New editor, Railway Modeller

[Steamport Southport]

7 minutes ago, swtrains said:

As the OP here, I had my original query very quickly, and efficiently, answered.

 

As Ian suggested, it has now drifted a little off topic, but all to the good - I am finding this has turned into a fascinating thread and I am learning so much!

 

Just waiting for Chris Leigh to pitch in, as he has a long acquantance with model railway publishing.

 

He already has.

 

VIA185 above ☝️

 

 

My view of the OP is that if people haven't noticed the change then it's a good sign. How many times have we seen someone take over and change everything overnight, often not in a good way? Too many times in my experience.

 

 

Jason

[swtrains]

I think what I really meant was for Chris to pitch in some more - I find the insights fascinating!

 

And yes, I can spell acquaintance - it was only in Steamports reply that I noticed the error - too late to edit.

[VIA185]

23 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

MRC was hardly a later development, having been started in March 1934 with E F Carter as editor. It was acquired by Ian Allan around 1960, so it took them eight years to realise their mistake.

Cyril Freezer, when he left Railway Modeller, moved to Model Railways, one of the incarnation of Model Railway News in its declining years, where he continued editing for a further five years.

I don't think getting into or out of model railway magazines was ever viewed as a 'mistake' or otherwise by Ian Allan. He had no particular personal interest in small scale model railways and it was very much a niche market within a niche market. He sold Railway Modeller - Sydney Pritchard told me that he borrowed a hundred quid off his Mum in order to buy it! The story must be true as he told me the same tale every time I saw him! Basically, IA bought and sold businesses. In due course he bought Railway World Publishing in order to get Railway World, and Model Railway Constructor came as part of the package. Then the fun began! (CJL)

[kevinlms]

7 hours ago, VIA185 said:

I don't think getting into or out of model railway magazines was ever viewed as a 'mistake' or otherwise by Ian Allan. He had no particular personal interest in small scale model railways and it was very much a niche market within a niche market. He sold Railway Modeller - Sydney Pritchard told me that he borrowed a hundred quid off his Mum in order to buy it! The story must be true as he told me the same tale every time I saw him! Basically, IA bought and sold businesses. In due course he bought Railway World Publishing in order to get Railway World, and Model Railway Constructor came as part of the package. Then the fun began! (CJL)

Thanks Chris for the reminder that there can be many and varied reasons for buying a business, any business.

 

Buying RM certainly turned out to be a winner for the Pritchard family.

 

The buyer/owner doesn't have to be particularly interested in all aspects, the main one is that it needs to pay it's way! Unless a pet of the owner - which was suggested earlier by others, with the Freemason supply comments.

I'm not a Freemason, but surely it was a case of only those that were interested, would know about that part of the business or care. So no need for anything to be 'cagey'.

[Enterprisingwestern]

On 10/01/2024 at 18:15, AY Mod said:

We're all entitled to one day

 

And where do you think you're going?!!

 

Mike.

[VIA185]

Railway and model railway journalism has always been something of a game of 'musical chairs' - someone retires or moves on and everyone else moves round one step. When I joined Model Railway Constructor in autumn 1963, I was interviewed by the Editor,Geoff Kichenside. But Geoff was moving on to Railway World and Alan Williams was the new Editor when I actually started work. Sometimes, there were changes of editorial direction involved, too, like when Cyril Freezer moved to Model Railway News (which I seem to recall became Your Model Railway about the same time). David Lloyd once calculated how many of us there were across the whole world. I can't now remember the exact number but it was fewer than 50, which is why the 'job opportunities' were equally few and far between. Indeed, I once applied for a job on Model Railroader! It was good to work with several 'newcomers' over the years - who, like Steve, have gone on to fill the various editorial chairs and will be familiar names to today's modellers. (CJL)

[kevinlms]

35 minutes ago, VIA185 said:

Railway and model railway journalism has always been something of a game of 'musical chairs' - someone retires or moves on and everyone else moves round one step. When I joined Model Railway Constructor in autumn 1963, I was interviewed by the Editor,Geoff Kichenside. But Geoff was moving on to Railway World and Alan Williams was the new Editor when I actually started work. Sometimes, there were changes of editorial direction involved, too, like when Cyril Freezer moved to Model Railway News (which I seem to recall became Your Model Railway about the same time). David Lloyd once calculated how many of us there were across the whole world. I can't now remember the exact number but it was fewer than 50, which is why the 'job opportunities' were equally few and far between. Indeed, I once applied for a job on Model Railroader! It was good to work with several 'newcomers' over the years - who, like Steve, have gone on to fill the various editorial chairs and will be familiar names to today's modellers. (CJL)

No, the horrible change to Your Model Railways was after Cyril Freezer left Model Railways (last as editor) July 1983. The next editor was Ken Jones for a few months, then Dave Lowery became editor and it changed shortly afterwards (October 1984).

