Collett Coaches

[Departmental]

Can any one tell me if any manufacturer (model or kit) has produced a Collett BSK (Corridor Brake Second) coach?

[woodenhead]

You should add your scale to that

[Departmental]

Sorry, im working in 4mm

[woodenhead]

Bachmann had one in the past 34-175 Maroon, 34-176 GWR.

[Metr0Land]

Orignally produced by Mainline (and also went through a period of being produced by Replica?)

[rovex]

Presumably built as a BTK, brake third corridor 

[County of Yorkshire]

You can pick up any of the following:

 

RTR:

D95 brake third (left and right handed) - Hornby

 

Please note that the Mainline/Bachmann Collett coaches were only ever released in corridor third (C77) and brake composite (E159) variants. 

 

Kits:

D94 brake third (left and right handed) - Worsley Works

D95 (left and right handed) - Comet (now sold by Wizard Models) 

D120 (Centenary Stock) - Comet 

D121 - Comet 

D124 - Comet 

D127 - Comet 

Personally I’m expecting one of Bachmann/Rapido/Accurascale to announce a range of Collett Sunshine coaches in the near future, which then might see a D121/124/127 released as part of the range. Late-period Collett coaches are a massive gap in RTR in my opinion. 

[teeinox]

The OP’s question is about the availability of BSKs.  In R-T-R the pickings are thin.  Faced with the same problem of finding a BSK to run with my Collett “Sunshine” coaches, I eventually bought a matching “Sunshine” BCK to go with them.  These are elderly mouldings and this is my experience of updating them.

 

I have 3 such coaches, one each of the Mainline, Replica Railways and Bachmann C77 (Second/Third corridor) productions, and one Replica Railways E159 brake composite.

 

The maroon Mainline C77, despite having the correct height corridor windows, is probably the least satisfactory having noticeable body-bowing, lining under the windows which is bowed too, and a light shade of maroon you may not care for.  The Replica and Bachmann versions have lowered, and so incorrect, windows on the corridor side, but far less bowing and better decoration.  My E159 Brake Composite is the Replica Railways version in crimson and cream and here it is:

 

 

 

It even comes with an end board for you to fit if you wish.  The corridor windows are the correct height, and the body is straight.  The livery is so good that I bought a spare C77 crimson and cream body from Replica Railways for £2 and replaced the maroon Mainline one with it.

 

All chassis, bodies and interiors are interchangeable within each diagram, as are the push-fit bogies of the Mainline and Replica versions.   The Bachmann bogie is its standard screw fitting which give a far better ride without body rock; the Mainline and Replica versions need stabilising.  Mainline and Replica ones originally came with plastic wheels which need changing.  Hornby replacements always fit; Bachmann ones can be a bit tight.

 

Bachmann has the best packaging.  The inner sleeves of the Mainline and Replica Railways boxes need trimming to fit properly.  Some Replica Railways examples are marked “Seconds”.  They are not as far as I can see.

 

On buying second-hand, I have had no problems.  They are robust coaches.  The only points to watch are that all the roof ventilators are present and correct, and as far as Bachmann is concerned, they sold the BCK as a BSK and the C77 as a composite.  Avoid those.

 

I run mine with Hornby Hawksworth stock and have converted them to use Hornby close couplers.  Three have cams for kinematic coupling; the BCK does not (I ran out of cams!).  They are fine coaches and look the part with the Hawksworth coaches, though they need a tiny adjustment to raise the height.  The interiors need painting, too, but they are easy to disassemble if care is taken.

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by teeinox

[Steamport Southport]

If RTR then stick with the newer Hornby versions. Fantastic models. Worth bearing in mind the Mainline/Dapol/etc. models are over forty years old!

 

Kits?

 

Have a look here. Obviously many are long gone out of production. They often come up on second hand stores and eBay though.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits4coacha.html

 

Wizard list here. Scroll down to W for the GWR stuff.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/cat_carriagekits/

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

Shouldn't have any problems sourcing Wizard stuff.  The Mainline/Replica/Bachmann 'sunshine' coaches are a full third and a brake composite, there is no brake third (or brake second, BSK in BR parlance) whatever Bachmann try to tell you.

