Planned Obsolescence

[Andy Kirkham]

I want to buy a new portable DAB radio and this one is attractive and has good reviews https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3243053

 

However I see that it has a built-in battery which I don't think is replaceable, so when the battery becomes exhausted, the radio will cease permanently to be portable. I queried this with Roberts, who responded promptly, saying that the battery was reckoned to be good for 500 cycles so that if it were recharged once every week it would last for 10 years. It seems a bit odd to me that none of the many reviews  have read mentions this as a drawback. On the other hand I don't think any of the DAB radios I've had has lasted as much as 10 years without some significant bit of it failing, so I wonder if it is worth quibbling about the finite life of the battery. Do we have to accept that consumer goods like this only last a few years?

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Andy Kirkham said:

I want to buy a new portable DAB radio and this one is attractive and has good reviews https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3243053

 

 

DAB itself is obsolescent, it is being replaced by DAB+.  DAB only radios won't work any more with the new system, much like 405 line TV and analogue TV sets.  The one you linked to appears to be sufficiently modern to do both however.

[jjb1970]

This is a pet hate of mine. The other answer you get from manufacturers is that you can take it to a service center for battery replacement,  yes but you'll probably find it's so expensive that you're better off just buying a replacement. 

 

I can get that things like wireless in ear monitors are so small that sealed batteries are the most sensible option, though that's why I use wired IEMs (and headphones). However a lot of other stuff could easily be engineered with user replaceable batteries with minimal to zero impact on size. My (company issue) lap top has a sealed battery for example. Every mobile phone I've ever had has seen battery charge drop off a cliff after about two years.

 

What makes it especially messed up is that I read an article on a photography website recently that manufacturers may kill DSLR cameras as declining sales (the market has changed to mirrorless) mean it isn't worth modifying designs for USB-C charging as required by the EU. So a product which is designed for a long life and with user changeable batteries may be killed because regulators insist on USB-C charging but they're happy to accept throwaway goods with sealed batteries and exorbitant battery replacement costs.

 

On life, it depends on use case. If you use it a lot those 500 cycles will last a lot less than 10 years. Amazon make grand claims for Kindle E-reader battery life but if you read a lot battery life is nothing like as long as claimed. For a bit of fun you could ask Roberts for the basis of charging once a week.

 

A lot also depends on battery chemistry. Some batteries degrade gracefully so even as they lose charge it's gradual and they keep a useful charge long after the rated cycles. Others fall off a cliff.

[Michael Hodgson]

3 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Some batteries degrade gracefully so even as they lose charge it's gradual and they keep a useful charge long after the rated cycles. Others fall off a cliff.

 

And some are such a pain they get chucked off the cliff in disgust.

[fulton]

While on the subject of obsolescence, I was reading a review of an App based burglar alarm system, with all sorts of features like video, a "plus" point, was that the manufactures said they would support the App for at least TWO years, will it possibly not work after that?

[Reorte]

7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

DAB itself is obsolescent, it is being replaced by DAB+.  DAB only radios won't work any more with the new system, much like 405 line TV and analogue TV sets.  The one you linked to appears to be sufficiently modern to do both however.

Frequently a problem with technology, which is one reason (of many!) I usually prefer to stick to low tech ways of doing things, when they do the job sufficiently well.

[Michael Hodgson]

58 minutes ago, fulton said:

While on the subject of obsolescence, I was reading a review of an App based burglar alarm system, with all sorts of features like video, a "plus" point, was that the manufactures said they would support the App for at least TWO years, will it possibly not work after that?

Their business model is probably not the product itself but a subscription income from the app.

Strikes me a misleading if not dishonest advertising.

[kevinlms]

Modern TV's have the same issue, the manufacturers stop updating the software. It means they still work, but are they protected to safely connect to the internet? Or is it just a matter that they will no longer correctly adjust for the likes of Daylight Saving? Or find new TV channels?

