What would be the life expectancy for a card building?

[AyJay]

After a recent visit to see 'Madder Valley' a thought occurred to me: 

How long should a card building last for, what are the likely failure modes and what can be done to keep them looking good for longer?

 

Now of course, Madder Valley is a rare exception.  I am talking about my, and your, working layouts.

Kept in a normal domestic environment, handled and exposed to all the usual hazzards.

Except mine is in a 'garden room', hot in summer and cold in winter. Possible changes in humidity. Needing regular use of the Dyson to keep down the dust. Prior to the fitting of blinds, exposed to the morning sun.

 

I started off with Metcalf kits, then graduated onto scratch building; thick card from Hobbycraft, brick paper from Scale Model Scenery, PVA glue, Pritt sticks and UHU, the occasional brushing of acrylic or watercolour paint.   As an experiment, I did take a surplus Metcalf building and sprayed it with matt varnish; the jury is out on that one.

 

So, will my pride an joy fall apart or disintegrate in a few years? Should I use different materials or coat them in something, inside and out?  Whenever possible, I leave the doors open during summer days.

 

Has anyone any understanding of the issues/forces at work here?

Thank you.

[phil_sutters]

One element of deterioration is fading. I built a 1/36th scale model of our local church, for the benefit of their Sunday school, using home printed stone and tile papers. It was finished with rattle can matt varnish.  That was in 2012. The last time I saw it, a couple of years ago, the papers had faded significantly. It had not been kept in sunlight. It is not just card and paper that can have longevity issues. Some plastics go brittle in time and some go yellow. Some windows can curl up and die, if made of one of the thinner materials. Some of my 1960s carved up Triang clerestory coach windows need replacing. But then they are 60 or so years old. How long do you want your models to survive for?

[Nearholmer]

In a way, I think the OP has answered his of her own question, in that longevity of card models, most things n fact, depends greatly, but not entirely, on the environment in which they are kept.

 

Paper and card are very internally stable materials if kept in a typical indoor domestic environment. I’m looking at my bookshelf right now, and it’s full of books made from paper and card, many well over a century old and in good condition. I’ve also got several commercially-made model locos and wagons in their original 1930s -1950s boxes, made from the very cheapest sort of cardboard, and although those boxes are now fragile to varying degrees from handling, most aren’t yet disintegrating.

 

The obvious enemies are damp and UV  - I’m not convinced that temperature, within quite wide limits, alone is all that bad for card, because it doesn’t expand and contract much with dry heat.

 

If I was to build card models to last a very long time, I would choose good quality cards, glues that are known to last well (talk to a bookbinder perhaps, although PVA and aliphatic resin seem to last decades without trouble), and probably paints, rather than printed inks. One of the virtues of paint, well applied, is that it seals against humidity. Applying shellac or a similar coating can do the same job, because it soaks in, then dries, leaving no place for water from the air to bind into the card.
 

It’s not hugely different from model-making in wood, of which I’ve done a fair bit over the years. Ply and strip-wood constructions seem to last very well indeed without problems, throwing up far fewer concerns than styrene, and in fact I’d probably not choose card at all, but ‘model aircraft ply’, which can be had in thicknesses (thinnesses?) suitable for the vast majority of jobs that one would do with card.

 

Think antique shops to get an idea of what small things last a long time without much attention in domestic settings: books; wooden trinket boxes and the like; anything made from metals, especially non-ferrous metals. Bakelite is doing well, provided it is protected from impacts, other thermo-set plastics are good, but the jury is out on many thermo-plastics of less than top grade.

[RodneyS]

I have a few Bilteezi and Superquick models made in the 1960s and they are still in one piece.

Some were reinforced with balsa wood and I think I used balsa cement as that was all I had at the time.

I also made a couple of Prototype models buildings, probably in the 70s and they are still in one piece.  I'm not sure what glue I used then.

 

The only problem I've had with one Bilteezi model (low relief shops) is what I believe is called foxing.  This has brown marks which have got worse over time and is similar to the marks that appear on some old books.  Realistic weathering ?

The others appear to be fine so perhaps it was just that batch of card.

Rodney

 

[DCB]

The Superquick and Metcalfe kits last pretty well if kept in the dark, even longer if kept in their packaging and not built. I have some Superquick kits the ones with printed windows built over 40 years ago  still serviceable but the layout is in a shed with few windows and the blinds down  and the lights off all but about a few hours a week.   If you want longevity then the  unbuilt old stock Superquick kits seem a good starting point, and Metalfe though I don't think they have been around anything like as long  though some of mine are near perfect after 20 odd years.

