RMweb Premium PMP Posted October 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said: Everybody who wants to live in the countryside should be made to apply for a permit to do so. The people who live and work there, especially for vital industries such as food production, would be granted them without problem The chartered surveyors in barn conversions would have to justify in environmental terms whey they need to live in the countryside. If they can't, then either they do not get the permit, or they should be taxed extra in proportion to the excess detrimental environmental effects they produce. What is the countryside? What is the size of settlement? Simple question, you have an idea that revenue should be generated by people living outside urban areas. Lets accept that, what is the number of residents you have in mind for that cut off point? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Whizz Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 8 hours ago, BachelorBoy said: Not many contour lines on that - you can see why somebody thought it would make a good site for an airfield of some description. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, APOLLO said: Rural folk / lifestyle is a very, very small % of the environmental (etc) problem. Barking up the wrong tree. Most things can be broken down into being a small percentage of a bigger problem. Action is needed on every front. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Just now, Willie Whizz said: Not many contour lines on that - you can see why somebody thought it would make a good site for an airfield of some description. The National LIbrary of Scotland has a website somewhere that allows to cross-fade between maps from different eras. Sorry, but I can't find the link quickly. It's fascinating seeing what bits of Heathrow lie on top of what. There are a few, but not many, ghostly traces of previous roads and streams in the layout of the modern airport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, PMP said: What is the countryside? What is the size of settlement? Simple question, you have an idea that revenue should be generated by people living outside urban areas. Lets accept that, what is the number of residents you have in mind for that cut off point? That needs proper analysis of the costs and benefits. I'm not going to be a politician and make up some number off the top of my head. Indeed, proper analysis might show that the idea is unworkable. So be it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said: Everybody who wants to live in the countryside should be made to apply for a permit to do so. And for those who grew up there or already live there but now do a job that requires them to travel to a nearby town or city? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 So cram us all into a 15 minute city . This is the future ? Brit15 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 minute ago, 009 micro modeller said: And for those who grew up there or already live there but now do a job that requires them to travel to a nearby town or city? 2 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: And for those who grew up there or already live there but now do a job that requires them to travel to a nearby town or city? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Uncoupler Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 In the USA, for many years they've had drive-in cinemas, then they invented the "drive-thru" take-away restaurants, now copied by McDonald's and others over here. So why don't we have drive-through model railway exhibitions, obviously the aisles will need to be made wider, wider still for buses, and one-way only, and then there'd be no need for a car park. BK 1 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: And for those who grew up there or already live there but now do a job that requires them to travel to a nearby town or city? They'd have to argue their case too. How far away is the town or city? Two miles? Probably not an issue? Forty miles? Well that would be more difficult to justify, wouldn't it? Especially if there's someone who wants to move from the city and work from home, and is prepared to invest money in harvesting rainwater for grey use, planting reed beds to purify their sewage, install solar panels, etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted October 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said: That needs proper analysis of the costs and benefits. I'm not going to be a politician and make up some number off the top of my head. Indeed, proper analysis might show that the idea is unworkable. So be it. You have just given a politicians answer though. I asked you for your personal thought on that number, assuming you're not trolling, to come up with your tax thought you must have an idea on this notional number of who should pay, and where that line would be drawn between a settlement/urban area or countryside. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kirby Uncoupler said: In the USA, for many years they've had drive-in cinemas, then they invented the "drive-thru" take-away restaurants, now copied by McDonald's and others over here. So why don't we have drive-through model railway exhibitions, obviously the aisles will need to be made wider, wider still for buses, and one-way only, and then there'd be no need for a car park. BK Why not make it like a safari park? 😂 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, APOLLO said: So cram us all into a 15 minute city . This is the future ? Brit15 Fifteen minute cities exist. I live in one. But I doubt British people in suburbs would want to give up their gardens in order to live in high-rise apartment blocks. Even if the front garden has actually been concreted over to park a car. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 minute ago, PMP said: You have just given a politicians answer though. I asked you for your personal thought on that number, assuming you're not trolling, to come up with your tax thought you must have an idea on this notional number of who should pay, and where that line would be drawn between a settlement/urban area or countryside. I don't. What is wrong with admitting that, and saying proper analysis needs to be done? Don't you wish more politicians would say that and mean it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBL Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 28 minutes ago, NBL said: So by your reckoning, I should have applied for a permit? Tell me why. Tell me what excess detrimental effects I produce. Still waiting on your answer @BachelorBoy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said: They'd have to argue their case too. How far away is the town or city? Two miles? Probably not an issue? Forty miles? Well that would be more difficult to justify, wouldn't it? Especially if there's someone who wants to move from the city and work from home, and is prepared to invest money in harvesting rainwater for grey use, planting reed beds to purify their sewage, install solar panels, etc Again a bit daft. It doesn’t take into consideration those who have more than one job, or live further out because it isn’t affordable to live in the city centre, or live with their family who already live in “the countryside” (or suburban areas, which in the south is probably a more relevant and specific term anyway). Some of these apply to me currently, and I can’t work from home because I’m visitor-facing so that’s also a largely irrelevant distinction. It’s a superb example of RMWeb thread drift, but given that this thread started out