How does this work?

[PhilH]

I'm watching an interesting video on YouTube of a class 59 which broke down I think yesterday (not only steam locos which breakdown it seems) on an aggregate train. Apparently it overheated and was shut down. A rescue engine was sent in the form of a 66 which coupled onto the rear of the train. The whole thing then moved off with the class 59 leading as a dead engine and 66 propelling it. My question is would the person in the 59 be able to drive the train using the 66 as the power or would it all have to be done via radios? 

[Wickham Green too]

Certainly no direct control of the rear loco though the leading driver can control the brake ..... I don't know what options there are for loco to loco radios.

[The Johnster]

I suspect they use mobile phones these days.  It is traditional in these circumstances for communication to be by horn and handsignal... 

[BR60103]

If a diesel is broken down, how do they make compressed air for the horn?  or does it work from something else?

[darrel]

The GSMR radio in the cab can be used as a two way radio. The driver in the leading loco will still have control of the brake. The horn will still work as there will be air supplied from the loco at the rear

[LMS2968]

The practice of assisting FAILED (correct railway terminology, not broken down.  Break down implies derailment, hence breakdown crane to rerail it) trains from the rear is almost as old as railways themselves, and was noted on the Liverpool & Manchester Railway in the 1830s, long before radio, mobile phones or GSMR. Co-operation was by hand (lamps at night) and whistle signals. This happened before the introduction of the continuous automatic brake so the driver of the failed engine had no control over the assisting one. The rule covering assistance from rear is 179(c); the only instruction about working is, "The assisting train must run at reduced speed, and great caution must be observed by all concerned." Basically, use common sense.

[iands]

In the situation described in the OP, the drivers of the two loco's would use the GSM-R radio to communicate (not mobile phones). GSM-R has a special function for such instances where the driver of the assisting loco can log on to the same GSM-R head code as the leading loco for a 'secure' comms link. 

[Wickham Green too]

As discussed elsewhere, there are rules about ( not ) mobile phones in cabs but I can't remember details.

[Steadfast]

Any chance of a link to the video please @PhilH?

If the driver at the front can control the brake, its forward at 25mph max. If the only brake available is the emergency dump valve, it's 10mph to clear the line only. Both drivers sign the route, so even with wagons in front, the rear loco driver will still know if he's going uphill, downhill etc so would roughly know if it needs a lot of power or not. Comms with the lead driver then help fill in the gaps. If the rescue loco came 1Z99 from a yard, a set of back to back radios may well have been brought along.

 

* Horns, wipers etc are fed off the air supply on the loco, but from the auxiliary not the main reservoir. If the loco is shut down, I believe there is no way of feeding the auxiliary reservoir from the main reservoir or brake pipes, so the train has no horn available, and thus the appropriate rule book requirements would have to be followed for horn failure.

 

* Note this is how the 66s are setup, I don't sign 59s but would imagine they're the same.

In normal operation, the compressor feeds both main reservoir and the auxiliary reservoir. In a failed or DIT state, the main res is filled from the yellow pipe, but there is not cross feed between that and the auxiliary reservoir.

 

Simplistically, in a normal healthy loco imagine you're filling two buckets with water from one hose, but the two buckets are not connected to each other. So if the tap is turned off (ie loco shuts down), bucket 1 can't supply water to bucket 2 as they are not connected to each other. 

 

Jo

Edited September 11, 2023 by Steadfast

[Steadfast]

1 hour ago, iands said:

In the situation described in the OP, the drivers of the two loco's would use the GSM-R radio to communicate (not mobile phones). GSM-R has a special function for such instances where the driver of the assisting loco can log on to the same GSM-R head code as the leading loco for a 'secure' comms link. 

Correct, but in real terms if they're available it's usually easier to take a set of back to back Motorolas. In practice, the GSM-R function is used so rarely, most drivers have probably never seen it, let alone remember how to set it up.

 

25 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

As discussed elsewhere, there are rules about ( not ) mobile phones in cabs but I can't remember details.

 

Most, probably all, operators have non mobile phone use policies in the cab.

 

Jo

[PhilH]

Thanks for all the replies.

[PhilH]

38 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

Any chance of a link to the video please @PhilH?