Rugby Union - thoughts on the HAKA

[Graham108]

I always think it's unfair that the All Blacks are allowed to perform this when no other nation has the option. I don't mind traditional games like the Barbarians, or even the British Lions when on tour, but for a 'normal' competitive game it should have been stopped years ago. I remember a story doing the rounds when Bill Beamount was being proposed for President of World Rugby, the All Blacks hierarchy were against his appointment as it was rumoured he was of the same opinion.

[The Lurker]

I once saw a clip of the All Blacks performing the Haka at Twickenham in the late 60s. It was so half hearted and pathetic it was hilarious…more like morris dancing than anything warrior like. 

[woodenhead]

And what’s wrong with it?

 

it adds a little spice to a game, I am sure most people in the crowd or at home quite enjoy it, I do.

 

just because no one else has any interesting traditions ahead of competition is not reason to deny New Zealand one.

[Pete Haitch]

Why would any other nation wish to perform something of Mauri Heritage? It was danced in the UK by a touring Mauri team in 1888 in tests against the UK home nations so we've had 130 years to get used to it.

 

It's not only the All Blacks. For example; Tonga challenge with the Sipi Tau, Fiji the Cibi, Samoa the Siva Tau, Cook Islands the Pe'e. 

Australia tried to introduce Waltzing Matilda but it wasn't considered of cultural heritage. Some Aus club teams have faced this type of challenge with an Aboriginal war cry, which could well meet the criteria for test matches. 

 

Some teams, who don't have their own cultural thing, have chosen to pay a fine to the IRB and face-up the Haka - the Irish team in 89 were brilliant. It's a shame we don't see more of Oceania Rugby over here.

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Pete Haitch

[Bon Accord]

I'm just amazed that in 2023 it hasn't been banned on the grounds of cultural appropriation.

[PhilH]

What a grey colourless world we would live in if everything was banned just because it was this that or something else. Thank God I'm an old man, I won't have to put up with this bullcrap much longer.

[Bert Cheese]

I  have to confess to only ever having endured "playing" rugby once at senior school back in 1984...the local bullies seemed to enjoy it more than the rest of us and and a bad back/calf strain note was produced therafter much  to the disgust of my P.E ""teacher"

 

As for the Haka...I find it a somewhat cringeworthy spectacle myself, but if the Andy Duncombe's of this world derive some sort of manly pleasure from it so be it for their sake...NZ Morris dancing indeed and long may it continue as such...

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Bert Cheese

[tigerburnie]

Richard Cockerill standing nose to nose with Norm Hewitt was a classic, you can find it on youtube

[62613]

22 hours ago, The Lurker said:

I once saw a clip of the All Blacks performing the Haka at Twickenham in the late 60s. It was so half hearted and pathetic it was hilarious…more like morris dancing than anything warrior like. 

Be careful! Be very, very, careful!"

[Pete the Elaner]

If no other nation is allowed to perform such a ritual then that surely that is wrong? The same rules (or restrictions) should apply equally to everyone.

If they choose not to, then that is another matter.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

22 hours ago, woodenhead said:

...just because no one else has any interesting traditions ahead of competition...

England had one. The experience of the  visitors enduring the national diet and drinking warm beer is still within living memory.

[Pete Haitch]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

If no other nation is allowed to perform such a ritual then that surely that is wrong? The same rules (or restrictions) should apply equally to everyone.

If they choose not to, then that is another matter.

National teams from many other nations perform a similar ritual before a match - its just that (excluding NZ) they tend not to come from the 'white westernised' nations.  

[Pete Haitch]

8 hours ago, tigerburnie said:

Richard Cockerill standing nose to nose with Norm Hewitt was a classic, you can find it on youtube

Why I think the current IRB rules are an insult to both the team issuing the challenge and the one receiving it. O.K. there can't be a fracas before the kick-off but surely the Haka (or equivalent from another team) deserves a warrior's response; and the other team should be allowed a more appropriate response than just standing there like they're queuing for a portaloo at Glastonbury,

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

England had one. The experience of the  visitors enduring the national diet and drinking warm beer is still within living memory.

Images of a Pythonesque sporting event with a bunch of jolly rugger chaps warming up in front of the opposition by downing pints of room temperature bitter.

 

And probably not 100% far from the truth back in the day.