with a perfectly sensible question about how to make our hobby more sustainable and plan model railway exhibitions that are more easily accessible by public transport I’m still not clear how we’ve got to the point, seven pages in, where on one side people are suggesting you should essentially have to get a visa to live in your own country (or even your own county), and on the other side are arguing that we shouldn’t do anything at all about climate change. Still, whatever makes people happy… 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Back to the original subject. I think that exhibition organisers need to be prepared for questions about sustainability, and think of ways to justify their choices. And show that they're thinking about such things and trying to do something. (It could be worse ... imagine trying to justify burning coal and pumping all sorts of muck into the air on a preserved railway) The questions are going to get tougher and tougher as climate change worsens. The biggest weakness in PR terms is to be a railway enthusiast who doesn't believe in using public transport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Whizz Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 18 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said: Everybody who wants to live in the countryside should be made to apply for a permit to do so. The people who live and work there, especially for vital industries such as food production, would be granted them without problem The chartered surveyors in barn conversions would have to justify in environmental terms whey they need to live in the countryside. If they can't, then either they do not get the permit, or they should be taxed extra in proportion to the excess detrimental environmental effects they produce. One could, I suppose, equally well argue that since the habit of most people dwelling in cities has been overall more detrimental to the environment than most people dwelling in the countryside - as we all used to until about 250 years ago without marked damage being caused - then everyone who lives in cities should be paying additional taxes for all the harm they cause; and require a permit to breed (which would be granted only in the most exceptional circumstances) so that eventually city-dwelling dies out as a way of life; population numbers return to pre-Industrial levels over a couple of generations, and most of the so-called 'advances' in modern technology that require the use of scarce and/or polluting natural materials become redundant or die away ... However, I have begun to suspect that some recent posters have begun to "wind us up" on purpose. Either that, or we need to elect a fascist Dictator to implement all this stuff - somebody in the style of PG Wodehouse's Roderick Spode, 7th Earl of Sidcup and leader of the Black Shorts Movement in the 'Jeeves and Wooster' books - you know, the one who proposed when he won power to introduce an Act of Parliament converting all Britain's railways to the Broad Gauge so that sheep could be transported sideways in sheep vans, therefore enabling larger numbers to be moved in greater comfort for the animals than standard gauge trains where they had to be accommodated 'fore and aft'. Very environmentally-friendly, that idea. Hmmm .... 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, NBL said: Still waiting on your answer @BachelorBoy... Everyone who wants to live in the countryside should be made to apply for a permit, The criterion for granting them needs proper financial and environmental analysis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 A very interesting presentation, definitely worth watching from the start but the climate change part starts at 16:00. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 BTW: I am not being serious about permits to live in the countryside. But I have met green fascists (they of course don't think of themselves as that) out there who would love to implement such a scheme. Let that be a warning. The culture wars have only just begun. Ooer. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said: However, I have begun to suspect that some recent posters have begun to "wind us up" on purpose. Either that, or we need to elect a fascist Dictator to implement all this stuff - somebody in the style of PG Wodehouse's Roderick Spode, 7th Earl of Sidcup and leader of the Black Shorts Movement in the 'Jeeves and Wooster' books - you know, the one who proposed when he won power to introduce an Act of Parliament converting all Britain's railways to the Broad Gauge so that sheep could be transported sideways in sheep vans, therefore enabling larger numbers to be moved in greater comfort for the animals than standard gauge trains where they had to be accommodated 'fore and aft'. Very environmentally-friendly, that idea. Hmmm .... Yoinks. I've been rumbled. And your point about fascist dictators is perfect. Edited October 17, 2023 by BachelorBoy changed "on point" to "perfect" 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 So glad I'm 71 and have seen and achieved what I have and helped to build this countries infrastructure over my lifetime. So glad my children are dual nationals and have a sunny pleasant alternative country to live in if / when it all goes tts up here. (Though every country has problems to varying degrees) God help us Brits in the future. The powers that be have set us against each other - that is all part of their plan. Brit15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 42 minutes ago, NBL said: So by your reckoning, I should have applied for a permit? Tell me why. Tell me what excess detrimental effects I produce. I don't know you. How am I supposed to calculate without you providing me with information? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said: However, I have begun to suspect that some recent posters have begun to "wind us up" on purpose. Indeed. Just now, BachelorBoy said: BTW: I am not being serious about permits to live in the countryside. Then why keep pushing the idea? 7 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said: The biggest weakness in PR terms is to be a railway enthusiast who doesn't believe in using public transport. Didn’t there used to be people, even in the 50s and 60s when car ownership was lower, who drove to Tywyn to volunteer on the Talyllyn? I’m not sure if this was always in situations where it was quicker than the equivalent rail journey either. 9 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said: (It could be worse ... imagine trying to justify burning coal and pumping all sorts of muck into the air on a preserved railway) A bit off-topic for model railway exhibitions specifically but, in relation to heritage railways, I wonder if we’ll see a revived emphasis on main line connections (for those railways where it’s viable to extend to a main line connection, obviously not all of them are in a position to practically do this)? In the past this seems to have been more important as a lot of people visited by rail, but perhaps in future they’ll start to become important again as a way of visiting heritage railways in a sustainable way (this isn’t the same thing as the heritage line itself providing ‘public transport’, which is a different discussion). Conceivably you could even have a situation where a line obtains a grant to extend to a main line connection, on the basis that this opens it up to a wider (non-car using) audience and allows people to visit in a more environmentally friendly way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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