 

57' Bowenders of very good quality are available from Hornby, but make sure you are buying the current production, not the earlier version now in the Railroad range, and avoid the earliest Triang Hornby itereation; it has incorrect B1 BR bogies and sits about 2mm too high off the railhead, not to mention that the paint job is pretty dire!  Hornby's current 57' Colletts are the best GW coaches on the market (until the Rapido B set and and Dapol Mainline & City/Diagram N autotrailere arrive) and represnt superb value for money!

 

The Centenaries are originally Airfix, but have been through several other producers.  There were two types of Centenary Brake 3rd (Brake 2nd post 1953 BR), but Airfix and their successors have only produced the two-compartment type  The models have appeared in BR crimson and cream and lined maroon liveries, which are incorrect as these coaches were refurbished after WW2 to have the more modern type of windows with sliding 4-panel ventilators, replacing the plain droplight 'Beclawat' type of the original design.  I believe all types of Centenaries are available from Wizard as kits, with the sliding ventilator type windows, as are a good range of other GW types.

 

Sadly, Hornby current tooling 57' Colletts and 64' Hawkworths apart, GW/WR modellers are poorly served in terms of coaches, with the ex-Mainline Sunshines and ex-Airfix Centenaries being reasonably to scale but, typically of they era they were originally tooled during, have a lot of poor moulded detail such as handrails, door handles, grab rails and such, poorly presented plastic buffers, and are a little crude and lacking beneath the solebars, with much underframe detail either badly moulded or missing altogether.  Bogies are basic and brake blocks moulded out of alignment with the wheels are common (to be fair, it is the 00 wheels that are out of alignment with the brake blocks, but the appearance is jarring, with the brake blocks clawing uselessly at fresh air.  Chassis truss girders & posts are overscale and 'blocky'.

 

One can achieve better results and a much wider variety of stock with Wizard kits, but not all is good news here, either, sadly.  The bogie cosmetic sideframes are very crude and 'blobby' cast whitemetal, needing a lot of cleaning up and even then not always being satisfactory; I replaced those supplied with my Collett flatended non-gangwayed coaches with RTR types from old Mainline Sunshines, as the supplied bogies were so much wider than the coach that they could be seen protruding from a directly overhead view!  The etched brass chassis components are far too flimsy, and rely on whatever structural rigidity can be obtained from the 'box' formed by the coach body for their strength, and the truss girders are very thin and one-dimensional.

 

We do the best we can...

 

3 hours ago, teeinox said:

The maroon Mainline C77, despite having the correct height corridor windows, is probably the least satisfactory having noticeable body-bowing

 

This looks wrong but is actually correct, albeit perhaps counter-intuitive; the coaches were designed with a slight upwards bowing to avoid deformation downwards when they were fully loaded with passengers, and to provide a measure of extra springing. 

[St Enodoc]

12 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Bachmann had one in the past 34-175 Maroon, 34-176 GWR.

 

10 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

Orignally produced by Mainline (and also went through a period of being produced by Replica?)

 

9 hours ago, rovex said:

Presumably built as a BTK, brake third corridor 

As @County of Yorkshire has said, the Mainline/Replica/Bachmann model is a brake composite not a brake second.

[The Johnster]

Another issue with RTR coaches tooled 40-odd years ago is the failure to manage flush or correct depth (in from the body side, that is) windows, and the prismatic effect of the glazing.  
 

New toolings would be most welcome, but are unlikely from companies which are still selling these long-redacted models in healthy and profitable quantities.  Of course, we all know that new versions would fly off the shelves, but with full overheads the profit margins may not be as attractive to the producing companies as knocking out another batch of the old stagers!

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Another issue with RTR coaches tooled 40-odd years ago is the failure to manage flush or correct depth (in from the body side, that is) windows, and the prismatic effect of the glazing.  
 

New toolings would be most welcome, but are unlikely from companies which are still selling these long-redacted models in healthy and profitable quantities.  Of course, we all know that new versions would fly off the shelves, but with full overheads the profit margins may not be as attractive to the producing companies as knocking out another batch of the old stagers!

