Telegraph poles - where to obtain them/the bits to build them

[jim.snowdon]

On 26/05/2023 at 12:58, The Stationmaster said:

On a trunk route the poles would be carrying long distance 'phone and telegraph circuits so many arms could be involved and in some cases there could be routes on both sides of the running lines if large numbers of 'phone and telegraph circuits needed to be accommodated.

The GPO made use of both the railways and the canals for trunk routes, essentially because a considerable mileage could be covered under a single wayleave, eliminating the need to negotiate with multiple authorities. On railway routes, there is the added complication of who maintains what. The GPO would not want railway linemen in amongst their circuits, or vice versa, and who would be responsible for the poles. Much easier to keep them separate. 
 

[AY Mod]

14 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

The GPO made use of both the railways and the canals for trunk routes

 

A grade 2 listing protected pole?

 

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1406777

 

 

[Mallard60022]

On 25/05/2023 at 22:21, 4069 said:

For Pendon's poles I used Express Models insulators (three thousand of them) on arms made from 1 mm square plastic strip, and poles made from brass rod. The crucial aspect is to cut the slots in the poles at precisely regular intervals so that the arms are evenly spaced- get that wrong and they look a mess. Results are in the eye of the beholder. Step irons and arm braces have not been modelled as (along with the wires themselves) if they were visible they would be overscale. It's possible that guy wires may be added some day, if I live long enough.

 

 

 

 

Lovely work of course.

For the position and cutting of the slots in Poles, I used a template on a slim strip of wood with a slot for the Brass Tube/Rod to lie in, with about 1/4 left exposed. Each slot had two marks across the Slot, the width of the Cross Bar & about 0.5m deep, made with a Modellers Saw and then I cut them with the same sort of modellers saw, sitting in the slots. OK that's if you want a set of almost identical Poles. Obviously cutting needs to be careful so I clamped the Pole with Strong Tape to stop it twisting. Check after each cut. 

However that template Block could have several designs on it. 

However, my Brass Poles had RTR Whitemetal Cross Bars with Pots fitted. There were only 5 IIRC and they went to Peterborough North. Each was adapted to look like the ones at the actual place (photos) in 1958 ish.

You could use Brass section as Cross Bars and solder them if you wanted. How the heck you attach yer Pots I do not know...sorry.

Phil

[The Stationmaster]

On 29/05/2023 at 14:32, jim.snowdon said:

The GPO made use of both the railways and the canals for trunk routes, essentially because a considerable mileage could be covered under a single wayleave, eliminating the need to negotiate with multiple authorities. On railway routes, there is the added complication of who maintains what. The GPO would not want railway linemen in amongst their circuits, or vice versa, and who would be responsible for the poles. Much easier to keep them separate. 
 

Yes.  But I was talking about railway telephone circuits.  Don't forget that between them the pre-nationalisation railways had the biggest private telephone and telegraph network in the country.  And BR's was even bigger especially after the introduction of ETD (Extension Trunk Dialling) although by then its 'phone routes were being increasingly cabled, especially trunk. routes.

[Enfys_Rainbow]

I made my own, but used Express Models insulators:

 

 

 

Good enough for me, although not as complex as your prototype ones.

 

I'd like more insulators too, however it seems they've been out of stock for at least two years unfortunately based on my checking of their website.

 

Matt

 

[Vanfit]

Having been a young lad in a pole route gang in a WR depot with responsibility for maintenance and more often repair of pole routes this thread brings back some memories, the most common issue we dealt with was replacing poles that had rotted where they went into the ground and being held up only by the line wires. However, generally, day to day faulting of the line wires was the responsibility of the local lineman/signalling technician.

 

As well as telegraph and signalling circuits pole routes might also carry power feeds at 110V AC or 240v(!) generally to supply battery chargers for such items as motor worked semaphores or colour light signals. Typically for distant or IBS signals, sometimes for point machines. As a note for modellers if you have a colour light signal on your ‘mechanically’ signalled area you might want to think about how you get the mains power supply feed to it.

 

In country areas I can recall instances where the electrical supply authority provided a dedicated overhead supply with poles across fields etc to a cabinet at the railway fence containing a meter and transformer, door on each side, one for the supply authority and one for the railway signalling technician, although often the responsibility for the cupboard and associated equipment was with the Outdoor Machinery Electricians.

 

For the railway pole route any circuits at 110v or above should have red coloured insulators wide spaced on separate arms, often as the lowest arm but not always.

 

As regards positioning the arms, for all circuits GWR/WR practice was to have all the arms on the London or Up side of the pole.

 

If modelling the GWR/WR then only 2 steps generally provided on the pole for the lineman, leg climbing irons and thick leather belt were used to climb the pole, the steps (if provided) were to stand on, however on a pole with multiple arms this was not very useful and we would often stand on the arms. Other railways were sometimes more generous in their provision of steps.

 

[iands]

I agree with your comments @Vanfit. I have very similar memories when I was a trainee at York in the mid-1970s. I had about 5-6 months with the telegraph gang, and unusually at that time, for 90% of the time we were doing 'telegraph gang' work', i.e. actually renewing the pole routes rather than being utilised as 'general labourers' laying concrete troughing etc.

[Wheatley]

14 hours ago, Vanfit said:

In country areas I can recall instances where the electrical supply authority provided a dedicated overhead supply with poles across fields etc to a cabinet at the railway fence containing a meter and transformer, door on each side, one for the supply authority and one for the railway signalling technician, although often the responsibility for the cupboard and associated equipment was with the Outdoor Machinery Electricians.

 

As an Operating Supervisor in the 1990s I spent some time finding meters where RRNE was still paying a standing charge  but not racking up any KWH, or where electricity was being used but no-one new what it was feeding, or where we'd been getting an estimated bill for years but no-one knew where the meter was.  The LMR had never bothered to check them out and was just paying the bills A lot of these were for colour light distants, and several of them were found by following pole routes across fields with a bloke from Norweb. We also found a couple of former railway cottages which had been sold on but had been getting free electricity for years, and I made myself very unpopular with the PW by having their permanently on (!) 2KW fire in a hut halfway up Malletstang disconnected, thus depriving the patrolman of the opportunity to warm his backside once a week. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Wheatley

[Penlan]

I used wooden skewers for poles, with 1mm square brass arms, drilled with a hole to take a soldered in wire through the centre of the arm and through the pole.  the pots are 0.3mm wire soldered into holes drilled through the arms, with a piece of plastic wire sheathing to represent the pots.
It should be noted I'm modelling the earlier type of arms etc., suitable for my circa 1910 layout.
I also used the 'Railway Signalling and Communications' book published by Peter Kay many years ago to get the correct way round etc., of the terminal pots.

 

[Penlan]

There are a number of things in modelling that annoy me, one is when I look at a line of telegraph poles on a layout - and lets NOT get into spacing, please -  is that if there were actual wires between the poles, they would be chopped off by somersault signals, go through roofs (even buildings), through the middle of trees etc., etc., it doesn't take much to check the alignment of the poles and the location of the where the wires would run.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Googling "3d printed telephone poles" throws up some interesting options.

 

Mike.

[bécasse]

I have appended a hopefully readable sketch drawing noting the basic dimensions of the guying for telegraph poles. The sketch was made well over half-a-century ago. Railway TPs were more likely to be guyed than GPO ones, usually with a single guy except perhaps at a tight turn, and many poles on straight sheltered stretches wouldn't have been guyed at all.

pdf copy for downloading:

TelegraphPoleGuys.pdf