George Orwell buys a toy car ?

[InTheTrainShed]

Well not actually George Orwell as such …
 

Can we assume I have a time machine and I have arrived back in 1984 - I walk into a model shop and want to buy some 1/76 model cars, vans and lorries etc for my 00 model railway - what was available then ?
 

I assume? that the Oxford and Classix ranges were not available back then ?

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Matchbox. The scale varied and was generally slightly large for 00, but they seemed good enough to me.

 

Airfix had quite a range of 1:72 scale kits, mostly aircraft and military. I can't remember if there were any cars.

[AY Mod]

Scratging around second hand stalls for Dublo Dinky https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Dublo_Dinky_Toys and Triang Minix https://tri-ang.weebly.com/tri-ang-minix-models.html - some still not bettered.

[Steamport Southport]

For 1984 as a date for modelling or just available then?

 

As there was quite a few kit manufacturers about then that had reasonably simple kits but most were for older vehicles.

 

Langley, Springside, Keil Kraft and Cooper Craft for example.

 

https://www.langleymodels.co.uk/awd1/index.php?route=product/category&path=190_191_193

 

https://www.springsidemodels.com/4-mm-road-vehicles

 

 

Also many people used whatever was available from Airfix and Matchbox military models. Must have seen hundreds of the Airfix ambulances and Matadors altered to civilian types over the years. Many of which have recently been reintroduced in the Vintage Classics range.

 

And the Keil Kraft Foden must have been one of the biggest cliches around. I'm pretty sure that everybody had one!

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/302295/keil_kraft_k303keil_foden_c_type_steam_wagon/stockdetail

 

 

 

Jason

[InTheTrainShed]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

For 1984 as a date for modelling or just available then?

 

As there was quite a few kit manufacturers about then that had reasonably simple kits but most were for older vehicles.

 

Langley, Springside, Keil Kraft and Cooper Craft for example.

 

https://www.langleymodels.co.uk/awd1/index.php?route=product/category&path=190_191_193

 

https://www.springsidemodels.com/4-mm-road-vehicles

 

 

Also many people used whatever was available from Airfix and Matchbox military models. Must have seen hundreds of the Airfix ambulances and Matadors altered to civilian types over the years. Many of which have recently been reintroduced in the Vintage Classics range.

 

And the Keil Kraft Foden must have been one of the biggest cliches around. I'm pretty sure that everybody had one!

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/302295/keil_kraft_k303keil_foden_c_type_steam_wagon/stockdetail

 

 

 

Jason

Hi Jason. 
 

I am not thinking of modelling the railway in 1984 but was wondering what road models were available to buy ( in 1/76 ) rather than most of the diecast cars of the time as I seem to remember it at least 

[PhilJ W]

I had (and still have) some Tomica models picked up when holidaying in the USA. They are of American cars and commercials and to 1/77 scale. As well as Matchbox there was also the similar Husky models produced by Corgi.

[BernardTPM]

Scale Link, John Day/Malvern Models, Transport Replicas, MiKits, Fleetline, Trux, Westward, Eames; though some of those ranges were already gone by 1984.

It was very sparse on the car/light van front if you wanted anything introduced post 1965.

[SRman]

5 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Scale Link, John Day/Malvern Models, Transport Replicas, MiKits, Fleetline, Trux, Westward, Eames; though some of those ranges were already gone by 1984.

It was very sparse on the car/light van front if you wanted anything introduced post 1965.

 

When did you introduce your CarKit4 range, Bernard? 

Regardless of the answer, when they did appear, they filled quite a few gaps that even now have not all been filled by RTR (Vauxhall Victor FD, Hillman Hunter and derivatives for starters).

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by SRman
Fixing typo.

[BachelorBoy]

12 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

Airfix had quite a range of 1:72 scale kits, mostly aircraft and military. I can't remember if there were any cars.

 

I'm slightly puzzled why OO modellers accept 1:72 models, but not 1:80.

 

[Nearholmer]

If you’re a Railway Modeller subscriber, have a look at layouts of the period, and you will see that any set post-1960 have the same vehicles over and again, as noted above.

 

One hardy item not mentioned so far, I think, was the Landrover from the Airfix Bloodhound missile set, then there was the JCB from the Airfix Lowmac kit, although that was quite hard to find at the time. A bit earlier, 1970s, I recall doing drastic surgery on Airfix US army lorries, ones made from ‘soapy’ plastic, to create vaguely British commercials; the only glue that would stick to it was two part epoxy, which then took at least a day to set, so everything was as risk of sagging!

