black and decker boy Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 FirstGroup plans to expand its open access rail operations as part of its award-winning Hull Trains business, building on their successful existing service which has transformed long-distance connectivity between Hull and London. FirstGroup’s new proposals comprise two return journeys a day from London King’s Cross, calling at Retford, Worksop, Woodhouse and Sheffield, and the company aims to provide a faster link between London and Sheffield than alternative services. First Group Press Release 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Makes you wonder if encouraging more open access is a policy as it allows proper privatisation via the back door especially if the initial capacity for these open access operations is off the back of the management contract services reducing services on lines that were previously full to capacity. Franchises left risk with the Government, open access has no such fallback though quite what would happen if all mainline services out of KX or Euston were open access. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 5 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5 (edited) Is this really going to shake the Sheffield -London market ? A quick RTT suggests this could take 2h30 minutes… EMR already has this in 2 hours. interesting claim that passengers would rather drive to Doncaster than Sheffield… but if Woodhouse has a huge potential it might need a better car park to replace the miniature it has currently. Edited January 5 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 5 minutes ago, adb968008 said: Is this really going to shake the Sheffield -London market ? But think of the ease of onward journeys available into London once they arrive at KX rather than St Pancras..... 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 5 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5 8 minutes ago, woodenhead said: But think of the ease of onward journeys available into London once they arrive at KX rather than St Pancras..... Well if you follow the signs for the Northern line it will waste a few minutes of your life that will never get back… just follow piccadilly, or walk at street level to the old tube entrance (where the old ramshackle entrance was before they made it into St Marks Sq of Venice out if it). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 5 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5 27 minutes ago, adb968008 said: Is this really going to shake the Sheffield -London market ? A quick RTT suggests this could take 2h30 minutes… EMR already has this in 2 hours. interesting claim that passengers would rather drive to Doncaster than Sheffield… but if Woodhouse has a huge potential it might need a better car park to replace the miniature it has currently. If the overall journey time is longer than a francjes/contracted competitor's that helps take care of any moderation of competition argument. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 5 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5 49 minutes ago, woodenhead said: But think of the ease of onward journeys available into London once they arrive at KX rather than St Pancras..... Isn’t it across the road? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, Legend said: Isn’t it across the road? It was...but have you seen the walk now from the EMR station past the Eurostar platforms!! Then the steps at the front of the station! It's all on the level at KX 😄 There was a hint of sarcasm in my original comment, it was hidden in the fine print 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinRS Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: Is this really going to shake the Sheffield -London market ? A quick RTT suggests this could take 2h30 minutes… EMR already has this in 2 hours. interesting claim that passengers would rather drive to Doncaster than Sheffield… but if Woodhouse has a huge potential it might need a better car park to replace the miniature it has currently. The BBC reports that, 'FirstGroup said its services would be faster than the EMR route between London St Pancras and Sheffield.' 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, woodenhead said: Makes you wonder if encouraging more open access is a policy as it allows proper privatisation via the back door . That would suggest a degree of joined up thinking and actual policy making in the DfT which reality elsewhere suggests is largely imaginary. You might well be right though. Personally I suspect it represents a change in focus by First to operations where they can set their own objectives and cherry pick rather than having to deal with all that tedious franchise commitment nonsense. I still think 'ORCATS Raider' would look good on one of their nameplates. "The latest ORR figures, published in December 2023, show more people are now travelling with Hull Trains than they did before the pandemic." Not difficult when 2/3 of their pre-covid fleet was on fire. And there is no way in hell I would park my car anywhere near Woodhouse. I did bus co-odinating there once. Edited January 5 by Wheatley 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave75 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Interesting, there has been a lot of house building on that side of the city in recent times. What would be free in the rolling stick front in that timescale, ex TP mk5 and class 68s ? EE Type 4 and Pullmans would be nice 🙂 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 This is obviously the first I have heard of this. Having read about it now, the first thought that came to mind was that it is really intended to be for the people of North Nottinghamshire (or maybe The Bassetlaw Express to be posh) with the Worksop-Sheffield portion of the journey tacked onto the end for some reason ;). Nobody from Sheffield would ever prefer to drive to Doncaster than to Sheffield station, so that rules most of my fellow citizens out. Nobody sane would want to leave anything of value at or around Woodhouse station, let alone a car, unless they are going to have armed guards or something. It may just be me, but gaining access to the ECML at Retford could be interesting. It is not unknown to be able to get a unit rather stuck on the curve there, admittedly that was a pacer and it was a very hot day, but still, it happened. