Hornby A4 identification of Rxxxx number

[Jenny Emily]

I wondered if anyone can help identify the Rxxxx SKU for this model:

 

I recently purchased a Hornby A4 secondhand, but cannot find any reference to it when I do a search. It is 60015 Quicksilver in BR late crest green but not from the R1186 set as this is in a locomotive box with a genuine card insert featuring a picture of this model.
 

Where the Rxxxx SKU would be there is damage, and a label with the loco’s running number has been firmly stuck. 
 

 

The loco is loco driven, with extra pickups on the tender. The tender is the newer tooled version post dating any remains of the tender drive chassis and has a coupling in a NEM pocket. It features an 8pin DCC socket in the loco. 
 

The chassis has cruder valve gear than later models, but the main connecting rods are quite fine and it includes the lubricator drive. 
 

Inside the box the instructions are stamped R2721 but that is for a different liveried A4. Looking at the loco body, it is not a renumber and the numbers have been tampo printed as per any other Hornby A4 with zero signs of renumbering or repainting. The Quicksilver nameplates also match the style as used by Hornby on the other A4s including being located by lugs and glue on the body - there os no sign that these have been off or reglued. 
 

The model is mint and looks to have never been used. 
 

Hopefully someone can identify its catalogue number as my searching has drawn a blank. 
 

[sjp23480]

There appears to be one for sale on eBay right now, but no RXXXX reference and no picture of the box: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225432147979?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1xBOkZs0Q3u&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=saSnTyIOQLy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Steamport Southport]

9 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

There appears to be one for sale on eBay right now, but no RXXXX reference and no picture of the box: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225432147979?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1xBOkZs0Q3u&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=saSnTyIOQLy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

That's an ancient 1970s version I'm afraid. Look at the pony truck and poor detailing.

 

 

Jason

[Knapdale]

R1136 according to Model Rail Database. 
 

https://www.modelraildatabase.com/locomotives/details/3166/

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, Knapdale said:

R1136 according to Model Rail Database. 
 

https://www.modelraildatabase.com/locomotives/details/3166/

 

That was a train set though. This looks like a regular model.

 

Catalogue special maybe? I remember Littlewoods and Kays doing a few Hornby locomotives as exclusives.

 

 

Jason

[melmerby]

That's the Loco from Yorkshire Pullman set, Hence the R1136 number.

See: http://www.hornbyguide.com/search_item_results.asp

 

Edit

The barcode is for another A4 Golden Plover

No other BR green Quicksilver listed

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by melmerby

[micklner]

It looks like a 'bodge" majority of the Valve Gear is from a  Railroad version , no Cab windows, moulded Cab Handrails. Missing Cab Doors .

The R1136 version in the photo has a Railroad Tender, with the large built in Coal moulding using a ex Tender Drive version.

The Box label has been tampered with, very obvious, due to glue remnants showing and the new Running/Loco number added.

Edited May 13, 2023 by micklner

[Jenny Emily]

The card inlay, showing the Hornby model picture, of Quicksilver, is a commercially printed shiny cardstock inlay from a Hornby locomotive box, which points away from the R1186 set which is why I ruled that out. The chassis matches my Golden Plover, is DCC ready, except the valve gear looks cruder. 

[Jenny Emily]

The lack of cab internal printing and windows suggest Railroad, however the boiler handrails are separately applied metal, though the cab handrails are moulded. 
 

what would the Rxxxx of a similar era Railroad type Quicksilver in BR green have been? If such a thing actually existed?  Do the Railroad models have tender pickups, as this one is wired to use them. In any rate, it isn’t in a box that identifies it as being anything other than Super detail.
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Jenny Emily

[melmerby]

It looks like the 2009 model, which has the same sort of loco/tender coupling

Service Sheet R275E

[Jenny Emily]

There are many with that tender coupling, ranging from the early 2000s onwards. I’m looking for its specific Rxxxx number. 

[micklner]

Its a bitsa the number doesnt exist !!🤪

[Steamport Southport]

I'm wondering whether they repackaged some of the unsold train sets.

 

 

 

Jason

[Jenny Emily]

The card inlay showing it as a BR green Quicksilver super detail and DCC ready loco is an actual Hornby one, so it must have come from Hornby as just a loco in a box. 
 

was the R1136 set with a DCC ready super detail loco or not? If not then this isn’t unsold stock from Hornby made for that. 

[melmerby]

11 minutes ago, Jenny Emily said:

The card inlay showing it as a BR green Quicksilver super detail and DCC ready loco is an actual Hornby one, so it must have come from Hornby as just a loco in a box. 

Are you sure it's not a clever fake?

I've had a look at all my Hornby locos with that type of packaging (about 20) and the barcode is pin sharp, not fuzzy also the loco number does not stand out from the background and is not pock marked.

 

EDIT, the loco number is also a different font.

