Three link coupling

[Sweet pea]

Hi I have a new Bachmann 13 ton steel open wagon. I'm wanting to replace the stock coupling to three link coupling. 

Never done this before so where is the best place to purchase them from and are they easy to fit.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

One option, there are others:

https://www.petersspares.com/c/smiths/smiths-couplings-oo

 

Easy enough to install, make slot in bufferbeam, glue in hook.

 

But now the questions.

 

Is this a VB fitted high steel? If so it should have a screw link not 3 link.

 

What minimum radius do you intend to operate the wagon over? 24" is the usual practical minimum, and larger is better, especially if there is going to be a lot pf propelling on curves. Totally incompatible with set track points in particular.

 

 

 

 

[Sweet pea]

1 minute ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

One option, there are others:

https://www.petersspares.com/c/smiths/smiths-couplings-oo

 

Easy enough to install, make slot in bufferbeam, glue in hook.

 

But now the questions.

 

Is this a VB fitted high steel? If so it should have a screw link not 3 link.

 

What minimum radius do you intend to operate the wagon over? 24" is the usual practical minimum, and larger is better, especially if there is going to be a lot pf propelling on curves. Totally incompatible with set track points in particular.

 

 

 

 

Hi yes it's the VB fitted high steel. Thanks for keeping me right on the screw link. Are these available.

[brossard]

Nothing looks quite so good as prototype couplings.  However there may be drawbacks as suggested above.  Don't go overboard with fitting these.  Fit one each to two wagons and do some testing on your layout.  Propelling is usually the acid test, particularly reverse curves.  The other thing is getting them coupled and uncoupled and there are tools for this I think, Lanarkshire Models springs to mind but I'm out of touch.  I made my own for my 0 gauge stock.

 

John

Edited October 3, 2023 by brossard

[Sweet pea]

Just now, brossard said:

Nothing looks quite so goo as prototype couplings.  However there may be drawbacks as suggested above.  Don't go overboard with fitting these.  Fit one each of two wagons and do some testing on your layout.  Propelling is usually the acid test, particularly reverse curves.  The other thing is getting them coupled and uncoupled and there are tools for this I think, Lanarkshire Models springs to mind but I'm out of touch.  I made my own for my 0 gauge stock.

 

John

John I don't have a layout. The wagon in question will be going onto a diorama. I just want the wagon to look right.

[Steamport Southport]

A modern alternative that look good and can be used.

 

https://www.accurascale.com/collections/couplers/products/screw-link-couplings-pack-of-8

 

And don't forget that most fitted wagons would have Instanter rather than screw link couplings.

 

https://www.accurascale.com/collections/couplers/products/instanter-couplings-pack-of-8

 

 

Jason

[brossard]

1 minute ago, Kevin Johnson said:

John I don't have a layout. The wagon in question will be going onto a diorama. I just want the wagon to look right.

 

Oh well, we're all good then.  As for wagons looking right, check pictures of your wagons - Paul Bartlett's collection is a great resource.  In the BR era, BR used screw link and instanter for fitted wagons.  Instanter were a GWR invention so pre nationalization non GWR stock would typically not have them.  BR adopted instanter for some freight vehicles as they were cheaper and lighter than screw link.  Screw link would always be used for passenger stock.

 

John

[Wheatley]

44 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

And don't forget that most fitted wagons would have Instanter rather than screw link couplings.

Not LNER High steels, as Brossard says. All the examples in Tatlow vol 4 and Larkin vol 5 (where the couplings can be seen) have screw couplings. BR built high steels or LNER unfitted wagons converted to vacuum by BR - different story perhaps. Pre-nationalisation the other companies would have to pay a licence to the GWR to use instanters so most of the ones you see on LNER, SR and LMS wagons will be BR-fitted replacements. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Wheatley

[Sweet pea]

I have read that quite a bit of work is needed to fit screw couplings as you have to cut into the chassis.

Something I don't won't to do.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Kevin Johnson

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

Not LNER High steels, as Brossard says. All the examples in Tatlow vol 4 and Larkin vol 5 (where the couplings can be seen) have screw couplings. BR built high steels or LNER unfitted wagons converted to vacuum by BR - different story perhaps. Pre-nationalisation the other companies would have to pay a licence to the GWR to use instanters so most of the ones you see on LNER, SR and LMS wagons will be BR-fitted replacements. 

 

Doesn't say LNER though?

 

Plenty of pictures on the Bartlett website with Instanters.

 

 

Jason

[brossard]

50 minutes ago, Kevin Johnson said:

I have read that quite a bit of work is needed to fit screw couplings as you have to cut into the chassis.

Something I don't won't to do.

 

Take a pic of the underside of the wagon so we can maybe see what's involved.

 

John

[Steamport Southport]

45 minutes ago, Kevin Johnson said:

I have read that quite a bit of work is needed to fit screw couplings as you have to cut into the chassis.

Something I don't won't to do.

 

Only if you are using sprung ones made from etched brass or similar. It's normally just a small slot. Push the coupling shank through, add the spring and then secure in place.

 

 

Have a look at the Accurascale ones. Removing the stub probably wouldn't be too difficult. 

 

I bought a pack of each myself to try. 