In July 1987, it reverted back to plain Model Railways, DL was still editor.

 

But I suspect Dave Lowery had next to no input into the 'Your' name change, but the owners looking for something new.

[Not Jeremy]

The late Iain Rice, who was a significant contributor to “Model Railways”, told a great story about how “men in suits” arrived at an editorial meeting one day to explain that the “party was over” and that the magazine needed to stop bothering about irrelevant details and get back to, err, model railways. “Model Railway Journal” was to a great extent born out of the dog’s breakfast that followed at MR/YMR.

 

Dave Lowery was a later attempt to return some credibility to the whole thing, which he did, but too little and too late I guess(?) A great modeller and still active I think, he very generously helped Iain and I with pictures for the Cameos book.

 

Sadly, “men in suits” have been improving things ever since, God bless ‘em….

[VIA185]

19 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

The late Iain Rice, who was a significant contributor to “Model Railways”, told a great story about how “men in suits” arrived at an editorial meeting one day to explain that the “party was over” and that the magazine needed to stop bothering about irrelevant details and get back to, err, model railways. “Model Railway Journal” was to a great extent born out of the dog’s breakfast that followed at MR/YMR.

 

Dave Lowery was a later attempt to return some credibility to the whole thing, which he did, but too little and too late I guess(?) A great modeller and still active I think, he very generously helped Iain and I with pictures for the Cameos book.

 

Sadly, “men in suits” have been improving things ever since, God bless ‘em….

Dave L is certainly still active - and busy. (CJL)

[Steamport Southport]

On 14/01/2024 at 11:24, kevinlms said:

No, the horrible change to Your Model Railways was after Cyril Freezer left Model Railways (last as editor) July 1983. The next editor was Ken Jones for a few months, then Dave Lowery became editor and it changed shortly afterwards (October 1984).

In July 1987, it reverted back to plain Model Railways, DL was still editor.

 

But I suspect Dave Lowery had next to no input into the 'Your' name change, but the owners looking for something new.

 

I always thought Your Model Railway was a decent magazine.

 

How many of the others were doing builds of DJH Britannias over several issues or articles on etched brass kits. It also still had decent drawings.

 

Even one towards the end has more interesting stuff than most modern magazines.

 

Mail Train - Readers' letters
Booking Office - New books and videos reviewed
Exhibitions - Forthcoming dates and venues for your diary
News of new products on release
Calculating Layouts - Vital statistics for building a layout
1-3 Bluebell Row - Build your own model 'Dougal'
NER Road Tranship Vans - Using card sides to build 2mm scale wagons
Roaming Forties - Prototype notes and the Graham Parish model
The Salehurst 'Bumper' - A 'push me-pull you' from the haunted fish tank
Zero 1 - Putting the chips into a number of Dapols
Camera and Comment - More snaps from the old 'Box Brownie'
'00' Compensation Pt. 1 - You-don't have to be a scale modeller to benefit from good running
Kalenborn - An ideal Continental prototype
Caledonian 4-6-2 tank - A North of the Border exercise in scratchbuilding
The Dartmouth and Torbay Railway - A bit of Devon from 'down under'
Blacksanton - All different types of structures
From the Footplate

 

My bold on articles that would appeal to me on first glance. I can't remember what The Salehurst Bumper was about!

 

https://www.magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/model-railways-magazine-february-1987-issue.html

 

 

Jason

[VIA185]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I always thought Your Model Railway was a decent magazine.

 

How many of the others were doing builds of DJH Britannias over several issues or articles on etched brass kits. It also still had decent drawings.