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Reorte said:

Frequently a problem with technology, which is one reason (of many!) I usually prefer to stick to low tech ways of doing things, when they do the job sufficiently well.

 

Until the lowest tech available is discontinued as, for example, the BBC dumping Radio 4 Longwave next year.

 

[jjb1970]

18 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Modern TV's have the same issue, the manufacturers stop updating the software. It means they still work, but are they protected to safely connect to the internet? Or is it just a matter that they will no longer correctly adjust for the likes of Daylight Saving? Or find new TV channels?

 

This is why I can't see the  point in spending much for a TV anymore. We have a very nice Sony 4k model which is just a monitor for the boys XBox and a Bluray player. Nowadays even entry level models have excellent image quality and if software is going to be the limiting factor for useful life there isn't much point worrying about durability and quality. We have a Samsung 42" model which was 'free' as part of our broadband package and it is just fine and if it stops accepting apps and starts freezing etc in a couple of years it's no big deal.

[Ron Ron Ron]

19 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

DAB itself is obsolescent, it is being replaced by DAB+.  DAB only radios won't work any more with the new system, much like 405 line TV and analogue TV sets.  The one you linked to appears to be sufficiently modern to do both however.

DAB+ is also slowly becoming obsolescent, as with all dedicated radio sets, as more people tend towards streaming all their media.

We have just withdrawn our kitchen DAB+ radio from service, having replaced it with a voice controlled smart speaker, that will play almost any radio station, or choice of music, on a quick verbal command.

We’ve already had a Sonos system around the house, for almost 10 years.

The only radio set we now use, is our bedside FM/AM alarm clock radio, which I’ve been thinking about replacing for a while.

 

Another example, a son and daughter, with their own homes, who don’t possess a single radio set between them.

In my son’’s case, his media comes via another Sonos system, his Sky box, his iPhone and iPad Pro.

Daughter uses her smart devices and a couple of smart speakers (Home Pods).

 

Our next door neighbours use a Sonos in their large open plan living area and some cheap portable smart speaker elsewhere.

 

A lot of dedicated devices, like radios, cameras, portable music players, electronic calculators etc, have been, or are being replaced by ubiquitous smart devices.

The obsolescence is being moved to another place, but at least the functionality is transferable.

 

I’ve collected together a bunch of our old, no longer used stuff from various cupboards, drawers and storage boxes, to be disposed of.

 

2 compact 35mm APS cameras

2 compact digital cameras

4 various electronic calculators

a handheld electronic recorder

a portable CD Walkman.

a portable Mini-Disc Walkman 

2 DAB radios ( one with DAB+ the other next to useless)

1 DAB / Internet radio ( dead electronics)

1 FM/AM portable radio

2 iPod’s

2 iPod Touch’s

4 old, non- smart mobile phones

2 slide rules !!!  not electronic, but

2 Bluetooth speakers - dumped on us by offspring.

a touch-tone remote control, for an old BT branded, tape based answerphone (used to access voice messages directly from the recorder in the device, rather than from the cloud)

 

The functions these discarded devices used to perform, are now all carried out by iPads, iPhones and Smart speakers.

When those devices eventually fail, or are no longer serviceable, the functions can simply be transferred onto something else.

 

 

.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[33C]

Like most model locomotive motors are guaranteed for 10000 hours running.

Unlike the chassis blocks....

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Modern TV's have the same issue, the manufacturers stop updating the software. It means they still work, but are they protected to safely connect to the internet? Or is it just a matter that they will no longer correctly adjust for the likes of Daylight Saving? Or find new TV channels?

 

Our oven connects to the internet and the one single useful feature this could bring, that of connecting to a time server to set the clock does not happen. Instead you have to connect to the companion phone app and sync the clock the the time on your phone.

 

Also expiring security certificates are a thing...

 

https://borncity.com/win/2020/06/12/abgelaufene-zertifikate-kicken-iot-gerte-ins-abseits/

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

We have just withdrawn our kitchen DAB+ radio from service,

 

We have a DAB radio we no longer use.