Conversely.  I have some home made brick papers / Station names and advertisements made on computer and printed on very large and expensive photocopiers which kept in the same conditions in a shed with few windows and the blinds down have faded very badly, even compared to  Superquick kits the ones with printed windows built over 40 years ago.  I also have some tunnel mouths made by a professional artist in card with the bricks painted individually in acrylics  which are still just about perfect.
John Ahearn wrote articles about his construction techniques on Madder Valley so following them is a good start.
Card kits don't like getting wet. Our roof leaked and a Metcalfe engine shed was ruined, well some of  was and the rest became a low relief factory.  The card does need reinforcing where it is load bearing, I use 1/4" square wood, no idea what breed but it's not balsa and its reclaimed not brand new un seasoned as the DIY shop stuff warps.  I usually put LEDs in card buildings, and interior walls so individual rooms are light or dark but I never put resistors in card buildings,  I have seen too many scorch marks where resistors have run hot.
Nothing survives bright sunlight. Will kits go brittle, Triang/ Hornby plastic bodies and Airfix kits go soft and warp, Lithographed tin fades or goes dark, Wood dries and splits unless well painted, even wooden baseboard frames warp in bright sunlight.   

The safest course is probably to use 60 year old construction techniques where they have proved successful and leave the experiments to someone else

[Nearholmer]

P

16 minutes ago, DCB said:

The safest course is probably to use 60 year old construction techniques where they have proved successful and leave the experiments to someone else

That is very sound advice, and exactly how I approach my deliberately old-fashioned modelling.

[brossard]

I made some Scalescenes buildings for the club layout some time ago, possibly 20 years.  These are still intact and don't appear to have faded.

 

Using matte varnish to seal the print is a good way to extend the life.

 

One of my pet peeves when viewing a layout is the state of the buildings.  Exhibition layouts go through some rough and tumble and buildings do get damaged.  I get very annoyed to see buildings in a decrepit condition.  Repairing buildings is not as glamorous as locos I suppose yet it is important.

 

John

[DCB]

27 minutes ago, brossard said:

Using matte varnish to seal the print is a good way to extend the life.

 

John

Can you suggest a suitable product please?

[brossard]

Well, I like Krylon which is available in art and office supply stores.  Here's an example I found:

 

https://www.techsil.co.uk/krylon-clear-matte-protective-finish-11oz

 

I note that Vallejo have something similar but I haven't tried that.

 

John

[fulton]

I have buildings now 50 years old, no sign of deterioration, used mounting board for the main structure and "post card" type card for details and shiplap, all glued with PVA, painted with Humbrol enamel paint, no other sealer, stored variously in a trailer, shed or garage. On my current building I have Scalescenes brick downloads printed on to card, sealed with Hobby Craft acrylic sealer, I wonder how that will last? I did have some Pendon enamel signs which literally turned to dust after 20 years!

[t-b-g]

Some of the buildings on Buckingham are now 76 years old and apart from the odd bit of damage from clumsiness in track cleaning or suchlike are as good as the day they were made.

 

There is little or no fading but back in the day, the papers would have been printed using inks and techniques that are probably no longer used.

 

The layout has, for most of its life, been in a room with windows covered and no natural light.

[Nearholmer]

I should have mentioned this fine piece of model-making when I was banging on about the virtues of painted wood.

 

It was made c1975-1981BC.

 

 

It also includes linen, plaster, and copper wire apparently. Possibly not cardboard though.

 

 

[cessna152towser]

I salvaged this little building from a club layout which I helped to dismantle back in 1969.   It has been on my current layout since I constructed the layout in 1989.   There are some plastic bits, windows, doors, gutters etc, but the basic structure appears to be a very thin balsa wood rather than card.

[MyRule1]

Most of the OP's questions have now been answered, my own take.

 

I don't think colouring method has been mentioned, many currently made kits now rely on ink jet printing, whereas earlier models used old paints / water colours - think how long old painting last, or commercial printing.

 

Two extremes from me:

 

My earliest modelling memories are my father making Micromodel card kits in the late 1950's and I still have a number of these and they are not faded and intact - I don't know what glue he used. There are kept in boxes.

 

A recent set of brick paper, printed with Canon ink jet original inks was accidentally left in shaded sunlight and faded after 48 hours. Other sheets that have been treated with AV protection have lasted well.

[Darius43]

16 minutes ago, cessna152towser said:

I salvaged this little building from a club layout which I helped to dismantle back in 1969.   It has been on my current layout since I constructed the layout in 1989.   There are some plastic bits, windows, doors, gutters etc, but the basic structure appears to be a very thin balsa wood rather than card.

I like that - quirky and charming.  Also seems to have survived a recent volcanic eruption judging by the ash deposits all around…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[MartinRS]

I did see a 2001 claim on a printing forum that a HP printed laser colour print left in strong sunlight for over a year showed no discernible changes when compared to a print kept away from sunlight. An (unspecified) Epson printed image faded to almost a pale white paper after a month of exposure. In another example a laser printed colour image left outdoors looked much the same after six months exposure to the weather.

 

The place to go for information on print longevity is http://www.wilhelm-research.com/, so I have read.

 

Has anyone made a recent comparison between self printed ink jet brick paper and self printed laser printed sheets? I suspect the solution to fading prints is to use a laser printer rather than an ink jet printer. If you need any brick paper to use in any tests you can find some at my (presently dormant, due to family commitments) site https://paperbrick.tumblr.com/
 

Edited June 11, 2023 by MartinRS
Insert URL

[RANGERS]

1 hour ago, cessna152towser said:

I salvaged this little building from a club layout which I helped to dismantle back in 1969.   It has been on my current layout since I constructed the layout in 1989.   There are some plastic bits, windows, doors, gutters etc, but the basic structure appears to be a very thin balsa wood rather than card.