Edited May 13, 2023 by melmerby

[Pint of Adnams]

A search on the usual databases for the barcode/ISBN draws a blank. This earlier thread was about a similar challenge for an A4: Dating Hornby Models - Hornby - RMweb - the main codes are the same, just the individual product code is different.

 

Note the additional information provided, including that for any other 'sticker' on the box.

 

Edit: Note to Andy, why doesn't this forum sw deal automatically with URLs? Others do, so I always forget when on RMWeb.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Pint of Adnams
URL

[Black 5 Bear]

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Are you sure it's not a clever fake?

I've had a look at all my Hornby locos with that type of packaging (about 20) and the barcode is pin sharp, not fuzzy also the loco number does not stand out from the background and is not pock marked.

Having looked at the 

 

13 minutes ago, Jenny Emily said:

The card inlay showing it as a BR green Quicksilver super detail and DCC ready loco is an actual Hornby one, so it must have come from Hornby as just a loco in a box. 
 

was the R1136 set with a DCC ready super detail loco or not? If not then this isn’t unsold stock from Hornby made for that. 

Jenny, the pictures appear to be of a Bachmann product rather than one produced by Hornby. Beware!

[Jenny Emily]

3 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Having looked at the 

 

Jenny, the pictures appear to be of a Bachmann product rather than one produced by Hornby. Beware!

I can assure you that the model is made by Hornby and the internals verify that as seen in the pictures I posted. The other giveaway is having ‘Hornby made in China’ moulded into the bottom. If you look at the internals, they are Hornby. A Bachmann A4 is very different. 
 

I have several Bachmann A4s, and know the differences. 

11 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Are you sure it's not a clever fake?

 

I've had a look at all my Hornby locos with that type of packaging (about 20) and the barcode is pin sharp, not fuzzy also the loco number does not stand out from the background and is not pock marked.

 

EDIT, the loco number is also a different font.

The card is damaged by having had something stuck to it then removed, as seen in the pictures. The Rxxxx would be under the seperately applied sticker with the loco number on, but it is not possible to remove it without destruction of the card underneath. That number has clearly been added by a former owner. 
 

 

[Jenny Emily]

3 hours ago, Knapdale said:

R1136 according to Model Rail Database. 
 

https://www.modelraildatabase.com/locomotives/details/3166/

Having looked closely at the pictures of listings on Ebay, I think you are right that the loco is from that set. The tender must have been swapped from another A4 as the one in the set looks like the awful one with the remains of the tender drive in. 
 

The card inlay is odd as it is a perfect match for my other older super detail Hornby A4s and is printed to the right card stock in a way that could never be replicated by any home printer. The box may well be from whichever A4 that donated its tender, but this inlay is really keeping me puzzled. 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Jenny Emily said:

There are many with that tender coupling, ranging from the early 2000s onwards. I’m looking for its specific Rxxxx number. 

Yes but not with that chassis internals, which seem to start around 2009. Aren't the earlier ones different?

 

[melmerby]

4 minutes ago, Jenny Emily said:

The card inlay is odd

Shouldn't those semi circles actually be cut out?

[Knapdale]

This is a great whodunnit?! I can only find 4 Hornby Quicksilver models: R1136, R2246, R2445 and R3307. And none of these releases matches the packaging or bar code pictured. 

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, Knapdale said:

This is a great whodunnit?! I can only find 4 Hornby Quicksilver models: R1136, R2246, R2445 and R3307. And none of these releases matches the packaging or bar code pictured. 

 

That's why I was thinking it could be a mail order catalogue special. They didn't tend to have R numbers and are often missing from websites such as Hornby Guide.

 

I'll have a look in the Ramsay Guides later.

[Black 5 Bear]

1 hour ago, Jenny Emily said:

I can assure you that the model is made by Hornby and the internals verify that as seen in the pictures I posted. The other giveaway is having ‘Hornby made in China’ moulded into the bottom. If you look at the internals, they are Hornby. A Bachmann A4 is very different. 
 

I have several Bachmann A4s, and know the differences. 

The card is damaged by having had something stuck to it then removed, as seen in the pictures. The Rxxxx would be under the seperately applied sticker with the loco number on, but it is not possible to remove it without destruction of the card underneath. That number has clearly been added by a former owner. 
 

 

Apologies, I misread the posting and was actually referring to the attached eBay A4 by sjp23480.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225432147979?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1xBOkZs0Q3u&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=saSnTyIOQLy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Sorry for any confusion.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Black 5 Bear

[andyman7]

The R number is normally contained in the penultimate 4 figures of the barcode (the barcode number is the 'true' SKU, the 'R' number is something easier for us mere mortals to handle). On that basis this would be R2340 which is actually the the number of the BR A4 'Golden Plover' release.

 

I don't think this is fakery (after all, what would be the point) but it does point to a factory repack of surplus locos from the R1136 set. That would explain the hybrid packaging and the reuse of a BR A4 SKU. My guess would be catalogue house issue.