What was the last BIG main line station to lose its semaphores?

[beast66606]

Ely had semaphores until 1985, Cambridge until 1982

[Dagworth]

Ipswich lost the semaphores north of the station in the 1984 resignalling although the station had been colour light for many years before that. 
 

Andi

[MidlandRed]

Hastings had them within the last 10 years - I haven’t been there recently - not sure if they’re still there. 

[melmerby]

How about Barnetby? Lasted to about 2015.

4 Platforms services to Leicester, Sheffield, Manchester & Liverpool.

Journeys of up to 3hrs using such stock as the TPE class 68 combo.

[Michael Hodgson]

13 hours ago, melmerby said:

How about Barnetby? Lasted to about 2015.

4 Platforms services to Leicester, Sheffield, Manchester & Liverpool.

Journeys of up to 3hrs using such stock as the TPE class 68 combo.

Yes, but the signals looking away from Barnetby were much more impressive

Edited June 3, 2023 by Michael Hodgson

[D7666]

Extending scope a bit into electro mechanical / miniature lever signal boxes, are there any main line mini levers left, whether they control colour lights or not ?

 

Liverpool was mini levers but has gone, and I am not sure if there are any left in the former SR area, that had a lo once. But is Dorking box still extant ? I have had a quick look and can't seem to find any sure info either way.

 

I know there are full size mechanical levers at sites like Stockport; that is not what I am commenting on which is solely mini lever frames.

 

There are only 3? mini lever boxes left on LU - Harrow On The Hill, Rayners Lane and Rickmansworth. The other remaining boxes (ok ok cabins in LU parlance) are Amersham and Upminster that are push buttons. All the rest of LU is either remote interlockings centrally controlled with assorted technology levels of central control of push button / not ATO / ATO depending which one you look at.

 

Reason I mention this is colour light signals do not necessarily mean there is no "mechanical" signalling equipment - there being quite a difference in semaphore signals and mechanical kit behind a signal that could be semaphore or colour light (*** or even ATO). There are still some very large and very complex mechanical interlockings all be remotely controlled. The two biggest are Neasden and Wembley Park; I forget which is which but one 'big' is the most complex interlocking in terms of routes, the other 'big' is the largest number of levers.

 

These are Westinghouse V interlockings; there is not much on V types on the web

https://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/Wembley_Park_IMR_Vframe2008.html

has some data but the images appear to have been lost :( as I supplied some

https://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/index_V.html

 

 

*** The original 1967 ATO was achieved entirely with mechanical interlocking and relays; despite what the publicity and urban legends say, no train protection and movement authority was done by "computer"; the codes transmitted to the trains were generated from relay kit linked to mechanical interlocking and or track circuit relays; the only "computer" involved were timetable servers.

[Oldddudders]

14 hours ago, D7666 said:

But is Dorking box still extant ? I have had a quick look and can't seem to find any sure info either way.

Dorking North box was a new glasshouse for the 1938 electrification of the Mid-Sussex route, but it had levers, not miniature levers, operating multiple-aspect colour lights and power-operated points. Train working was ABS in both directions. 

 

A colleague was SM there in the mid-70s, and was disappointed to see the levers were rusty, so he issued wire wool, for the cleaning of. Great idea, and the levers shone - but little bits of wire wool fell through into the electrical locking w dire results....

[phil-b259]

14 hours ago, D7666 said:

Extending scope a bit into electro mechanical / miniature lever signal boxes, are there any main line mini levers left, whether they control colour lights or not ?

 

Liverpool was mini levers but has gone, and I am not sure if there are any left in the former SR area, that had a lo once. But is Dorking box still extant ? I have had a quick look and can't seem to find any sure info either way.

 

 

Dorking box has a traditional full size lever frame.

 

There is still one mini lever frame still in opperation on the region though - Maidstone East. Since the resignalling of Liverpool Lime Street a couple of years ago it is now the last mini lever frame still in use on Network Rail!

