which couldn't pass easily instead of a pair of 6 coach ones which could.    There's nae logic. I can only guess some sassenach sneaked into control and cocked it up .    3 maybe 4 passenger trains a day was regular West Highland service frequency but fish specials and freight were the life blood, there were no locals beyond Craigendoran, everything was an express and stopped at every station.  

[pH]

9 minutes ago, DCB said:

… there were no locals beyond Craigendoran, everything was an express and stopped at every station.  

There was the Craigendoran-Arrochar push-pull local service till 1964.