Bachmann 9F 2023 New tooling - what's it like?!

[Tramshed]

2 hours ago, Karl said:

A possible difference is the tender. I don't know what 92134 ran with in service but it didn't have a tender when it entered preservation. I think the one it is running with is on hire from a standard 5 owning group.

92134 is listed as being paired with a BR1C in 1959 when 9Fs were still being delivered.

[MidlandRed]

On 27/12/2023 at 12:30, PMP said:

It depends on how you’re defining a ‘BR blue’ layout. If your definition of BR Blue is after 11/08/68 then neither are.

Steam on BR finished in 1968 when the core rolling stock and infrastructure was still firmly rooted in BR Green era. As above realistically neither are more suited, though they would have seen some limited pre-TOPS blue D&E locomotives and blue/grey type coaching stock. Both models have late crests which was the last BR steam livery.

BR blue was well represented by the end of 1967/early 1968, dependent on where you would be looking. Basically the WCML had all of its electrics in one of two types of rail blue or the remaining members of class 81/2/5 in electric blue (classes 83/4 were stored by then). All class 50 in the north west in rail blue - and apart from late deliveries D1953-61 the majority of 47s remained in green. Similarly class 25 - apart from late deliveries D7660-77, 20 apart from the late deliveries in the D818x-99 and 8300-27) most were in green or two tone  green (25/47 and very small numbers of 24/27 for the latter). Almost all coaches on WCML were in blue and grey, and many DMUs were in various versions of rail blue. Passenger stock in the late steam era in the north west was a mixture of blue/grey and maroon, possibly more of the latter and some steam hauled. ECML was fairly similar, with some (most?) Deltics in rail blue - again more class 30/1, 40/46/47 in green than rail blue. 
 

Plenty of chance to run a north west based 9F in combination with varying levels of transition liveried diesel and electric locos and coaching stock. You can even find photos of steam pulling early examples of merry go round coal wagons. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by MidlandRed

[cctransuk]

24 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

BR blue was well represented by the end of 1967/early 1968, dependent on where you would be looking. Basically the WCML had all of its electrics in one of two types of rail blue or the remaining members of class 81/2/5 in electric blue (classes 83/4 were stored by then).

 

Please could you elaborate on two shades of Rail Blue? I recall, from personal observation, a single shade.

 

Finish could be matt (sprayed) or satin / gloss (brushed) - but the basic colour did not vary, in my experience.

 

CJI.

[SulzerPeak]

The early electrics 81-86 were a darker shade of blue

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, SulzerPeak said:

The early electrics 81-86 were a darker shade of blue

 

Are you saying that the early AC electris carried three shades of blue - Electric Blue, Rail Blue (shade 1), and the Rail Blue (shade 2)?

 

If so, that does not accord with my lineside observations at the time.

 

CJI.

[MidlandRed]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Please could you elaborate on two shades of Rail Blue? I recall, from personal observation, a single shade.

 

Finish could be matt (sprayed) or satin / gloss (brushed) - but the basic colour did not vary, in my experience.

 

CJI.

To clarify, absolutely not!! But the AL6 were new in rail blue, with syp, and window surrounds/cab roofs in white - one or two earlier locos got repainted in this style as well (eg E3028, E3036). The first few of each batch of AL6 (Vulcan and BR Doncaster) had red buffer beams, the remainder had rail blue. 
 

The final rail blue style was fye (cab window surrounds in yellow), cab roofs rail blue.

 

All of class AL1-5 were built in electric blue, with white cab roofs, white cab window surrounds and white roof - gaining syp gradually after 1962 - some gained fye in that livery but the repaint style was (with the exception of one or two locos (as stated above) as per the repainted AL6s. 
 

Note the first few AL6s appeared without syp but soon gained them.

 

You are right that the earliest recipients of rail blue (and especially carriages, either hauled or DMU or EMU, appeared in a semi matt finish (referred to as ‘eggshell’, as per contemporary proprietary paints for interior walls) - those sets with unpainted aluminium window surrounds in this livery (AM10; 4REP; 4TC) looked ok with that relief - those that didn’t looked pretty dreadful!! 
 

2 hours ago, SulzerPeak said:

The early electrics 81-86 were a darker shade of blue

AL6s were built in rail blue - the earlier classes in electric blue - a completely different shade of blue. 

[cctransuk]

9 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

To clarify, absolutely not!! But the AL6 were new in rail blue, with syp, and window surrounds/cab roofs in white - one or two earlier locos got repainted in this style as well (eg E3028, E3036). The first few of each batch of AL6 (Vulcan and BR Doncaster) had red buffer beams, the remainder had rail blue. 
 

The final rail blue style was fye (cab window surrounds in yellow), cab roofs rail blue.