 

Lots of useful bits in this kit, even if you don’t want to reproduce The Cold War on your layout. The dog was good, although there was also one with a Matchbox Station Wagon too.

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I'm slightly puzzled why OO modellers accept 1:72 models, but not 1:80.

In 1984, both were acceptable, due to lack of anything else!

[quicksilvercoaches]

If you wanted to model a contemporary layout in 1984 I think you would have been completely out of luck with virtually nothing available in 1/76 car or truck wise. The toy manufacturers had long since moved up to around 1/64 scale so Matchbox and Corgi were out, and what few kits were available tended to be of older vehicles from the 1960s or before.

 

EFE was the first diecast manufacturer to work specifically in 1/76 and was still five years away, and I think this was before even the Hornby Sierra appeared. You'd be okay for buses though as 1984 was still within the golden era for whitemetal kits with companies like Pirate and Anbrico making plenty of current types.

 

Looking at photos of modern-image layouts from that era, most seem to use the plastic HO models from European firms like Wiking and Herpa. They're LHD and noticeably too small but the best available at the time. Being a younger modeller (1984 is before I was even born) I sometimes don't appreciate how good we have things nowadays and then threads like this bring home how little choice there used to be.

Edited November 29, 2023 by quicksilvercoaches

[Barclay]

The Coopercraft AEC Monarch was a godsend back then (1981?) and enabled me to retire my old Airfix AEC Matador from service ! Still got it.

 

[SRman]

The old Matchbox catalogues actually listed the scale of each vehicle in the 1 - 75 range. As someone mentioned earlier, there were Tomica and Husky models in suitable scales for that range too. Examples of other brands: I had a Tomica Rolls Royce which had 1:78 moulded as part of the details underneath, and the Husky Ford Zephyr 6 Estate was shown to be 1:75 scale.

I used to separate the different scales from about 1:71 up to 1:78, and make sure that no two vehicles from a scale more than one digit difference were adjacent to each other. So, a 1:71 car could be next to a 1: 72 vehicle, bit not a 1:73, but the 1:72 vehicle could be next to a 1:73, and so on, grading them from the foreground for the larger scales to the background with the smaller scales ... an early form of perspective modelling on my part!

I demonstrated in a talk about road vehicles for layouts that two vehicles separated by around 9 inches or more (in the old measure) could hardly be perceived to be of different scales, using a Corgi MCW Metrobus which was approximately 1:72 scale (not 1:68 as was often put about) and a later, better 1:76 OOC Metrobus. Again the 1:72 model should ideally be presented slightly more to the foreground to really seal the illusion. The Corgi (not OOC) model was not too bad for its time, and was improved considerably by replacing the "speed wheels" that were the fashion of the time they came onto the market. 

[PhilJ W]

7 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

I'm slightly puzzled why OO modellers accept 1:72 models, but not 1:80.

 

Airfix military kits were 1/76 although they were marketed as 1/72 scale for a while.

[PhilJ W]

Earth moving plant and agricultural machinery varies so much in size that you can get away with out of scale models. About 1984 Ertl produced a couple of combine harvesters in 1/80 scale intended for the *American market, some of which made the trip across the Atlantic and were sold in novelty shops in the UK. For their time they were pretty good models and they do appear from time to time at toy fairs usually at little more than a fiver each. *They also made replicas of two cotton picking machines and the usual product was American tractors to 1/64 scale.

[PhilJ W]

The only British plastic kit makers to make military models in 1/76 scale were Airfix and Matchbox. Only the Japanese Fujimi company produced 1/76 scale military models, all the others opted for 1/72 scale. Fujimi produced two Japanese trucks both of which were of pre-war civilian type  but one was a copy of a mid 30's Ford two tonner. The also made kits of a Jeep that featured an open bonnet and an engine and a motorbike and a model Kubelwagen that featured separate vinyl tyres. JB models also produced military models in 1/76 but not until the 90's.

[Steamport Southport]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

If you’re a Railway Modeller subscriber, have a look at layouts of the period, and you will see that any set post-1960 have the same vehicles over and again, as noted above.

