RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted October 18, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2023 I think it's important to separate what we think of environmental and sustainability issues from what we might think of green parties, green NGOs, activists etc. Some green NGOs and activists are excellent, others do fall into 'ends justify the means' thinking, some appear more interested in stuff other than the environment (whatever the current thing is) and lots more possibilities. In life it is not good to judge all people from the worst examples of a group (neither is it wise to assume the best represents all). It's perfectly possible to be an environmentalist while also hating the green party and those activists who give environmentalism a bad name. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 hours ago, jjb1970 said: I think it's important to separate what we think of environmental and sustainability issues from what we might think of green parties, green NGOs, activists etc. Some green NGOs and activists are excellent, others do fall into 'ends justify the means' thinking, some appear more interested in stuff other than the environment (whatever the current thing is) and lots more possibilities. In life it is not good to judge all people from the worst examples of a group (neither is it wise to assume the best represents all). It's perfectly possible to be an environmentalist while also hating the green party and those activists who give environmentalism a bad name. Exactly. Depending on who I have been in conversation with I have been labelled everything from (And these are the exact words) "A tree hugging hippie" to a "Fascist biker bully boy" oddly enough, by folks who claimed to have the environment as their number one priority. At least it helps distinguish those who are genuine from those who have a ( to their mind ) bigger agenda. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Sometimes we need to be more pragmatic with things, yeah some idea's are nice, but in practice they don't really work. The internet, particularly twitter, is a cesspool of opinions. Go to your pub, model club, society etc and in most cases you'll have perfectly reasonably conversations with very different people. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 10 hours ago, MrWolf said: Liberal fascists An oxymoronic term which does little to inspire confidence in the content of the rest of the post… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 8 hours ago, BachelorBoy said: 1) If you think that is a problem already, then it is, in the short term, insoluble. Well, insoluble unless you are prepared to kill hundreds of millions of people, perhaps billions. I would hope you are not. 2) The problem is, very slowly, beginning to solve itself. (The secret is to educate girls, so they then prefer to have careers instead of lots of children). China is now longer the country with the world's most people. Its population shrank last year for the first time since the man-made famine of the late 1950s. That's projected to drop by a further 100mn by 2050. Japan's population dropped by nearly a million in 2022. Hong Kong, South Korea, and Singapore all have birth rates well below replacement levels. If current trends continue (always a big "if") the UN says the world population should peak at 10.4 billion towards the end of the century. Not suggesting it’s not a problem, but there is an issue with ‘overpopulation’ as a concept in environmentalism, as covered here (i.e. the underlying ideology and how people think we should reduce the population): https://www.sierraclub.org/washington/blog/2020/01/overpopulation-myth-and-its-dangerous-connotations Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: An oxymoronic term which does little to inspire confidence in the content of the rest of the post… Really? That is someone who claims to be accepting of all peoples, all beliefs, life choices and culture, until someone disagrees with their world view in the slightest manner. They then get particularly nasty, or dismiss everything else you might have to say. Thank you for proving my point so concisely. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, MrWolf said: Really? That is someone who claims to be accepting of all peoples, all beliefs, life choices and culture, until someone disagrees with their world view in the slightest manner. They then get particularly nasty, or dismiss everything else you might have to say. Thank you for proving my point so concisely. You can’t be both a ‘liberal’ and a ‘fascist’, it’s a contradiction in terms. I’m not sure what point I’m supposed to be proving here… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, 009 micro modeller said: You can’t be both a ‘liberal’ and a ‘fascist’, it’s a contradiction in terms. I’m not sure what point I’m supposed to be proving here… It's a term used to mock hypocrisy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, MrWolf said: It's a term used to mock hypocrisy. The irony of this, and some of your previous posts, clearly escapes you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 15 hours ago, Torper said: Anyway, we can all go on about transport, energy, food and all these other things the Greens get het up about, but no-one ever mentions the elephant in the room and the world's greatest threat to the environment, i.e. overpopulation of the human race. Now what are we going to do about that? Until that little problem is resolved we might as well forget about all the others. The red Chinese had the one-child policy. OK, so it failed