Models like this have a distinct character all of their own, reminiscent of the buildings on historic layouts such as Madder Valley.

[brossard]

1 hour ago, MartinRS said:

I did see a 2001 claim on a printing forum that a HP printed laser colour print left in strong sunlight for over a year showed no discernible changes when compared to a print kept away from sunlight. An (unspecified) Epson printed image faded to almost a pale white paper after a month of exposure. In another example a laser printed colour image left outdoors looked much the same after six months exposure to the weather.

 

The place to go for information on print longevity is http://www.wilhelm-research.com/, so I have read.

 

Has anyone made a recent comparison between self printed ink jet brick paper and self printed laser printed sheets? I suspect the solution to fading prints is to use a laser printer rather than an ink jet printer. If you need any brick paper to use in any tests you can find some at my (presently dormant, due to family commitments) site https://paperbrick.tumblr.com/
 

 

I tend to agree about the type of ink being used.  For the buildings mentioned in my post above, I probably used a cheap Samsung laser printer.

 

After that machine gave up the ghost, I acquired an HP Office Jet that uses oil based ink.  Ink cartridge price makes me wince but I get every last drop out of them and they last quite a long time.  My buildings on Balmoral Road are done with this printer.  They're not that old (a couple of years in some cases) so too soon to tell if they will last.

 

John

[john new]

1 hour ago, MartinRS said:

I did see a 2001 claim on a printing forum that a HP printed laser colour print left in strong sunlight for over a year showed no discernible changes when compared to a print kept away from sunlight. An (unspecified) Epson printed image faded to almost a pale white paper after a month of exposure. In another example a laser printed colour image left outdoors looked much the same after six months exposure to the weather.

 

The place to go for information on print longevity is http://www.wilhelm-research.com/, so I have read.

 

Has anyone made a recent comparison between self printed ink jet brick paper and self printed laser printed sheets? I suspect the solution to fading prints is to use a laser printer rather than an ink jet printer. If you need any brick paper to use in any tests you can find some at my (presently dormant, due to family commitments) site https://paperbrick.tumblr.com/
 

A minor issue with laser printers, at least if my HP is typical, is a slightly gloss look to the print. A spray over with matt varnish would both add an extra sealant and dull that off.

[VIA185]

From memory, Madder Valley is kept in a fairly low-light environment. It's looked after by museum people who know what they are doing. It's also so old that it's likely the card buildings were 'pickled' in shellac, which will keep any moisture out - if any was present. I doubt that many of us can treat our models in the same way or keep them in a similar environment. My O gauge 'Railway Children' layout lives in a shed. Initially it wasn't insulated and although the buildings are removable, I left them in place over a winter and had to re-roof the station and goods shed because they warped. The shed is now insulated but I bring the buildings indoors and keep them in a centrally-heated house during winter. On my 'OO' layout which has two skylights above it, I have had some fading of buildings, particularly those with home-printed (inkjet) building papers. I have also had the windows of my Bachmann Blue Pullman turn white due to exposure to too much strong sunlight. We learn by our mistakes. (CJL)

Edited June 11, 2023 by VIA185

[AndrueC]

At my club we have a layout that is nearly 20 years old. The card models look a bit 'dusty' but otherwise they are fine. We intend exhibiting the layout this year with only a superficial sprucing up.

[Colin_McLeod]

8 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I should have mentioned this fine piece of model-making when I was banging on about the virtues of painted wood.

 

It was made c1975-1981BC.

 

 

It also includes linen, plaster, and copper wire apparently. Possibly not cardboard though.

 

 

 

That's a really beautiful model.

What size would it be?

[BR60103]

I have a Superquick engine shed which I assembled as a teenager in the 60s. It has spent this time in various basements.

I recently had to redo some of the glue joints; I suspect that I used plastic glue rather than wood glue.  I take it to shows as an example or durability.

 

[AyJay]

All good and interesting thoughts, thank you.

 

The oldest kit that I have, a school building, don’t know the make, is about 30 years old and has suffered some abuse yet remains solid; whereas a Scalescene house has started to curl.  I think the secret is to reinforce the shape wherever possible. Wintering in the house has been vetoed, but then the intended room is next to the bathroom and the ‘person in charge’ does not believe in using the extractor fan; so I guess they are better off staying where they are.

 

I am planning on replacing my Metcalfe station with a scratch build. I might try brushing both surfaces of the card with dilute pva before starting to cut (try a test piece first though). Reckon 30 years life might see me out.

[MyRule1]

I have just written a procedure regarding archives preservation for a museum I am involved with I am surprised that any card models survive, and the procedure does not include such items as cats sitting on buildings.

 

The worst issues are light, humidity and temperature. With recommended humidity being 45% - 55% and temperature between 16 and 21 degrees C. After writing that I am buying a temperature and humidity monitor for my new model room. Basic models are fairly inexpensive.