Not because it doesn't work or the battery is worn out (it's replaceable) but because the case has a coating of rubbery soft-touch plastic that has degraded into a disgusting sticky slimy mess.

[spamcan61]

2 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

We have a DAB radio we no longer use.

Not because it doesn't work or the battery is worn out (it's replaceable) but because the case has a coating of rubbery soft-touch plastic that has degraded into a disgusting sticky slimy mess.

I've had this happen with 3 items now, a USB CD drive and a couple of MP3 players. Sort of recovered the situation by cleaning off the residue with acetone. Lexus had the same problem with dashboards on one model.  Not a phenomena I've seen until recent times.

 

In terms of the gist of the thread then in the final event manufacturers don't get a continuous revenue stream by selling us something once so 'everything' is designed for limited life. I have at least 2  Internet radios that don't work as 'radios' any more because the servers they need have been shut down.

[kevinlms]

7 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

Our oven connects to the internet and the one single useful feature this could bring, that of connecting to a time server to set the clock does not happen. Instead you have to connect to the companion phone app and sync the clock the the time on your phone.

 

Also expiring security certificates are a thing...

 

https://borncity.com/win/2020/06/12/abgelaufene-zertifikate-kicken-iot-gerte-ins-abseits/

More years ago than I care to remember, I went out to a customer who told me that a phone line stopped working, after a fridge was installed! I gave them a blank look, but went looking for the problem.

Sure enough the drinks fridge - a major soft drink manufacturer branded one, had an inbuilt modem. Used apparently to tell the fridge owner, when a service man, needed to come out to restock it.

 

The installer had just disconnected any existing line and connected that. The problem was that particular line was early in the automatic selection for incoming calls. So calls were coming in on that line and being answered by the fridge - same effect as a fax answering!

 

So I restored it how the line was previously and told the customer that the best option, was to get a dedicated line, solely for the fridge!

[Reorte]

48 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Until the lowest tech available is discontinued as, for example, the BBC dumping Radio 4 Longwave next year.

That's when I start getting annoyed (OK, not personally in this particular case since I don't listen to Radio 4 LW, but the point remains), when something perfectly functional starts getting replaced with high tech versions, making it a problem to not do the same thing in a fundamentally more complex way.

 

This doesn't mean wanting to go back to the most basic way of doing something. When an idea is new it's usually pretty awkward - maybe promising, maybe slightly better than whatever really arduous means existed previously, but usually in need of improvement to be truly beneficial. Then it develops and improves over time until (IMO) it hits a sweet spot. Then carries on developing, and just gets silly, and from there, offensive, when it becomes the only option offered. There's a reason "reinventing the wheel" is a phrase.

 

Where that sweet spot is is pretty subjective of course, and hugely variable. Medicine's not reached it yet for example, even though you could argue it's a game of diminishing returns. Radio got there with FM. Space travel's still at the very first stage (ground travel passed it decades ago).

[Reorte]

21 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

Our oven connects to the internet and the one single useful feature this could bring, that of connecting to a time server to set the clock does not happen. Instead you have to connect to the companion phone app and sync the clock the the time on your phone.

That's a great example of it passing the sweet spot and getting silly!

 

All I've got that connects to the internet are computers (three of them, which some might in turn label silly, but using electronics for entertainment appears to be an exception to most of my rules that I conveniently try to ignore!)

[Torper]

It  has taken cansumer capitalism to a new level.  Until quite rcently our economic system relied on the manipulation of consumers to purchase a product based on their desire for it rather than an actual need for the good or service.  Clearly that's not working well enough, so now manufacturers have ensured that a need arises as well the desire.

[TheQ]

6 TVs, Only one TV is smart, 3 have DTV non smart adaptors, two are DTV in their own right, half the TVs we were given.

3 laptops, one is retired but still works, xp, and a very tired battery 

3 computer monitors.