 

 

Jason

[Wheatley]

15 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Doesn't say LNER though?

 

Plenty of pictures on the Bartlett website with Instanters.

 

 

Jason

Fair enough if it's the B-prefixed version. 

[brossard]

28 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Only if you are using sprung ones made from etched brass or similar. It's normally just a small slot. Push the coupling shank through, add the spring and then secure in place.

 

 

Have a look at the Accurascale ones. Removing the stub probably wouldn't be too difficult. 

 

I bought a pack of each myself to try. 

 

 

Jason

 

As Kevin has said that the wagons are on a diorama, springing isn't going to matter.  However, when used operationally, springing is very useful.  Sprung buffers are useful too.  These two features, working together, help to prevent buffer lock.

 

John

[Sweet pea]

Hi everyone thank you for all the comments these are most helpful. 

I would imagine before adding the coupling I would need to remove the hook which is already fitted.

[Barclay]

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Only if you are using sprung ones made from etched brass or similar. It's normally just a small slot. Push the coupling shank through, add the spring and then secure in place.

 

 

Have a look at the Accurascale ones. Removing the stub probably wouldn't be too difficult. 

 

I bought a pack of each myself to try. 

 

 

Jason

Would you report back on your findings? These look like a really good deal if they are strong enough to stand proper use.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Kevin Johnson said:

Hi everyone thank you for all the comments these are most helpful. 

I would imagine before adding the coupling I would need to remove the hook which is already fitted.

 

If it's only for a diorama I'd leave the existing hook in and fit just the links into the existing gedge slot, or if it hasn't got one, making one with a scalpel is easy enough.

 

Mike.

[Sweet pea]

Mike thanks I was thinking about just adding the links to the stock hooks originally.👍

[Sweet pea]

Just ordered some instanter couplings from accurascale. These will be fine as it's only going onto a diorama.😊

[Steamport Southport]

On 04/10/2023 at 08:42, Barclay said:

Would you report back on your findings? These look like a really good deal if they are strong enough to stand proper use.

 

I will do. But it might be a little while.

 

It might be worth looking through the Accurascale wagon threads as I'm pretty sure they now come in the pack.

 

 

Jason

[Enterprisingwestern]

On 04/10/2023 at 09:42, Barclay said:

Would you report back on your findings? These look like a really good deal if they are strong enough to stand proper use.

 

Yes they are, with the proviso (in my case) that the existing hook is replaced with a brass one, Ambis, Masokits etc, as I can't imagine (an untested theory) that the little square peg on the AS hook is strong enough to mount securely enough in the buffer beam.

 

Mike.

[RCP]

On 03/10/2023 at 19:57, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

One option, there are others:

https://www.petersspares.com/c/smiths/smiths-couplings-oo

 

Easy enough to install, make slot in bufferbeam, glue in hook.

 

But now the questions.

 

Is this a VB fitted high steel? If so it should have a screw link not 3 link.

 

What minimum radius do you intend to operate the wagon over? 24" is the usual practical minimum, and larger is better, especially if there is going to be a lot pf propelling on curves. Totally incompatible with set track points in particular.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you tell me the difference between the LP1/2 and 10, I can't find any description anywhere of the differences.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 03/10/2023 at 20:09, Steamport Southport said:

And don't forget that most fitted wagons would have Instanter rather than screw link couplings.

This needs significant qualification. Only on some GW wagons before nationalisation. Only on some fitted and unfitted  wagons after nationalisation while steam was operating.

 

My recollection - largely BR(ER) - is that instanters were more often on unbraked freight stock, especially BR's mammoth build of 16T minerals. The fitted wagons were generally screw link at the end of steam in 63.

 

Thereafter, not a clue!

 

Is there a study with the data of quantities of wagon coupler types fitted (and retrofitted) year by year under BR management? Never seen one, but haven't gone looking...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

27 minutes ago, RCP said:

Can you tell me the difference between the LP1/2 and 10, I can't find any description anywhere of the differences.

These are all three link types, so loose coupled, not really appropriate for fitted freight stock.

LP1 is a practical 3 link coupling for operation on a layout.

LP2 is the instanter design 3 link for 'not quite so loose' coupling, with the weird banjo shaped middle link.

LP10 is a closer to scale dimension 3 link coupling.

 

The item that best suits is LP12, screw link. That's my opinion, but the choice is yours

 

[Steamport Southport]

On 09/10/2023 at 15:28, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

This needs significant qualification. Only on some GW wagons before nationalisation. Only on some fitted and unfitted  wagons after nationalisation while steam was operating.

 

My recollection - largely BR(ER) - is that instanters were more often on unbraked freight stock, especially BR's mammoth build of 16T minerals. The fitted wagons were generally screw link at the end of steam in 63.

 

Thereafter, not a clue!

 

Is there a study with the data of quantities of wagon coupler types fitted (and retrofitted) year by year under BR management? Never seen one, but haven't gone looking...

 

I thought we were talking about BR 13T steel opens?

 

Many of these have still got the Instanter couplings. Most got them from new. I assume that the ones with screw couplings were later additions taken from scrapped wagons.

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandisesteel

 

I'm afraid I always answer the OP question rather than a general one. No idea where GWR or LNER came into the equation.

 

 

Jason