but at least they tried, which is more than anybody else has done. Some factions work on the opposite principle - if you can successfully ban contraception/abortion, you'll eventually outbreed competing groups who allow it. In practice, because our species doesn't have a natural predator which has a field day whenever its food supply get out of hand, we have always controlled excessive population differently from the rest of the animal kingdom. We had a good go at reducing numbers during 1914-18 and again in 39-45, and the Middle East looks like it's beginning to have another major cull. All through history we have reduced the surplus of humans by having a war with some other religion, nation or tribe. To bring this back on topic, perhaps it's worth noting that weapons of mass destruction are generally not very environmentally friendly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 25 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: You can’t be both a ‘liberal’ and a ‘fascist’, it’s a contradiction in terms. I’m not sure what point I’m supposed to be proving here… Perhaps you're suggesting that as the next party they will form a coalition with? Fascists would probably win more seats if we did have Proportional Representation. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Reagan August 12 1986 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Whizz Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 6 hours ago, Darius43 said: Before this thread becomes more like a Daily Mail readers comments section, perhaps we should read what this green crusader has to say. Darius It’s called democracy and free speech. Perhaps you have a problem with that? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold C126 Posted October 18, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, Gt.Shefford said: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Reagan August 12 1986 Please may I beg to suggest the late Ronald Reagan, his economic policies, and their consequences, have not been wholly beneficial to the environment or people's health and wealth over the last forty years. Sorry to drag us even more off topic. 😀 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted October 18, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said: You can’t be both a ‘liberal’ and a ‘fascist’, it’s a contradiction in terms. I’m not sure what point I’m supposed to be proving here… I think the point @MrWolf is trying to make is that the term 'fascist' seems to be frequently misused by some of those who claim to be liberal, yet are themselves intolerant of other worldviews. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted October 18, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2023 Don’t feed Mr Wolf. As someone that frequents the eBay madness thread I am here to testify that there is an infinite well of useless information and edgy humour that will be forthcoming whether you want it or not. Cheers Darius 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted October 18, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said: It’s called democracy and free speech. Perhaps you have a problem with that? This isn’t a democracy. It’s a model railway web forum administered and policed by the moderators. The original subject was model railway related but it’s degenerated into a scrum with people with silly names hurling the words “facist” and “free speech” about. Time this thread was locked, I think. Cheers Darius Edited October 18, 2023 by Darius43 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted October 18, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, Darius43 said: The original subject was model railway related but it’s degenerated into a scrum with people with silly names Pretty much the definition of the internet provided by a bloke who’s surname, (if he’s not using a silly name), appears to be digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted October 18, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, Darius43 said: Time this thread was locked, I think. LOL That would be the end of free speech on this thread. 😀 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Willie Whizz said: It’s called democracy and free speech. Perhaps you have a problem with that? Where does he (or anyone else) suggest he has a problem with it? I might have missed that bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Nick C said: I think the point @MrWolf is trying to make is that the term 'fascist' seems to be frequently misused by some of those who claim to be liberal, yet are themselves intolerant of other worldviews. Indeed, but in other contexts I’ve seen the same “point” being made by those who object to not being allowed to air various reactionary, hate-filled and discriminatory “viewpoints” to all and sundry, yet hypocritically want to prevent others from speaking up in opposition to them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: To bring this back on topic, perhaps it's worth noting that weapons of mass destruction are generally not very environmentally friendly. Not disagreeing with this but does it actually bring us back on topic? I don’t think I’ve seen any weapons of mass destruction at model railway shows (as per the original post at the start of the thread). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted October 18, 2023 Moderators Share Posted October 18, 2023 I'm closing this bad tempered topic off, it's not going to produce the answers sought. It never can. 4 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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