 

Jason

Can't recall building a DJH 'Britannia' but MRC was certainly building kits ( I built Roye Link's etched brass L&B 2-6-2T) and publishing drawings right up to closure in the mid 1980s. Some would tell you that's why it closed! In those days there was an unwritten 'pecking order' - Railway Modeller entry level, Model Railway Constructor 'middle of the road,' Model Railway News 'top-end modellers who could solder and scratch-build (leaning towards model engineering). It was only when that 'discreet demarcation' began to be eroded that things went wrong for two of the three titles. (CJL)

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, VIA185 said:

Can't recall building a DJH 'Britannia' but MRC was certainly building kits ( I built Roye Link's etched brass L&B 2-6-2T) and publishing drawings right up to closure in the mid 1980s. Some would tell you that's why it closed! In those days there was an unwritten 'pecking order' - Railway Modeller entry level, Model Railway Constructor 'middle of the road,' Model Railway News 'top-end modellers who could solder and scratch-build (leaning towards model engineering). It was only when that 'discreet demarcation' began to be eroded that things went wrong for two of the three titles. (CJL)

Chris, what effect (if any) did the appearance of MRJ have on that unofficial hierarchy in your opinion?

[kevinlms]

14 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I always thought Your Model Railway was a decent magazine.

 

 

 

https://www.magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/model-railways-magazine-february-1987-issue.html

 

 

Jason

The problem was the early issues of YMR, where they had about 16 pages of a list of RTR and kits etc in 4mm and later N Gauge.

Nothing wrong with such a list, except they repeated it in each issue for a few months. By Feb 1987, a lot had returned to a 'normal' magazine.

[BachelorBoy]

On 13/01/2024 at 07:41, RichardT said:

https://www.ianallan.com/

 

Still going. We all think of it as a railway publishing company but that’s the part of the business they decided to let go in favour of their other - presumably more profitable - lines. Just goes to show that our perspective isn’t always the full picture!

 

RichardT

A bit like Beyer, Peacock. The railway enthusiasts who wrote the Wikipedia page assumed that the company disappeared after it stopped making locomotives. In fact, it carried on making garage doors in Somerset for another decade or two, and was bought by a Saudi Arabian company

 

 

 

[Legend]

Dave Lowery wrote an excellent book “Build a Model Railway” , I think dates from 1990.While I was into model railways since 1965 it was this book that inspired me to build a layout in the loft in our new house . It’s still there and used (when it’s warm enough- it’s freezing at the moment !) 30 odd years later. So my thanks to him! 
 

I think the book just struck a chord . It was an interesting layout in the book with a terminal station and some really good but simple scenery . Very inspirational . In fact some of the track layout still exists on my current layout .My woodworking building the baseboard didn’t come from school . My teacher - who I think was just biding time to his pension , gave up on us, so Dave succeeded where others failed ! 
 

Railway Modeller , perhaps because it’s been around so long, is often perceived as stuffy and old fashioned . In fact I kind of like that , likening it to a pair of comfy old slippers . However it has updated itself , the latest edition being a case in point with some superb  layouts in there , but it also has comment pieces , this time Simon Kohler  and “talking Points” , so it has managed to update itself without alienating its long term clientele . A neat trick really ! 

[RichardT]

7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

22 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

The problem was the early issues of YMR, where they had about 16 pages of a list of RTR and kits etc in 4mm and later N Gauge.

Yes, that was the thing. After CJF retired there were a few issues containing some veiled criticisms of his editorship (not a good look) and then the YMR rebrand. I stuck with it to the Dec issue and then they’d lost me. I did pick up a copy a couple of years later (after they’d reverted to the MR brand) and it was much improved, but by then I had a big mortgage and season ticket costs so spending anything more on model railways was out.

 

Richard

[RichardT]

6 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

A bit like Beyer, Peacock. The railway enthusiasts who wrote the Wikipedia page assumed that the company disappeared after it stopped making locomotives. In fact, it carried on making garage doors in Somerset for another decade or two, and was bought by a Saudi Arabian company

 

 

 

And see also the Derwent Valley Light Railway - now Derwent Holdings (FTSE 250 property company).

 

RT 

[Steamport Southport]

8 hours ago, kevinlms said:

The problem was the early issues of YMR, where they had about 16 pages of a list of RTR and kits etc in 4mm and later N Gauge.

Nothing wrong with such a list, except they repeated it in each issue for a few months. By Feb 1987, a lot had returned to a 'normal' magazine.

 

That was a good thing IMO.

 

How many times do we see people asking where can I get a XYZ? Well there's your answer!

 

 

Jason

[VIA185]

15 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Chris, what effect (if any) did the appearance of MRJ have on that unofficial hierarchy in your opinion?

