Telegraph poles - where to obtain them/the bits to build them

[Jack P]

Hi all,

 

Looking for options/suggestions for telegraph poles. I'm not adverse to producing them myself, either from bits or from scratch if need be, but I need a fair few and they have an average of 5 bars each. 

Below is an image that shows the type of pole that I'm trying to replicate. My knowledge in this area is slim to none. 

 

Ready made/off the shelf examples look to be vastly incorrect for what I'm (specifically) after. Happy to be corrected if there's some I've missed though!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Jack P

[Graham108]

A simple Google search - https://www.google.com/search?q=model+telegraph+poles&rlz=1C1CHBF_enGB1040GB1040&oq=model+telegraph+poles&aqs=chrome..69i57.4414j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Jack P]

10 minutes ago, Graham108 said:

A simple Google search - https://www.google.com/search?q=model+telegraph+poles&rlz=1C1CHBF_enGB1040GB1040&oq=model+telegraph+poles&aqs=chrome..69i57.4414j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

I'll amend my post to be more clear. 

 

I'm asking what people who make their own poles do, as I am after a specific type of pole, for which I can find no currently available ready made product. 

My google searching turned up posts that (to my eye) are over/under scale or don't have the correct number of bars for my application.

 

Thanks anyway, I guess. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Jack P

[fulton]

I used brass rod and white metal arms from Wisard Models, a whole subject when you consider any support cables, on my US prototype layout there are 16 poles, only 4 are the same, I used brass for strengh, also in 4mm the plastic ones I could see looked too skinny.

[Dave John]

I had the same issue of requiring a specific pole design. 

 

The method I came up with is shown in this and the subsequent blogs. One of many ways of making them, rather fiddly and time consuming

 

 

[ChrisMitchell]

Masokits supply components for telegraph poles - see https://traders.scalefour.org/masokits/.  Item 8.07

 

I have not used them, so can’t comment on their usefulness for your application. However, based on other items I have used such as the screw couplings, they will excellent though fiddly to put together.

 

Chris

[Wheatley]

There is a review/build article on the Masokits ones in MRJ 200:

 

"David Lane builds some Masokits telegraph poles and discovers at last, a substitute for the uniform moulded plastic offerings in 4mm scale."

 

My etch of BR3 baseplates from the same source has just arrived. I don't know whether to solder them up or polish the etch and frame it.  

[AY Mod]

A good source for insulators (and lovely poles).

 

https://www.expressmodels.co.uk/catalogue/4mm-scale-hand-made-telegraph-poles

[gwrrob]

57 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

A good source for insulators (and lovely poles).

 

https://www.expressmodels.co.uk/catalogue/4mm-scale-hand-made-telegraph-poles

 

Highly recommended and good value.

[uax6]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

A good source for insulators (and lovely poles).

 

https://www.expressmodels.co.uk/catalogue/4mm-scale-hand-made-telegraph-poles

 

Not so sure they are that lovely to be honest, far too many insulators on the arms (They are arms, not bars!) and why so many J brackets? No arm braces either. Its like they have never seen a pole with arms before...

 

Now if only I could find the post that I did some years back that had scans of the Engineering Instructions of the GPO for poles, which is relevant as the railways and the GPO followed 'best practice'...

 

Andy G

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by uax6

[uax6]

Here we go: 

Some of the GPO EI's:

 

C3001 Carrying capacity of poles.pdf

C3251 Construction of A and H poles.pdf

C3126 use of stays and struts.pdf

C3501 Arming of poles.pdf

C3511 Arming misc fittings.pdf

C3552 Arming of wood poles.pdf

C3301 Terminal and Distribution poles.pdf

 

These should shed a bit of light on the subject, and show what poles should look like....

 

Andy G

 

Edit:

Some light reading on Insulators:

Insulators.pdf

E3035 Wiring insulators.pdf

Edited May 25, 2023 by uax6

[Reorte]

Sorry for the off-topic wander, but when were any last used? The last time I saw any the wires didn't seem continuous, and looked abandoned, and the remaining traditionally-signalled areas I assume are still sending the same bell codes but through wires at ground level (in trunking?), with no poles usually left.

[uax6]

The last route on NR with open bare wires was Ely-Norwich (well Shippea Hill - Wymondham) which lasted until about 2006-7. 

On BT, if you look about, there are still houses fed on open 'pairs' from the final pole... The main routes went in the mid to late 80's.

 

Andy G

[ChrisMitchell]

Thought this might be worth of some exploration…..

 

https://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org

[TheQ]

The other question is what scale? Makes a big difference as to what to use.

 

Cocktail sticks, barbeque sticks, match sticks all can be used in various scales. Isolators made from cut pieces of plasticard rod.

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Highly recommended and good value.

Totally agree and adaptable too.  Really inexpensive for what they are.