 

All of class AL1-5 were built in electric blue, with white cab roofs, white cab window surrounds and white roof - gaining syp gradually after 1962 - some gained fye in that livery but the repaint style was (with the exception of one or two locos (as stated above) as per the repainted AL6s. 
 

Note the first few AL6s appeared without syp but soon gained them.

 

You are right that the earliest recipients of rail blue (and especially carriages, either hauled or DMU or EMU, appeared in a semi matt finish (referred to as ‘eggshell’, as per contemporary proprietary paints for interior walls) - those sets with unpainted aluminium window surrounds in this livery (AM10; 4REP; 4TC) looked ok with that relief - those that didn’t looked pretty dreadful!! 
 

AL6s were built in rail blue - the earlier classes in electric blue - a completely different shade of blue. 

 

Absolutely - but I would be interested to learn what SulzerPeak was implying.

 

CJI.

[APT Fan]

This is from 1969

 

 

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=3&id=18444&gallery=Railways&page=22

 

As mentioned in this thread, the article below also discusses the adoption of BR Blue from the mid 60's. I didn't realise.

 

https://railrevisited.blogspot.com/2019/10/history-life-times-of-rail-blue.html

[simes]

Back to the question of what's suited to a 'BR Blue' layout, if 'BR Blue' is taken to mean the presence of blue/grey Mk 1 coaches, those were certainly around in quantity by 1967/68 and there are photos and videos around of blue/grey coaches being hauled by steam. This only happened in the last year or two of steam so it's restricted to those steam loco classes which survived to the end; principally Black 5, standard 5s, 8Fs (on ECS) or 9Fs (occasional summer turns).

[APT Fan]

An interesting thread providing more options for those of us with more modern rolling stock.

 

 

[Monkey28]

I'm having trouble with my 92134 it's the second one I've had and like the first, it's not running smoothly. going to give it the weekend running in and see if it improves 

 

Does anyone have any tips 

 

It's like it is tight and sort of stops and starts when running 

 

 

[APT Fan]

5 hours ago, Monkey28 said:

I'm having trouble with my 92134 it's the second one I've had and like the first, it's not running smoothly. going to give it the weekend running in and see if it improves 

 

Does anyone have any tips 

 

It's like it is tight and sort of stops and starts when running 

 

 

 

I received mine on Monday, first time I've ever bought a steam loco and I didn't really know what to expect. I read the Bachmann 'running - in' instructions and it says run at half speed for half an hour in each direction whilst pulling a load. So I put it on track cleaning detail and had it pulling my track cleaning wagon which provides quite a bit of drag. It was shocking and would only travel a maximum of about a metre before causing a short with the Z21 showing a big red flashing light, as you say looked like it was tight and I thought mine was very jerky (if that's a word). I had to keep taking the loco off the track and reset the controller, I worked out that the problem seemed to be caused by the driving wheels rather than the tender or the front wheels.

 

On flipping it over and inspecting it, the forward facing sand pipes didn't look quite right in that they seemed to be sitting very low and not quite square. I touched the part and it jumped out of its mount so I removed it. The two forward facing sand pipes have been moulded from a single piece of plastic which clips into a couple of mounts on the underside of the loco. Removing the piece solved all of my problems, its had a really good run in without skipping a beat. My perception is that its 'loosened up' now and I've had it flat out pulling 11 coaches. I think those sand pipes are going to cause more problems than they are worth and having them fitted isn't something I'm that fussed about personally. I'd obviously seen pictures of the loco before and kind of expected it to look very 'functional' but its actually very elegant when you see it in the flesh and I can't stop running it now, I'm enjoying the sound and the playable horn is great fun!

 

  

Track Cleaning and run-in

 

Flat out hauling 11 coaches

Edited January 5 by APT Fan

[MikeParkin65]

41 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

 

I received mine on Monday, first time I've ever bought a steam loco and I didn't really know what to expect. I read the Bachmann 'running - in' instructions and it says run at half speed for half an hour in each direction whilst pulling a load. So I put it on track cleaning detail and had it pulling my track cleaning wagon which provides quite a bit of drag. It was shocking and would only travel a maximum of about a metre before causing a short with the Z21 showing a big red flashing light, as you say looked like it was tight and I thought mine was very jerky (if that's a word). I had to keep taking the loco off the track and reset the controller, I worked out that the problem seemed to be caused by the driving wheels rather than the tender or the front wheels.

 

On flipping it over and inspecting it, the forward facing sand pipes didn't look quite right in that they seemed to be sitting very low and not quite square. I touched the part and it jumped out of its mount so I removed it. The two forward facing sand pipes have been moulded from a single piece of plastic which clips into a couple of mounts on the underside of the loco. Removing the piece solved all of my problems, its had a really good run in without skipping a beat. My perception is that its 'loosened up' now and I've had it flat out pulling 11 coaches. I think those sand pipes are going to cause more problems than they are worth and having them fitted isn't something I'm that fussed about personally. I'd obviously seen pictures of the loco before and kind of expected it to look very 'functional' but its actually very elegant when you see it in the flesh and I can't stop running it now, I'm enjoying the sound and the playable horn is great fun!