 

see https://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/Maidstone_East.html

 

However Maidstone East also has a small NX Pannel - with a ‘gap’ in the middle of it! This is because the line to the east and west of Maidstone was still mechanically signaled at the time the mini lever frame was commissioned and when BR wanted to get rid of the mechanical boxes in the 80s putting in a small NX panel at Maidstone (but leaving the mini-lever frame intact) was the easiest and cheapest option. 
 

There are currently no plans to replace Maidstone East - in the early 1990s it was envisaged that Ashford IECC would take over the route but once the work on the core route used by Eurostar was completed funds dried up!

Edited June 4, 2023 by phil-b259

[Michael Hodgson]

Dorking box described here

https://signalbox.org/photo-gallery/southern-railway/dorking/

 

I doubt the two-position blocks are still there though.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Dorking North box was a new glasshouse for the 1938 electrification of the Mid-Sussex route, but it had levers, not miniature levers, operating multiple-aspect colour lights and power-operated points. Train working was ABS in both directions. 

 

A colleague was SM there in the mid-70s, and was disappointed to see the levers were rusty, so he issued wire wool, for the cleaning of. Great idea, and the levers shone - but little bits of wire wool fell through into the electrical locking w dire results....

One of my Signalmen used to keep a carefully hidden chain buff which he used to clean lever handles - until the Techs found some tiny pieces of metal 'filings' inside a circuit controller.  put 2  and 2 together and shouted 'FOUL'.  The Techs then dragged me in as they were fairly sure who the cul[rit was and they left me to talke him to task.  Fortunately he coughed up immediately I challenged him and he was duly instructed to get rid of the chain buff, which he did.

[Michael Hodgson]

Sounds like the story I heard about the railway recruiting demobbed NCOs after WW2.  They employed this sailor who knew what you do with a wooden deck.  So he duly swabbed the box floor regularly, but the levers got stiffer and stiffer till S&T had to be called who found a lot of rust on the frame!

[Rivercider]

Exeter Panel Signal Box was one of the later ones.

Exeter St David's lost the semaphores in spring 1985, with Newton Abbot and Taunton losing theirs in 1987,

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

Long gone but in its later ywears unique was Reading Main line East 'box.  During WWII the new junction to teh SR was added and to control it Main Kine East was given an SGE miniature electric lever frame in addition to the existing mechanical frame.  

 

So it than had two different types of signal control equipment.  But in the first stage of the Reading - Hayes MAS scheme implemented in February 1961 it was also given an NX panel to control the area from Kennet Bridge - just east of the WWII  New junction to, on the Down Lines, just east of Woodley Bridge.  A standarda WR Integra NX panel was udsed but it was mounted on a couple of 'legs' so it sat between the top of severl levers but below the block.  

 

So the 'box then had three different types of control but, even more unusually semaphore signals worked, respectib vely by the mechanical frame and the power had lower arm distants for colour light signals worked or supervised by the NX panel.

 

Panels in the same signal box working in assocaiaion with a lever frame were not unusual and numerous example were created on several BR Regions during resignalling programmes in the 1960s while some predated that. But the combination of all three methods was very unusual and definitely unique on the WR

[D7666]

TY did not realise Dorking full levers.

 

 

 

PS

I find it a bit odd some of the suggested answers to this OP question are going back 30-40 years to 1980s resignalling when there are several candidates this century.

 

[Rivercider]

1 hour ago, D7666 said:

TY did not realise Dorking full levers.

 

 

 

PS

I find it a bit odd some of the suggested answers to this OP question are going back 30-40 years to 1980s resignalling when there are several candidates this century.

 

That is RMweb thread drift for you, I plead guilty as charged.

 

Mind you we could have a whole new discussion as to what constitutes a 'big' station, and by 'intercity' do we only count Inter-City/Intercity/Inter-city services?

 

cheers

Edited June 4, 2023 by Rivercider
tidying up.

[The Stationmaster]

12 minutes ago, D7666 said:

TY did not realise Dorking full levers.