[sb67]

Always thought the English version would be along the lines of,  downing 10 pints, lining up, shouting "come on then, who you looking at! you want some" and then end up fighting amongst themselves! 

[Bernard Lamb]

I quite like the idea of keeping old traditions going. Even if they have become toned down  bit.

It's rather more friendly than taking things to their ultimate conclusion and putting your enemies in the cooking pot.

Bernard

[Steamport Southport]

22 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Images of a Pythonesque sporting event with a bunch of jolly rugger chaps warming up in front of the opposition by downing pints of room temperature bitter.

 

And probably not 100% far from the truth back in the day.

 

Not rugby, but not far off.

 

Pipes and pints!

 

 

[wombatofludham]

I'm more surprised that people can actually have a problem with the Haka.  I'm pretty sure it has zero impact on the game outcome compared to fitness levels and team technique.

I also recall the All Blacks and Wales bowed to their Japanese hosts at the 2019 Rugby World Cup to show respect for the immense support they got from the Japanese public. Small touches that help cement a reputation of respect that some nations and their fans would do well to reflect on.

[woodenhead]

18 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

 Small touches that help cement a reputation of respect that some nations and their fans would do well to reflect on.

Especially those fans of the round ball game and their need to remind the opposition of tragedies.

[wombatofludham]

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Especially those fans of the round ball game and their need to remind the opposition of tragedies.

At the risk of diversion to kickball, Wales have a good reputation and although I'm no fan of kickball, there was a very interesting experience when Wales did well in the Eurovision Kickball Contest 2016 (not sure if that is the correct name for it but whatever). When the team arrived back at Cardiff Airport the whole team were greeted by fans, stopped for selfies and to sign autographs, chatted with the fans and generally interacted.  By comparison, whenever the England kickball team go anywhere, they depart from the old Elmdon  building at Birmingham, are police escorted on the bus to the aircraft, all cloaked in secrecy.  Ever since Wales went to Azerbaijan a group of fans have supported an orphanage in Baku and every time Wales end up in Baku they visit the orphanage. They have extended this programme to other less well off states such as Serbia and Moldova, and the fan group doing this fundraising has been going on since 2002.  Recently in 2022 the fans earned the respect and admiration of the Mayor of Brussels for turning out the morning after their defeat by Belgium to clean up the mess they had left behind the night before.

It seems wherever Welsh fans go they try to make friends, sure they like a bevvie or nine but they would rather sing than have a punch up.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

At the risk of diversion to kickball, Wales have a good reputation and although I'm no fan of kickball, there was a very interesting experience when Wales did well in the Eurovision Kickball Contest 2016 (not sure if that is the correct name for it but whatever). When the team arrived back at Cardiff Airport the whole team were greeted by fans, stopped for selfies and to sign autographs, chatted with the fans and generally interacted.  By comparison, whenever the England kickball team go anywhere, they depart from the old Elmdon  building at Birmingham, are police escorted on the bus to the aircraft, all cloaked in secrecy.  Ever since Wales went to Azerbaijan a group of fans have supported an orphanage in Baku and every time Wales end up in Baku they visit the orphanage. They have extended this programme to other less well off states such as Serbia and Moldova, and the fan group doing this fundraising has been going on since 2002.  Recently in 2022 the fans earned the respect and admiration of the Mayor of Brussels for turning out the morning after their defeat by Belgium to clean up the mess they had left behind the night before.

It seems wherever Welsh fans go they try to make friends, sure they like a bevvie or nine but they would rather sing than have a punch up.

 

 

You do remember when Wales was banned from actually playing in Wales for two years and had to play their 1978 WC Qualifying game against Scotland in Liverpool due to the Welsh fans hooliganism?

 

There was also a time they couldn't play within 100 miles of Cardiff due to the South Wales fans causing trouble. Mostly fighting between themselves.

 

I can assure you Welsh football isn't all daffodils and singing, Cardiff and Swansea had a reputation as bad as Millwall!

 

Just go to any derby between Wrexham and Tranmere/Chester, it's a blood bath.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_national_football_team_home_stadium

 

I'm sorry. It's pure nonsense to suggest that English fans are bad whilst all the others are angels. They aren't and I've followed football all over Europe. 

 

You didn't see the Welsh, Irish and Scots causing trouble at tournaments as they hardly ever qualified for anything, and certainly didn't get through to the later matches that mattered.

 

They even got rid of the Home Internationals because they were scrapping all the time....