Are current RTR models too good for the average modeller?

[Mad McCann]

On 13/11/2023 at 20:47, Clive Mortimore said:

The average modeller

"Wow look at the detail, isn't it wonderful, best thing since the last one a bought"

"It won't go round my radius 2 curves, just like the last one I bought"

"I think I will have a blue engine this month as I had a red one last month"

 

We must remember that many who enjoy railway modelling are not members of a scale/gauge society who limit their modelling to July 1910 at Newport Pangnell station and all of it must be scratch or kit built, but people who just like seeing model trains run, they enjoy the finer detail and the gimmicks.

 

As Joe Strummer sang

" Oh, please mister
Just leave me alone
I'm only
Lookin' for fun
Lookin' for fun
F, U, N"

 

On a personal level regarding detail on today's models, some of it is welcomed by me and some of it I feel is a waste of development and manufacturing time. But my view of an individual model can be different to someone else's.

 

Clive absolutely nails it here.

This hobby is a broad church and people's interests are by definition of Human nature going to be entirely subjective.

 

Myself for example. My core interest is ScR in the 1960s with excursions back to the mid '50s and forward to the blue era.

 

That has not prevented me from gathering such models as the P2, CR828 and a NER-liveried 'G5'* this year.

 

There are others too, chosen purely because I like the look or as in the case of a pair of DRS 37s and FNA-Ds, a memento of my days in the Border City.

 

On the subject of the high levels of detailing, I welcome it with open arms as it sets the bar for my own efforts and pushes me to match it. A current manifestation of this is a trio of 1966 era Perth / Ferryhill Black Fives I'm working on using the 2002 Hornby model as a base with Brassmasters/Comet upgraded parts. I see no point in throwing myself into the fray to purchase that latest incarnation when I can still get a decent base model at a relatively cheap price and bring it up to the required standards myself, albeit the material costs probably balance out in the end if I include my own labour.

 

That said, I have thoroughly enjoyed tweaking up the new 2MT in terms of finish. All the infrastructure and stock on the layout is also being done to a common standard but it is early days and my skills in some aspects are still in the formative stage. 

I'm enjoying the journey though. 🙂

 

Davy.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mad McCann
Grammar/punctuation.

[PaulRhB]

43 minutes ago, PMP said:

The levels of detail has been discussed many times here and in almost every item new release thread. Manufacturers have responded, and continue to do so, to the market wanting more details and more functionality. Simples.

Yes, and the manufacturers have the data so you’ve got to guess the margins on the high detail models are quite a bit better than ‘Railroad’ style because people are prepared to pay more for perceived value too. BMW badges anyone? 
Whichever way you go part of the market will scream, “what about us?”, but economically you have to choose the loss leaders to suit your business. Rapido have mentioned the real cost of wagons in the past so I assume the margins are tighter but they do encourage other sales of their products so worth their while where a second lowfi loco may not be. 
 

On a recent example I’ve bought the Lionheart L&B locos in O16.5, I could have built a cheap whitemetal one years ago on a rtr chassis but it looked wrong in my eyes, I could have bought the etch kit but it was known to have a challenging chassis and I hate building chassis so I passed and went to 16mm then 009. 
So then Lionheart do a model as good as I could have done without all the hassle at a price that’s a fraction of a professionally built one, and far better painted too.

Is it too good for me a fairly average modeller?

No it’s an absolute delight! 

 

I enjoy building layouts and running them, I’m perfectly capable of building etch kits, I’ve done it commercially and got repeat business, but I don’t enjoy it. It feels like work and although I’m pleased with the results they don’t give me the buzz the layout does. I’m very happy when someone eases the process by making the stock rtr and I can concentrate on the bits I enjoy while being more faithful to the prototype and getting the company workshop or Hunslet etc to build the stock. 
Others would rather build the loco as that’s what they enjoy doing and they might commission a layout for them. It’s about fun. 
I do feel for those just starting out on tight budgets when seeing a £200 price tag but the hobby is well enough established to have many cheaper secondhand options and I remember as a kid dreaming of locos I couldn’t afford.

In a couple of cases those locos joined the collection in the last twenty years so I got the buzz about twenty years later 😆

 

I built a Tamiya Rough Rider about 4 years ago on Christmas Day, I remember wearing out the Tamiya catalogue in about 1980 dreaming about having one and having to make do with a Tandy jeep 😉

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

This is the age of the train ?

We're getting there.

Edited November 17, 2023 by AndrueC

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Of course there is only one slogan that really matters; "Midland - The Best Route".

Thank you.

[Mad McCann]

17 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Of course there is only one slogan that really matters; "Midland - The Best Route".

Thank you.

Only if it takes you to "The True Line". 😉

 

Davy

[John B]

33 minutes ago, Mad McCann said:

Only if it takes you to "The True Line". 😉

 

Davy

 

Ah, but the Midland were allies with the Sou' West, mostly. It was the "Premier Line" that hooked up with the True Line, and as you should know more than anyone, there's barely an ounce of truth from a premier.... 

[RichardT]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Sometimes an association becomes a blight; should have been 'Clunk, Click; you're off to the nick'.