 

  

Track Cleaning and run-in

 

Flat out hauling 11 coaches

For the sake of clarity the Bachmann running in instructions say 30 mins without a load. My preference is an hour in each direction followed by gradually building up the trailing load.  The idea is to highlight any significant problems and then assuming it’s a keeper let the motor and bearings ‘bed in’ without any undue strain. Doubt you’ll cause any long term damage by not running in but it is ’best practice’ and means if problems do arise (unlikely) you did everything properly. 

[Monkey28]

thanks mikeparkin65 and APT fan. It's best not to mention the APT that's not good for my blood pressure :-)

 

It didn't seem to be getting any better with running, so I decided to carefully remove the base plate on the locomotive to check the axles.

 

I cleaned them with a cotton bud and Isopropyl alcohol removing a bit of black oil-type stuff and then lubricated sparingly with a gaugemaster oil pan I also did the connecting rods and motion at the same time and replaced the base plate making sure everything was aligned properly.

 

The loco is now running a lot better but not perfect. I'm going to give it a run-in over the weekend and see how it goes. Hopefully, it will get smoother.

 

I have to say this is one of the worst steam locos for running out of the box. I've had

 

 

[APT Fan]

13 minutes ago, Monkey28 said:

thanks mikeparkin65 and APT fan. It's best not to mention the APT that's not good for my blood pressure :-)

 

It didn't seem to be getting any better with running, so I decided to carefully remove the base plate on the locomotive to check the axles.

 

I cleaned them with a cotton bud and Isopropyl alcohol removing a bit of black oil-type stuff and then lubricated sparingly with a gaugemaster oil pan I also did the connecting rods and motion at the same time and replaced the base plate making sure everything was aligned properly.

 

The loco is now running a lot better but not perfect. I'm going to give it a run-in over the weekend and see how it goes. Hopefully, it will get smoother.

 

I have to say this is one of the worst steam locos for running out of the box. I've had

 

 

 

Is it actually stopping? Mine was and was causing a short, thought it was going to have to go back but is fine now. First 'potential' problem I've had with a Bachmann and that's why I looked no further for the 9F. Never even looked at the Hornby version after my experiences with the 87, HST and APT - that's 3 out of only 4 Hornby's I own. I think if you are in any doubt then it might be worth considering a return. It is an inconvenience and a pain but at the end of the day these things cost a lot of cash and should be right, yes even out of the box.  

[APT Fan]

I read somewhere on this forum that Steam loco's need more maintenance than Diesels? How so? Is it to do with the con rods? I've read in the manual that the bearings need occasional lubricating but do the con rod joints need light oiling as well?

Thanks

[MikeParkin65]

43 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

I read somewhere on this forum that Steam loco's need more maintenance than Diesels? How so? Is it to do with the con rods? I've read in the manual that the bearings need occasional lubricating but do the con rod joints need light oiling as well?

Thanks

Yes a light drop of oil on anything that moves once in a while helps. Also clean the back of the wheels where the pickups contract with IPA or track cleaner - might be worth doing this now actually as they can be dirty when new (from the manufacturing process I guess) which will inhibit performance. 

[The Meerkat]

is it down to a license that Bachmann has not done re  tooled evening star?

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, The Meerkat said:

is it down to a license that Bachmann has not done re  tooled evening star?

Unless I’m mistaken, bachmanns 2023 9F’s are not a brand new tooling. They just modified the tooling to allow Consett-Tyne Dock locos to be produced. They have some Evening Star many times since the 9F was introduced and I would think with Hornby’s Evening Star people have the fantastic version. I bought the Bachmann/Locomotion wooden boxes set of 9F Evening Star and Class 66 Evening Star and my Bachmann 9F has been replaced with the Hornby one. Once Acccurascales Class 66 Evening Star is released, both my Bachmann locos will stay in the Wooden Presentation box.  

[The Meerkat]

4 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Unless I’m mistaken, bachmanns 2023 9F’s are not a brand new tooling. They just modified the tooling to allow Consett-Tyne Dock locos to be produced. They have some Evening Star many times since the 9F was introduced and I would think with Hornby’s Evening Star people have the fantastic version. I bought the Bachmann/Locomotion wooden boxes set of 9F Evening Star and Class 66 Evening Star and my Bachmann 9F has been replaced with the Hornby one. Once Acccurascales Class 66 Evening Star is released, both my Bachmann locos will stay in the Wooden Presentation box.  

ahh i thought it was re tooled with decoder etc in the tender?

[Hilux5972]

On 07/01/2024 at 08:51, The Meerkat said:

ahh i thought it was re tooled with decoder etc in the tender?

Moving the decoder doesn’t really classify as retooling.