This is getting really off the topic of Steve's retirement - sorry Steve! I'm talking last century, here, not 'now'. I think the gist of the whole history of model railway magazines then, was that it never really mattered what I, or any of the other editors thought. Sales figures were the only thing that 'talked' and sales figures were inextricably linked to advertisement revenue. The more copies that were sold, the higher the advertisement rates could be and the greater the ad revenue. MRJ was such small fry that it wasn't a member of ABC, had no audited circulation figure for comparison purposes and so didn't really have any effect - I guess it simply wasn't 'mainstream' enough to catch the attention of those who held the purse strings. In terms of its positioning in the market I think it added a fourth level - which was more aspirational than the 'big 3' but being aspirational is a great incentive for some modellers and a big turn-off for others (the folk who would say "it's great, but I could never do that") I always wanted to show people that they could do it - if I can, anyone can. With the Constructor I tended to be so absorbed in what I was doing (and the other work I had to do for IAL) that I seldom took much notice of what the competitors were doing. Perhaps that was my mistake. Eventually it was that 'other work' (production managing a raft of magazine titles with inexperienced editors) which led IAL to pull the plug on MRC and give me a production editor role across all the magazines -but that's another story. (CJL)

Edited January 16 by VIA185

[kevinlms]

17 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

That was a good thing IMO.

 

How many times do we see people asking where can I get a XYZ? Well there's your answer!

 

 

Jason

Catalogues, supplements or the modern day websites are good for that, but a big chunk of each issue? OK for people who buy odd issues, but those who buy regularly it's just repetition.

Some people object to an annual index being incorporated.

[Steamport Southport]

18 hours ago, VIA185 said:

Can't recall building a DJH 'Britannia' but MRC was certainly building kits ( I built Roye Link's etched brass L&B 2-6-2T) and publishing drawings right up to closure in the mid 1980s. Some would tell you that's why it closed! In those days there was an unwritten 'pecking order' - Railway Modeller entry level, Model Railway Constructor 'middle of the road,' Model Railway News 'top-end modellers who could solder and scratch-build (leaning towards model engineering). It was only when that 'discreet demarcation' began to be eroded that things went wrong for two of the three titles. (CJL)

 

It was more the style of article I liked. It wasn't one of the usual kit building articles of the time which was more "Use you normal wheels, motor and gears" without any explanation on how to actually do that, it was going through every stage.

 

Building a loco kit from start to finish with tutorials on things like soldering and painting.

 

Funnily enough similar to the articles that George did with the HR Jones Goods and you did with the GEM Cambrian Tank. I hadn't seen anything like that before and was the first time I thought "I could do that".

 

At the time I was buying nearly all the magazines. I missed some and have been picking up missing ones since, but I've probably got a full set of most titles from about 1970 with Railway Modeller now going back well into the 1960s.

 

I'm afraid modern magazines don't quite appeal as much. Too much RTR and layouts for my tastes.

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

3 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Catalogues, supplements or the modern day websites are good for that, but a big chunk of each issue? OK for people who buy odd issues, but those who buy regularly it's just repetition.

Some people object to an annual index being incorporated.

 

I still refer to the kit section often which was only printed once. So no idea where this idea it was in every issue comes from. They also did an N Gauge one. Again just once.

 

I think you might have a false memory of it being in every issue as it was only in the first few and tied in with the layout build for beginners. Seems an odd thing to totally dismiss a magazine for. 

 

But how many pages did it really take up? Not much as there was hardly anything available!

 

 

 

Jason

[The Stationmaster]

I liked MRC and have still got my stash of them - which is relatively complete from c.1963 to the the end.

[swtrains]

Topic deviation alert!

 

Chris, one for you, if possible.

 

Back in the 60's, IA moved into their brand new Terminus House in Shepperton. I'm not sure if you were on board at that time or not.... However, there was a rumour at the time that IA was considering an attraction similar to that offered by Peco at their offices - some kind of model railway display I guess. In the end, he went for a travel agency - but did at least have a pullman car at the back on the former platform 2.

 

I can't say where this rumour started, or if it was mere schoolboy gossip. Possibly it was, after reading your comments re the lack of interest IA had in model railways, coupled  to the fact that Shepperton is hardly a tourist destination!

 

Have you any memories of this time that you could share?

 

Sorry for swerving the topic!

[DLT]

On 16/01/2024 at 05:30, kevinlms said:

The problem was the early issues of YMR, where they had about 16 pages of a list of RTR and kits etc in 4mm and later N Gauge.

Nothing wrong with such a list, except they repeated it in each issue for a few months. By Feb 1987, a lot had returned to a 'normal' magazine.

One wag in our group christened it "Which HST"