IEP through Scunthorpe? Yes it did run!

[JeffP]

I'm sure I've seen mention of driver training with IEP's between Cleethorpes and Lincoln, with a view to re-introducing the direct Cleethorpes to Kings Cross services.

The train comes off Doncaster IRP depot and passes Scunthorpe around 0840.

I can't find the post now, can anyone confirm?

Thanks

Edited June 26, 2023 by JeffP

[Guest]

Doesn’t show on Realtime trains and I don’t recall LNER announcing it. It might have been a one off to prove the concept, but I don’t think they’d start driver training until they’d secured the rights and timetable slot. I’m not sure there’s any capacity in the fleet while they get the cracking sorted out. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Guest

[Mark Saunders]

Wasn't the original plan for the use of the five car sets to come from places and combine somewhere and only use one Kings Cross path south of Peterborough?

 

Such as a Middlesbrough and Harrogate combining at York.

[Wheatley]

Either at the "MPs talking to LNER"  stage or the "Doing some tests later this month" stage, according to which local rag you read (once you get past the blizzard of popups and the usual godawful standard of local reporting):

 

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2023/02/lner-testing-possibility-of-direct-cleethorpes-to-london-train-route/

 

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/fresh-hope-40-year-saga-8518547?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

 

Personally I think it will be at the "Local politicians pipe dreaming and making election pledges they can't keep" stage for a while yet. I'm still waiting for the MML electrification and the fleet of APTs to run on it that Sheffield's MP was promising in the 1980s.  

[Guest]

I’m guessing it’s quite easy for LNER to send an Azuma somewhere to keep local politicians happy! They know that the hard bit is getting DfT to agree to spending money let alone getting timetable paths. 

 

That said, SENRUG in Northumberland got a political head of steam going by running trains to Ashington with the result that the line reopens to passengers in the next 12 months or so. It can happen.

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Either at the "MPs talking to LNER"  stage or the "Doing some tests later this month" stage, according to which local rag you read (once you get past the blizzard of popups and the usual godawful standard of local reporting):

 

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2023/02/lner-testing-possibility-of-direct-cleethorpes-to-london-train-route/

 

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/fresh-hope-40-year-saga-8518547?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

 

Personally I think it will be at the "Local politicians pipe dreaming and making election pledges they can't keep" stage for a while yet. I'm still waiting for the MML electrification and the fleet o 

Agreed but a local MP has zilch influence unless they are 'in the Elite Club' and that's even when they are in the correct 'Team'! 

In Opposition they have zero influence as they are always doomed and not even in the correct 'Team', let alone any 'Club'! That's how it doesn't work here. Sad.

P

P

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

Wasn't the original plan for the use of the five car sets to come from places and combine somewhere and only use one Kings Cross path south of Peterborough?

 

Such as a Middlesbrough and Harrogate combining at York.

That was the original plan when the procurement programme was laid out.

The Virgin East Coast winning bid, included matching proposals to introduce new services from destinations that had lost their direct links to London, by combining 5 car trains, for the run down to KGX.

 

 

.

[Guest]

I think another problem is that the 5-car sets are often needed for weekend (and now weekday) engineering work requiring diversion away from the wires. Cancelling services regularly to provide rolling stock for diversions via Lincoln, Carlisle or Durham Coast means that these provincial services will get a raw deal. It’s even more acute now with sets out of service to have the cracking rectified. LNER were planning to buy new stock to replace the remaining 225s and allow them to run the intended timetable but these seem to be on ice while DfT count the pennies. 

[4630]

On 18/06/2023 at 09:00, JeffP said:

I'm sure I've seen mention of driver training with IEP's between Cleethorpes and Lincoln, with a view to re-introducing the direct Cleethorpes to Kings Cross services.

The train comes off Doncaster IRP depot and passes Scunthorpe around 0840.

I can't find the post now, can anyone confirm?

Thanks

 

There are paths in the system for 26th June 2023, Monday Only, for 5Z80, 5Z81, 5Z82 and 5Z83, Doncaster Carr IEP Depot-Cleethorpes-Lincoln Central-Cleethorpes- Doncaster Carr IEP Depot, which is possibly what you're referring to.

 

5Z80 Doncaster Carr Iep Depot to Cleethorpes

 

5Z81 Cleethorpes to Lincoln Central

 

5Z82 Lincoln Central to Cleethorpes

 

5Z83 Cleethorpes to Doncaster Carr Iep Depot

 

I hope that helps.

 

No guarantee that they will run, of course, so given in good faith.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MarshLane]

On 18/06/2023 at 14:12, Gatesheadgeek said:

LNER were planning to buy new stock to replace the remaining 225s and allow them to run the intended timetable but these seem to be on ice while DfT count the pennies. 

 

I am hearing that behind the scenes, the contract is on the verge of being awarded ... and it's not going where one would expect it to go, given the current unified fleet.  Still its all a game of pennies, dragons, Government and private sector isn't it 🫢

 

19 hours ago, 4630 said:

There are paths in the system for 26th June 2023, Monday Only, for 5Z80, 5Z81, 5Z82 and 5Z83, Doncaster Carr IEP Depot-Cleethorpes-Lincoln Central-Cleethorpes- Doncaster Carr IEP Depot, which is possibly what you're referring to.

 

I gather the 26th June paths are timing runs to prove the sectional running times.

 

Rich

Edited June 20, 2023 by MarshLane
Sorry, spelling!

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

 

I am hearing that behind the scenes, the contract is on the verge of being awarded ... and it's not going where one would expect it to go, given the current unified fleet.  Still its all a game of pennies, dragons, Government and private sector isn't it 🫢

 

 

I gather the 26th June paths are timing runs to provide the sectional running times.