3 PCs, only one in use, two reserved for a model railway project.

12 radios (some ex of cars) only one DAB., modeling room and workshop each have one, loom shed will get one.. the rest?

3 phones one out of contract very ancient. 

Two hifi systems. Ones in the model railway shed, the other the living room.

Three tablet computers. I'm typing on one SWMBO is looking at another, her old one she takes either with pictures on for painting class doesn't have to worry about getting paint on it.

 

I've changed batteries on this tablet and on a phone never had a problem changing batteries on anything even if there was dire warning of no user changeable parts inside, except for one navigator whose odd shaped battery was unobtainium.

 

Which takes me to TomTom navigators whose "lifetime updates" had a very short life.

 

And theres just 2 of us...

 

[Hroth]

ChromeBooks are also time-limited, after several years, Google withdraws updates.  If you're looking at one, its a good idea to find out when it was introduced, the "bargain" ones may be within a few years of life expiry.

 

And it's not that straightforward to install an alternative OS* on one that Google has abandoned either...

 

* A lightweight Linux is the best bet, but some features may be unsupported.

 

[57xx]

11 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Modern TV's have the same issue, the manufacturers stop updating the software. It means they still work, but are they protected to safely connect to the internet? Or is it just a matter that they will no longer correctly adjust for the likes of Daylight Saving? Or find new TV channels?

 

I bought a Sony 40" flat screen TV in 2004 (I remember the time well as Currys had a £100 trade in offer at the time - I took in an old 14" mono CRT TV and the manager said, "Yup, that qualifies for discount"). The TV is still going strong today as a hand me down to my other half's daughter. The bits that stopped working were things like Youtube and BBC iPlayer where the technology changes in the apps prevented the new apps from working on the old TV and so updates stopped coming through. A Roku stick soon sorted out internet connectivity.

[ejstubbs]

10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

2 compact 35mm APS cameras

 

APS did not use 35mm film, it was 24mm wide.

 

35mm cameras are not obsolete: you can still buy 35mm film, either ready-loaded in cassette or on 50ft or 100ft bulk rolls that you can load into your own cassettes (I chore I used to subject myself to in order to save money as an impecunious youth).   I still have a small collection of 35mm film cameras, including my Dad's old Yashica rangefinder camera with a built-in CdS meter, a Zenit (which could also be used as a self-defence weapon, it's that heavy), an early 1980s Chinon SLR (which was actually available with autofocus lenses back in the day) and a couple of more modern compact rangefinder cameras.  I've put film through each one of them in the last year and had perfectly good prints from all of them.

[APOLLO]

11 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

I’ve collected together a bunch of our old, no longer used stuff from various cupboards, drawers and storage boxes, to be disposed of.

 

2 compact 35mm APS cameras

2 compact digital cameras

4 various electronic calculators

a handheld electronic recorder

a portable CD Walkman.

a portable Mini-Disc Walkman 

2 DAB radios ( one with DAB+ the other next to useless)

1 DAB / Internet radio ( dead electronics)

1 FM/AM portable radio

2 iPod’s

2 iPod Touch’s

4 old, non- smart mobile phones

2 slide rules !!!  not electronic, but

2 Bluetooth speakers - dumped on us by offspring.

a touch-tone remote control, for an old BT branded, tape based answerphone (used to access voice messages directly from the recorder in the device, rather than from the cloud)

 

The functions these discarded devices used to perform, are now all carried out by iPads, iPhones and Smart speakers.

When those devices eventually fail, or are no longer serviceable, the functions can simply be transferred onto something else.

 

Keep the slide rules - at least they will work if we are hit by an EMP from  a nuke !!!!!

 

Brit15

[APOLLO]

Planned obsolecence in our model trains also. I have two expensive locos with fried electronics (both Heljan), and I dont use DCC. I'll try to wire the motor direct to the pick ups, Tri-ang style !!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15