 

 

 

PS

I find it a bit odd some of the suggested answers to this OP question are going back 30-40 years to 1980s resignalling when there are several candidates this century.

 

In many respects it really depends on what. you regard as 'a big station' - and most of the really big stations gained colour lights quite a time back.  Having grown up not far from a quadruple track main line I, for example, don't regard a place with four running lines and four platform faces as 'big' but just a passing station with four tracks - of which there used to be umpteen in Britain and still are plenty on various main line routes.

 

Similarly when it comes to mechanical signal boxes I would tend to regard those with fewer than 50 levers as not particularly complex.   Whist at 'a large station' I'd be looking for a place with at least two boxes with both having a lot  more than 50 levers (or possibly in extremis having once been like that before rationalisation bit)      And there aren't many stations still in that sort of category with semaphore signalling or partially equipped with colour lights worked by the original boxes.  And there weren't very many lasting into this century that fell into that sort of category hence people looking further back for the 'last large station'.     

[D7666]

OK well yes there was some vagueness about 'big'.

[Michael Hodgson]

8 minutes ago, D7666 said:

OK well yes there was some vagueness about 'big'.

I would tend to go with Mike's classification of big as implying complexity and a lot of levers, possibly in multiple signal boxes, but the OP did define big somewhat arbitrarily as "multi-platform (ie more than one in each direction) non-terminus station being on main line, serving several routes, one of which (has or does) provided Intercity services".  That would exclude as place like Waterloo but include any wayside two track station with a bay platform serving a shuttle on a single line branch.

 

A lot of the stations mentioned above are termini or don't serve many routes, and some recently surviving semaphore areas that I would call big (eg Immingham) didn't even have passenger services.

[Edwin_m]

How many stations still have more than one box, say within sight on the platforms?  Off the top I can only think of Stockport and Shrewsbury.  

[iands]

43 minutes ago, Edwin_m said:

How many stations still have more than one box, say within sight on the platforms?  Off the top I can only think of Stockport and Shrewsbury.  

Bedlington? Okay the platform is 'out-of-use', but if you stood on it you can see both Bedlington North and South SBs.

[Michael Hodgson]

Point motors removed the rodding run limitations that forced multiple boxes in a small geographical area, and the saving in wages (three shifts a day plus rest day/sickness cover) generally more than outweighed the cost of installing them.  They must also have reduced compensation claims for back injuries.  The only reason these savings didn't happen a lot sooner was shortage of funds for capital investment.

[phil-b259]

9 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Dorking box described here

https://signalbox.org/photo-gallery/southern-railway/dorking/

 

I doubt the two-position blocks are still there though.

 

Nope, Track circuit block southward towards Horsham after the resignalling in the early 2000s

 

Northwards towards leatherhead has been TCB since the 1970s or 80s

 

Also as has been noted before, when the area was resignalled by the Southern Railway back in 1938 and the new bocx was built the outside kit was all electric (colour lights, point machines and solenoid worked shunts. Horsham box (built at the dsame time was the same - all elctric outside but witha traditional full size lever frame.

[D7666]

3 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

How many stations still have more than one box, say within sight on the platforms?  Off the top I can only think of Stockport and Shrewsbury.  

😁

Bewdley ?

 

Yeh yeh I bet that SVR and other preserved lines were not in scope for the question; I could not resist though.

Edited June 4, 2023 by D7666

[Bon Accord]

 

4 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

How many stations still have more than one box, say within sight on the platforms?  Off the top I can only think of Stockport and Shrewsbury.  

 

Stirling again.

Stirling North (48 levers) and Stirling Middle (96 levers) are both visible from the station as they're sited directly North/South.

[Matt37268]

1 hour ago, D7666 said:

😁

Bewdley ?

 

Yeh yeh I bet that SVR and other preserved lines were not in scope for the question; I could not resist though.

If we’re going down that Road I’ll nominate Kidderminster and Sheringham 😜