Underscale model - is this a record?!

[Nick Lawson]

As (more) displacement activity I started tidying up one of my 1960s childhood Playcraft/Jouef open wagons; if only to remove my poor 1970s paint job (in progress below). Along the way I wondered if I could somehow adapt it to fit my 1923 layout, but it is a bit on the long side for that era, being 20' long with a 12' wheelbase.

 

Then I noticed it claimed to be a 22T tube wagon, so I looked that up e.g.  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmstube The layout of the body side generally  matches  the 1/447 & 1/448 prototypes with the minor detail that the model has an extra plank, but  more conspicuously has been "longitudinally challenged" to a fabulous 10.5 FEET under the length of the  ex-LMS 1/447, let alone a 12 feet shortfall against the BR 1/448! The model claims to be B731490 which is in the right area, but I don't know which of the two prototypes it belonged to. Any offers?

 

Various models have been detected as being under scale size, but I'm sure I can hear the spirit of the late Roy Castle exclaiming "It's a RECORDBREAKER!". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_Breakers

[Dungrange]

This website - https://www.ltsv.com/rd/batch_detail.php?id=BWB-731490 - indicates that it was the first from a batch of 100 22t Tube Wagons built in 1953 to Design 1/447 as Lot 2457.

[Barclay]

The basic dimensions are about right for a number of the L&Y's open wagon designs, though the pattern of strapping is wrong.

[HSB]

It's actually overscale in some dimensions as Playcraft were supposed to be H0 scale!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Or you could rub the sides down flat and stick on sheeting with a couple of pressed steel side doors each side to represent an LNE 20T steel loco coal wagon. Must be a large choice in wagons for a 12'wb/21'6" over headstocks steel underframe.

 

Alternatively, just repaint as is, code it 'TUB' and let folks scratch their heads over that.

[41516]

81.5mm length over ends, 33mm wide, 17.85mm tall. Shorter than a Pipe and a plank too tall.

[Hesperus]

I suspect the prize will go to some prewar tinplate like the Hornby 4 wheeled Pullman's.

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Hesperus said:

I suspect the prize will go to some prewar tinplate like the Hornby 4 wheeled Pullman's.

 

Vaguely based on the LBSCR ones, but should be six wheelers rather than four.

 

I think they were eventually altered to bogie stock by putting two together on a new chassis. But some of the shorties survived as luggage vans for a bit longer.

 

One here.

 

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/LBSCR-tender-locomotives/LBSCR-B2/i-CZGN3WN/A

 

 

Jason

[Nick Holliday]

9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Vaguely based on the LBSCR ones, but should be six wheelers rather than four.

 

I think they were eventually altered to bogie stock by putting two together on a new chassis. But some of the shorties survived as luggage vans for a bit longer.

 

One here.

 

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/LBSCR-tender-locomotives/LBSCR-B2/i-CZGN3WN/A

 

 

Jason

If this is the one, then the LBSCR 6 wheel  Pullman style vans could hardly be the inspiration.  To put the record straight, there were only two of them, and they were built as mobile generators to provide the new fangled electricity to light the contemporary Pullman cars, and built in a similar style to match. The first was scrapped in 1912, and the second, larger one, was burnt out in 1915, and neither were rebuilt.  It was the more orthodox six-wheeled passenger brakes, both centre ducket and two ended type, that were the ones rebuilt into 54'  bogie stock, but not as full brakes, but with passenger accommodation added, either newly built or recovered from other six-wheeled stock.

[Fat Controller]

On 11/11/2023 at 16:15, Nick Lawson said:

As (more) displacement activity I started tidying up one of my 1960s childhood Playcraft/Jouef open wagons; if only to remove my poor 1970s paint job (in progress below). Along the way I wondered if I could somehow adapt it to fit my 1923 layout, but it is a bit on the long side for that era, being 20' long with a 12' wheelbase.

 

Then I noticed it claimed to be a 22T tube wagon, so I looked that up e.g.  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmstube The layout of the body side generally  matches  the 1/447 & 1/448 prototypes with the minor detail that the model has an extra plank, but  more conspicuously has been "longitudinally challenged" to a fabulous 10.5 FEET under the length of the  ex-LMS 1/447, let alone a 12 feet shortfall against the BR 1/448! The model claims to be B731490 which is in the right area, but I don't know which of the two prototypes it belonged to. Any offers?

 

Various models have been detected as being under scale size, but I'm sure I can hear the spirit of the late Roy Castle exclaiming "It's a RECORDBREAKER!". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_Breakers

They did a 21t fitted coal to a similar spec; they also did what seemed, at first, to be a Plate, but turned out to be an OCEM low-sided open.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 11/11/2023 at 16:15, Nick Lawson said:

Various models have been detected as being under scale size

I feel this competition needs to be better organised by production date, thus for RTR OO:

In production, (easy winner, Bachmann's Midland van).

 

Out of production, by decade

 

Needs someone obsessive with too much time on their hands to organise...

 

Someone equally obsessive with too much time on their hands can organise the over scale size segment.

 

😉

 

 

[Nick Lawson]

50 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Needs someone obsessive with too much time on their hands to organise

Nope, not going there.

 

51 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

(easy winner, Bachmann's Midland van).

the brake van?

[Nick Lawson]

On 14/11/2023 at 16:43, HSB said:

actually overscale in some dimensions

Well the frames are HO width, but the body is about the same width as OO, so I assumed they had adopted a euro loading gauge which had worked out about right.

[Nick Lawson]

On 14/11/2023 at 22:24, Hesperus said:

suspect the prize will go to some prewar tinplate

Ah yes, now you mention it, no contest really.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 minutes ago, Nick Lawson said:

the brake van?

No, the goods van 37-802/803

[roythebus1]

Surely anything made by MTK would be the winner?

[doctor quinn]

On 15/11/2023 at 11:20, Fat Controller said:

They did a 21t fitted coal to a similar spec; they also did what seemed, at first, to be a Plate, but turned out to be an OCEM low-sided open.

The coal wagon had 24.5t moulded into the wagon number panel so that was vertically challenged. I think it was too long and too wide so it would pass as a fitted 21tonner.

[BernardTPM]

Yes, the steel mineral has the proportions of the 21t version, but slightly wide for H0 like most Playcraft offerings.

[Compound2632]

On 16/11/2023 at 11:42, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

No, the goods van 37-802/803

 

That's intended to represent an LMS van, not a Midland one. It goes back to Mainline in the late 70s, doesn't it? So the interval between the model being designed and now is greater than between the model being designed and its putative prototype being designed.