In spades for BR - after they stopped using JS, they then adopted Mr Gadd to promote young persons railcards - you can hardly believe it now.  The NRM has drawers full of 1970s & 80s BR posters which won’t be able to be displayed without controversy for decades.  (Sorry, OT)

[Peter Kazmierczak]

45 minutes ago, Mad McCann said:

Only if it takes you to "The True Line". 😉

 

Davy

 Not sure that the Midland and the Caley were on the same hymn sheet...

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, Mad McCann said:

 

Clive absolutely nails it here.

This hobby is a broad church and people's interests are by definition of Human nature going to be entirely subjective.

 

True that interests are going to be subjective, but I think that this hobby, like some others, are about following different religions or faiths. Some are constrained by physical restraints (space, income), others by lack of imagination, learned skills, self confidence or motivation.

 

Some choose the RTR way fervently waiting the high priests' announcements of new idols, others choose to follow the way of the Maker of All Things to lead their activities. Some like it large, others small. So there are different places of worship, churches, chapels, mosques, synagogues, mandirs, temples, etc. The idea of a "broad church" doesn't really cover it, it's too loose.

 

In response to the OP, the answer is No. People that buy the latest RTR models get pleasure from buying/owning them. For some it has become Conspicuous Leisure. How long lasting that satisfaction lasts for I cannot guess as I only build from kits or scratchbuild. Whether owning the latest models motivates people to improve their "modelling" is the question. I suspect that it doesn't for the majority as they have already defined their own standard for what they want to achieve and so continue with that, the "new, improved" models simply adding some gloss.

[stewartingram]

1 hour ago, RichardT said:

In spades for BR - after they stopped using JS, they then adopted Mr Gadd to promote young persons railcards - you can hardly believe it now.  The NRM has drawers full of 1970s & 80s BR posters which won’t be able to be displayed without controversy for decades.  (Sorry, OT)

Much as I abhor the wrongs of Jimmy Saville, and others, it really irks me that the likes of him get totally blanked from society. Sorry, his (their) good side  shone through at the time. That should still be remembered.

Its rather like rewriting history, with no mention of Nazis & Hitler.

Edited November 17, 2023 by stewartingram

[woodenhead]

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

P,p,p,p pick up a penguin.

For mash get Smash.

Central heating for kids.

 

Memorable slogans are for life.

Waaaaaasssssssupppppp.

[woodenhead]

52 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Much as I abhor the wrongs of Jimmy Saville, and others, it really irks me that the likes of him get totally blanked from society. Sorry, his (their) good side  shone through at the time. That should still be remembered.

Its rather like rewriting history, with no mention of Nazis & Hitler.

Whilst also appreciating that the ‘good’’ stuff was the charade he used to mask his true self.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, stewartingram said:

It’s rather like rewriting history, with no mention of Nazis & Hitler.

And recording in documentaries in context is fine but remembering the adverts done for commercial gain that is going to be seen as celebrating him by many families isn’t really appropriate here. I think best left well alone unless qualified for the uninitiated with the context of his crimes each time. Many aren’t if that generation or even in the UK. 

[Phil Parker]

9 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I think best left well alone

 

Wise words. Back to RTR models please.

[The Johnster]

My attittude to my layout, Cwmdimbath, is that it is not a model railway, it is as far as possible (which is pretty far, at least inside the confines of my mind) a real railway serving the needs of a real mining village in a real place*, except that it's 70 give-or-take-five years ago, and small.  Small, Dougal, as opposed to far away...  With this as the core principle behind the layout, I attempt, with varying degrees of success, to make it as realistic a representation of a mining village that never actually existed as I can, and RTR is a core element of that approach.  If I want a model of something that is not available from RTR provision, I will then look to see if a kit is available and build that, and failing that I will consider scratch-building as a last resort.  Most of my locos have been renumbered to represent locos that were allox Tondu during my timeframe, some have detail alterations (removal of top feeds, repositioning of lamp brackets) and none are in original OOB condition.  Some coaches are compromises, Hornby Collett 57' suburbans doing duty as South Wales coaches for example, and there are intentions, such as Hornby Collett 57' cut'n'shuts to produce an all-third and a BT with the correct number of compartments for South Wales.  My attempt to work up a 2h K's 44xx was abandoned as soon as Rapido announced theirs, but it's a bit Rule 1 anyway, and my kit-bash 3100 is shelved at the moment but by no means abandoned; at least there is photographic evidence of this beast penetrating the mountain fastnesses...  There's also a BR standard 3MT tank, on loan from Barry who are in no rush to take it back...

 

I'd say that's pretty average, but I won't for fear of arousing the OT wrath of the the admins.

 

 

*Cwmdimbath is the valley of the Nant Lechyd stream, a tributary of the Ogwr Fach river joining it between the villages of Glynogwr and Hendreforgan.  It is one of the very few valleys in upland Glamorgan not devastated by coal mining (though it is, literally, undermined by pits sunk in the surrounding valleys), and never had a village, pit, or railway in reality, but my model's alternative reality does not spare it.  There was a tramroad serving a water-powered forge up there in the 19th century, the trackbed of which can still be followed up to it's ruins; my pub is named 'The Forge' in honour of this mostly-forgotten and not especially important piece of local industrial history (I very much doubt if many people living in the area have ever heard of it), and is more or less on the (model) site of the (actual) ruins, little more than remnants of the lower courses of stonework.