 

One hardy item not mentioned so far, I think, was the Landrover from the Airfix Bloodhound missile set, then there was the JCB from the Airfix Lowmac kit, although that was quite hard to find at the time. A bit earlier, 1970s, I recall doing drastic surgery on Airfix US army lorries, ones made from ‘soapy’ plastic, to create vaguely British commercials; the only glue that would stick to it was two part epoxy, which then took at least a day to set, so everything was as risk of sagging!

 

Lots of useful bits in this kit, even if you don’t want to reproduce The Cold War on your layout. The dog was good, although there was also one with a Matchbox Station Wagon too.

 

 

I had an old Airfix catalogue with that picture and never noticed the dog!

 

Funnily enough I'm now pondering the reissue as it's one I didn't have. Maybe I didn't bother looking closely as it was a bit modern. But I did have the SAM 2, probably bought cheap somewhere like Woollies.

 

 

 

Jason

[Nearholmer]

All of which made me look for the Matchbox dog.

 

Model 42b, Studebaker Lark Station Wagon is the one, scale 1:75 or 1:76 according to different sources. It came with a pointing retriever, and a chap shooting something with a shotgun, but it was out of production by 1969, so come 1984 the OP has to hunt for a NOS one in some dusty backstreet toy shop.

[InTheTrainShed]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

All of which made me look for the Matchbox dog.

 

Model 42b, Studebaker Lark Station Wagon is the one, scale 1:75 or 1:76 according to different sources. It came with a pointing retriever, and a chap shooting something with a shotgun, but it was out of production by 1969, so come 1984 the OP has to hunt for a NOS one in some dusty backstreet toy shop.

I remember one model shop with some dusty fruit boxes under the shelves - next time I fire up the time machine I will check to see if there is one under the dead spiders 

[BernardTPM]

17 hours ago, SRman said:

When did you introduce your CarKit4 range, Bernard?
Regardless of the answer, when they did appear, they filled quite a few gaps that even now have not all been filled by RTR (Vauxhall Victor FD, Hillman Hunter and derivatives for starters).

Spring to Summer 1985. First RM review in the November 1985 issue, 1956-8 Hillman Minx.

 

17 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I'm slightly puzzled why OO modellers accept 1:72 models, but not 1:80.

If to be used together I would keep in the 1:75 to 1:77 range.

 

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

All of which made me look for the Matchbox dog.

Model 42b, Studebaker Lark Station Wagon is the one, scale 1:75 or 1:76 according to different sources. I

Husky also did the Studebaker Wagonaire (sliding roof) station wagon (estate). Must be a similar size, though dogless!

[Nearholmer]

7 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Husky also did the Studebaker Wagonaire

I’d completely forgotten that. Yes, the ambulance version of that was around the house too.

 

Between my younger brothers and myself, we had vast numbers of ‘toy cars’, a combination of new ones and jumble sale ones, across all the makers, so there’s a fair chance that anything in the smaller scales made in the 50s and 60s was in there somewhere! The top line Dinky and Corgi we had only a few of, and I regarded them as ‘collectibles’ more than toys, even at the time.

 

Back to 1984: someone brought out a plastic kit of a Scamell Scarab at about that time, I think possibly the Airfix one that had been off the market for ages, and I recall those who were into post 1960 layouts getting very excited by that. I think a few of the real thing, possibly the later ‘squashed nose’ version, were still in service in 1984, in yellow livery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Nearholmer

[PhilJ W]

Their were two Scammell Scarab plastic kits available, both had been so well before 1984. The Airfix model as mentioned and the Merit version. The Merit one was not very good as the nose was too bulbous about 1/64 scale whilst the rest was 1/76. The biggest fault with the Airfix one was the absence of the dividing pillar of the front windscreen brought about by the cab being two pieces divided on the centreline. Incidentally Scammell used the Bedford 'O' cab scuttle, windscreen and roof so the windscreen and roof from the Bedford in the RAF recovery set could be used to improve the Scammell. (The Thorneycroft mobile crane from the RAF set was also used by all the big four railway companies).

[Nearholmer]

36 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

available, both had been so well before 1984

They, or maybe just the Airfix one, seemed to disappear, then reappear at about that time IIRC. 

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

They, or maybe just the Airfix one, seemed to disappear, then reappear at about that time IIRC. 

Yes, Airfix sold all of their railway models to Dapol in the late 70's IIRC.