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave75 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 "Nobody from Sheffield would ever prefer to drive to Doncaster than to Sheffield station, so that rules most of my fellow citizens out." I disagree, plenty of people already do it. 20 min drive to Doncaster , easy drop off at the station (unlike the nonsense around Sheffield Station). A cheaper faster journey it makes economic sense. I don't disagree with the woodhouse comments about parking capacity. What this scheme needs is a station with a massive free carpark, near the parkway and the Waverley housing development. (Orgreave/Rotherwood to older readers!) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, dave75 said: What this scheme needs is a station with a massive free carpark, near the parkway and the Waverley housing development. (Orgreave/Rotherwood to older readers!) How convenient then that that is more or less what's planned under the RYR project to reopen the Old Road via Barrow Hill. How lucky for First that they don't have to get involved in all the tedious legwork involved in getting that off the ground. Edited January 5 by Wheatley 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, dave75 said: "Nobody from Sheffield would ever prefer to drive to Doncaster than to Sheffield station, so that rules most of my fellow citizens out." I disagree, plenty of people already do it. 20 min drive to Doncaster , easy drop off at the station (unlike the nonsense around Sheffield Station). A cheaper faster journey it makes economic sense. I don't disagree with the woodhouse comments about parking capacity. What this scheme needs is a station with a massive free carpark, near the parkway and the Waverley housing development. (Orgreave/Rotherwood to older readers!) Sorry I meant to write the south and west side of Sheffield, from where you pretty much have to go past Sheffield station on your way towards Doncaster. It is often more than twenty minutes drive just into Sheffield from that side of town, let alone trying to get to Doncaster .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Maybe First could reopen Woodhead and run a service from Manchester London Rd Piccadilly to KX to recreate the 'Manchester Fliers' 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave75 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 16 minutes ago, woodenhead said: Maybe First could reopen Woodhead and run a service from Manchester London Rd Piccadilly to KX to recreate the 'Manchester Fliers' That idea crossed my mind but let's get from Midland to platform 9 & 3/4 first ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Derek 19B Posted January 6 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6 11 hours ago, Wheatley said: How convenient then that that is more or less what's planned under the RYR project to reopen the Old Road via Barrow Hill. How lucky for First that they don't have to get involved in all the tedious legwork involved in getting that off the ground. If it goes this way it will end up at Chesterfield then St Pancras only gain would be time , it would take the old MS&L route through Worksop to Retford , then turn south just like the Master Cutler did and the Manchester expresses before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) Turn left at Woodhouse Junction. Waverley will be between Darnall and Woodhouse. Edited January 6 by Wheatley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 6 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6 20 hours ago, adb968008 said: Is this really going to shake the Sheffield -London market ? A quick RTT suggests this could take 2h30 minutes… EMR already has this in 2 hours. interesting claim that passengers would rather drive to Doncaster than Sheffield… but if Woodhouse has a huge potential it might need a better car park to replace the miniature it has currently. That is not rocket science to anyone who has attempted to drive in Sheffield City Centre. You use the Park & Ride and take the tram.Doncaster has better accessibility via the M1/M18 link. But not if you live in one of the more salubrious neighbourhoods on the western & south western parts of Sheffield . 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium figworthy Posted January 6 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6 21 hours ago, Wheatley said: How convenient then that that is more or less what's planned under the RYR project to reopen the Old Road via Barrow Hill. RYR ? Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Restoring Your Railway. Sorry, laziness. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted January 6 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6 If you want a laugh, check out the route on the map in the Daily Mail.... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 52 minutes ago, JohnR said: If you want a laugh, check out the route on the map in the Daily Mail.... So that's how they're doing it ! Reopening the London Extention ! I take back everything I said about First, clearly they are visionaries !! 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEdwardII Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 On 05/01/2024 at 15:50, adb968008 said: A quick RTT suggests this could take 2h30 minutes I don't know how you arrive at this figure. KGX to Retford is about 1h30 and even the Northern trains from Retford to Sheffield take less than 45mins. The distance from Retford to Sheffield is just under 30 miles, so it should be possible to do better than that. I'd expect an express-style service to take just over 2 hours to Sheffield via Retford. As always, it depends on how many stops they plan. Yours, Mike. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now