 

Rich

Given the cracking problems with the IEPs, going somewhere else for them wouldn’t surprise me at all. Possibly Hitachi assumed it was in the bag…

[JeffP]

 

"I gather the 26th June paths are timing runs to provide the sectional running times"

 

Ah. So does  that mean that a train could run, or that they've just worked out timings?

[MarshLane]

2 hours ago, JeffP said:

 

"I gather the 26th June paths are timing runs to provide the sectional running times"

 

Ah. So does  that mean that a train could run, or that they've just worked out timings?

 

Should run from what I am being told, subject to drivers and unit being available. One of those, ... it works on paper, but until we get a train on the ground and prove everything its all theoretical ... situations!

[MarshLane]

2 hours ago, JeffP said:

 

"I gather the 26th June paths are timing runs to provide the sectional running times"

 

Ah. So does  that mean that a train could run, or that they've just worked out timings?

I should have added....

 

In essence if STP paths appear in the railway computer systems they have been requested for an operational reason so *should* run. Where freights are concerned of course, changes in requirements, customer needs, inbound services, loco/staff availability can all affect things.  But in this case, either LNER will have arranged for a specific driver who signs to Cleethorpes (assuming there are any, if somebody had transferred from say TPE) to be rostered, or they will have arranged an LNER driver who doesn't sign the route but signs the traction, to be accompanied by one or more drivers from another TOC/FOC.  It is feasible of course that one or two LNER drivers (or driver managers) could have been route learning with TPE/EMR over the Doncaster-Cleethorpes and Grimsby-Lincoln routes in recent weeks.  So a lot of variables in the picture.  

 

But the essence is that a lot of work will have been put in place before the path was requested, so in this case it should run.  Whether it runs to time or not is another matter!

[JeffP]

 

Well here's a first, 800207 becomes the first ever IEP through Scunthorpe.

Running approx ten minutes late.

[Mallard60022]

Makes sense to (say) run 02 Sets to Donny or Lincoln/Newark and possibly join up?  Gives some passengers a direct link to south of Newark. Even a Lincoln to Peterborough and onwards?

If you look at the Summer TT on the GW, their use of both types of Units on connecting services heading for Devon and Cornwall, is fantastic.

Would be fun if Hull Trains could expand and run one more of their services from Cleethorpes and link at Donny or LIncoln/Grantham? They would need another batch of 802s though and the paths of course. Their service is now reliable and inexpensive for many journeys.

Imaginative and cooperative Ops required?

P

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Makes sense to (say) run 02 Sets to Donny or Lincoln/Newark

 

A couple to Immingham Docks for the continent, and of course one to Cleethorpes for the incontinent.

 

Mike.

[MarshLane]

9 hours ago, JeffP said:

Well here's a first, 800207 becomes the first ever IEP through Scunthorpe.

Running approx ten minutes late.

 

Going back to our previous messages, the train was operated by Rail Operations Group on behalf of LNER - ie it was ROG Drivers.

 

[DOCJACOB]

Further on down the line, never seen so many orange hi-vis from different operators 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

Next Year's Summer Timetable should see the Cleethorpes to Kings Cross direct service introduced. Via Lincoln and ... not specified yet. Could be Salding/Peterboro' or Newark/Peterboro'. 

Article in Lincolnshire Press.

Phil

[JeffP]

As far as I know the current KX-Lincolns branch off at Newark.

Last June my wife was at Newark showground for a flower arranging demo day, so I spent the time on Newark station.

No freight at all, but quite a few services went off on, or came from the Lincoln line.

[Mallard60022]

4 hours ago, JeffP said:

As far as I know the current KX-Lincolns branch off at Newark.

Last June my wife was at Newark showground for a flower arranging demo day, so I spent the time on Newark station.

No freight at all, but quite a few services went off on, or came from the Lincoln line.

It will be interesting to see if this new services is a 5 Car that links up at Peterboro' or Newark. I suspect Newark.

I suppose it might be a 9 Car all the way, but that will depend on loading I suppose and maybe times of day?

Hull Trains are now Running 2 X 5 Cars on at least one service at Weekends, such is the demand.

P

[Guest]

An article on LNER in this month’s Modern Railways magazine explains that the extension of a Lincoln service to Cleethorpes (one service out and back/day) is contingent on the upcoming complete recast of the ECML timetable and DfT agreement to the business case for additional services.
 

The new ECML timetable increases LNER paths to 6 per hour I understand but again needs funding that wasn’t allocated in the government’s last Spending Review. 

[Hesperus]

On 29/06/2023 at 21:49, Mallard60022 said:

It will be interesting to see if this new services is a 5 Car that links up at Peterboro' or Newark. I suspect Newark.

I suppose it might be a 9 Car all the way, but that will depend on loading I suppose and maybe times of day?

Hull Trains are now Running 2 X 5 Cars on at least one service at Weekends, such is the demand.

P

 

I thought the 9 cars were more or less electric only with a single diesel engine to get them out the way if the wires are down.

[Mallard60022]

35 minutes ago, Hesperus said:

 

I thought the 9 cars were more or less electric only with a single diesel engine to get them out the way if the wires are down.

Well I thought that as I live on the ECML, but GWR have 9 Sets that run west a bit on Electric and then all the rest of the way on their enhanced Diesels.

I looked up the types on Wiki recently but have already forgotten the Class differences! Here we go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800#:~:text=The British Rail Class 800 Intercity Express Train,to enable trains to operate on unelectrified track.

P