 

I don't think they've been in the Bachmann catalogue for about five to ten years. I think they did some for a train set but that's it.

 

I have a feeling they are probably planning on replacing them with "something" as they've done the Thompsons, Portholes and Bulleids over the last few years, as well as the SECR Birdcage stock.

 

However Bachmann don't announce in advance anymore so if there are some coming they'll just appear!

 

 

Jason

[John Tomlinson]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Another issue with RTR coaches tooled 40-odd years ago is the failure to manage flush or correct depth (in from the body side, that is) windows, and the prismatic effect of the glazing.  
 

New toolings would be most welcome, but are unlikely from companies which are still selling these long-redacted models in healthy and profitable quantities.  Of course, we all know that new versions would fly off the shelves, but with full overheads the profit margins may not be as attractive to the producing companies as knocking out another batch of the old stagers!

 

This is quite correct. However there are Southeast Finecast flushglazing sets which, whilst not perfect, do mitigate the impact of the windows being inset to some degree.

 

John.

[The Johnster]

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't think they've been in the Bachmann catalogue for about five to ten years. I think they did some for a train set but that's it.

 

I have a feeling they are probably planning on replacing them with "something" as they've done the Thompsons, Portholes and Bulleids over the last few years, as well as the SECR Birdcage stock.

 

However Bachmann don't announce in advance anymore so if there are some coming they'll just appear!

 

 

Jason

 

Indeed.  Hornby blindsided me (in the nicest sense of that term) with the 57' Collett suburbans, not 100% right for a South Wales layout but close enough for Jazz, and a quality act to boot!  Similar surprises from Baccy would be more than acceptable!  

 

But I'm not holding my breath; I'm hoping to be proved wrong but I think blue box are something of a spent force for new steam-era models, and the lovely 94xx, along with the retooled J72, was their last gasp.  There hasn't even been a new steam-era wagon for a while, plenty of reliviries and new numbers, but no actual toolings.  They're still knocking out the old Mainline GW toad with moulded handrails, which is looking very retro nowadays!  They've noticeably stayed out of the industrial game under their own name as well.

 

Hornby's current toolings are very good offerings, and are sensible choices as well as the 57' Colletts and 64' Hawksworths were very common in the popular steam modelling periods.  But coaches are not well represented by the RTR trade as a whole; hardly surprising when you begin to realise the enormous variety of styles and designs out there, but it must be frustrating for example to GCR or GER modellers that very little stock suitable for their routes is available and both Gresley and Thompson 64footers, only really suitable for the ECML, are and have been for a while.  You can buy an LNER liveried 'Director' or B12, but there's nowt for them to pull!  And there are no decent quality GW catering vehicles, most of which were refurbished by Hawksworth to have sliding ventilator windows in post-war and BR liveries.  There's a Railroad 57' Restaurant Car, but that's it!

 

Gangwayed Churchward toplights have been consistent wishlist poll scorers, but there are also a massive variety of Collett designs not even available as kits, and no 70' RTR offerings.  Hornby are still flogging the A30 Collett hopper-vent autotrailer originally produced by Airfix in, 1978?  It was a groundbreaker then, which shows how far we've come!  The gangwayed clerestories were a near miss, with the panelling left off and painted on.  LMS coaches were Periods I, II, and III; matters were much less simple on God's Wonderful, especially under Collett!

 

Dapol are showing the way with their Mainline & City toplights and Diagram N autotrailer, as are Rapido with their upcoming B set, a quantum advance on the old Airfix.  More of this sort of thing, please; flatended B sets, BR 'Cyclops' auto trailers that can be produced as normal all=thirds and brake thirds, Collett full brakes, South Wales non-gangwayed compartment coaches, especially scale length clerestories...

[Departmental]

Thanks for the details of past production efforts guys. I was looking to produce a Tunnel Inspection coach which several Collet BSKs were converted into in the late 1950s

[BernardTPM]

I assume this type. Hornby have done those in recent years to a very high standard, though you'll be stripping a lot of that off. The more basic Railroad model is not the correct 'hand'.