Philth

[4069]

For Pendon's poles I used Express Models insulators (three thousand of them) on arms made from 1 mm square plastic strip, and poles made from brass rod. The crucial aspect is to cut the slots in the poles at precisely regular intervals so that the arms are evenly spaced- get that wrong and they look a mess. Results are in the eye of the beholder. Step irons and arm braces have not been modelled as (along with the wires themselves) if they were visible they would be overscale. It's possible that guy wires may be added some day, if I live long enough.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by 4069
Better pictures added (yes, there is a trap point missing in the last one. It will be added.)

[Dave John]

I used the Express models insulators too. 

 

3000 is fanatical, they do look the part though. 

[uax6]

For some LNER instructions visit:

https://dickthesignals.co.uk/onewebmedia/LNER tech instrns - sig & coms.pdf

 

From page 49 onwards its about pole routes.

 

Andy G

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

Not so sure they are that lovely to be honest, far too many insulators on the arms (They are arms, not bars!) and why so many J brackets? No arm braces either. Its like they have never seen a pole with arms before...

 

Now if only I could find the post that I did some years back that had scans of the Engineering Instructions of the GPO for poles, which is relevant as the railways and the GPO followed 'best practice'...

 

Andy G

 

 

The top arm is also incorrectly arranged because it was normally used for block circuits so wouldn't have anything like that many insulators on it - of any type.  

 

18 hours ago, Reorte said:

Sorry for the off-topic wander, but when were any last used? The last time I saw any the wires didn't seem continuous, and looked abandoned, and the remaining traditionally-signalled areas I assume are still sending the same bell codes but through wires at ground level (in trunking?), with no poles usually left.

Pole routes strated to disappear on amore widespread basis during the 1960s - for example the route on our branch was replaced by cable in the early/mid 1960s and the same was going on on the GWML in certain areas from about that time.

 

Don't forget that the poles carried a variety of lines - some for block circiuits (top arm in best practice),  Then descending from the top arm -telephone circuits, telegraph circuits, and at the bottom things like lamp and arm repeater circuits.   On a trunk route the poles would be carrying long distance 'phone and telegraph circuits so many arms could be involved and in some cases there could be routes on both sides of the running lines if large numbers of 'phone and telegraph circuits needed to be accommodated.

 

O On branch lines of course the number of circuits would be much reduced with probably no more - in earlier days - than a couple of omnibus 'phone s circuits and a very limited number of block circuits.

[Welly]

18 hours ago, uax6 said:

The last route on NR with open bare wires was Ely-Norwich (well Shippea Hill - Wymondham) which lasted until about 2006-7.

I travelled that line back in Autumn 2002 and was very struck by how "steam age" the line looked with those wires!

[Michael Hodgson]

On 25/05/2023 at 18:21, uax6 said:

The last route on NR with open bare wires was Ely-Norwich (well Shippea Hill - Wymondham) which lasted until about 2006-7. 

On BT, if you look about, there are still houses fed on open 'pairs' from the final pole... The main routes went in the mid to late 80's.

 

Andy G

Circuits both to the east of Elgin and to the West of the station (although not in the station area itself) appeared still to be partly on pole route in 2010.  My understanding was that whenever bad weather brought cables down, the affected stretch was being replaced piecemeal with lineside cables.  The cables in these photos could of course have been disconnected and the old wires not yet recovered.

 

[Jack P]

Thanks all for your advice & info so far. 

 

 

On 26/05/2023 at 09:21, 4069 said:

For Pendon's poles I used Express Models insulators (three thousand of them) on arms made from 1 mm square plastic strip, and poles made from brass rod. The crucial aspect is to cut the slots in the poles at precisely regular intervals so that the arms are evenly spaced- get that wrong and they look a mess. Results are in the eye of the beholder. Step irons and arm braces have not been modelled as (along with the wires themselves) if they were visible they would be overscale. It's possible that guy wires may be added some day, if I live long enough.

 

If they're good enough for Pendon, then they're absolutely good enough for me. 

 

Is express models still trading? There doesn't seem to be any suggestion that they aren't, but there haven't been any updates on their web-page since 2020.

Both insulator types are currently out of stock, but I suppose that's understandable if they've run 3000 of them off for Pendon! (I suspect that was probably some time ago though)

[uax6]

You'll mainly be wanting the longer bodied insulators from them, I can't for the life of me work out what their short bodied ones are supposed to represent, maybe the 240V electrical insulators for o/head feeds into houses?

And only use the J hangers for terminal poles, everything else should be on straight bolts.

 

Andy G

[iands]

4 hours ago, uax6 said:

And only use the J hangers for terminal poles, everything else should be on straight bolts.

 

Andy G

Agreed, unless anyone models a 'U' bolt or double 'J' bolt, then you can have 'transposition' circuits as shown in the photo of  @Jack P's OP. Also, again if anyone models one, you could have a saddle iron/bolt that sits on the very top of the pole (on top of the 'tin hat'), typically used for the block bell circuit that had 'earth return', not used everywhere, but certainly on 'secondary routes/branch lines' in the north east.