Accentuate the negative - who's trying to kill the hobby?

[MartinRS]

5 hours ago, LBRJ said:

That work is actually just a badly drawn Spaniel.

 

Check it out and you will never unsee it now ;)

It's about to be eaten by a giant Spoonbill.

[BachelorBoy]

9 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Sometimes there is a conflict between keeping the trains running and talking to to visitors. After several years of exhibiting with ready access for viewers to the operators running the fiddle yards we found it better to put up full height surrounds. The reason was simply that the operators couldn't concentrate on keeping to the schedule we needed to follow to avoid confusion and keep the trains running. 

 

Take a tip from bunraku puppet theatre in Japan. Dress the layout operators in black. 

 

 

[Morgenergy]

Something I realised earlier is certainly leaving a horrid mark on the hobby that stinks to high heaven: brand loyalty. blind brand loyalty.

 

With this hobby being such a web of smaller interests and preferences, can we really tolerate punters being so militant towards each other in the name of *insert toy train maker here*?

 

A visit to a Facebook group or similar will find you downed with accusations of lying if you even dare share your rightful disdain towards quality or customer service of a particular manufacturer, the reports of quality issues, breakages or lackluster customer service being viewed as trends not worthy of notice. I became entangled in this sort of attitude earlier and thought it shocking that genuine complaints and a gag lead to abuse within minutes, with passive aggressive suggestions and remarks received from more influential users from publishing and manufacturing. It wasn't a good look, only making me feel terribly uneasy even if the whole saga was initially hilarious.
 

It hurts the hobby at least in the retail part, very well playing into the changing of buying habits from retailer to direct. Not to mention, the perhaps jaded admiration means that issues some companies would get crucified for (Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan are still blasted about mazak rot on 20+YO locos) end up dismissed and forgotten due to favoritism.

 

A growing demographic that no longer wishes to hold our suppliers accountable should be discussed more and discouraged. Fixing brand new items has become commonplace with returning seen as too much hassle, even when pre-paid postage slips are supplied. I may be exaggerating, but considering the risks? I dunno about yourselves, I find it terrifying.

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, Morgenergy said:

Something I realised earlier is certainly leaving a horrid mark on the hobby that stinks to high heaven: brand loyalty. blind brand loyalty.

 

With this hobby being such a web of smaller interests and preferences, can we really tolerate punters being so militant towards each other in the name of *insert toy train maker here*?

 

A visit to a Facebook group or similar will find you downed with accusations of lying if you even dare share your rightful disdain towards quality or customer service of a particular manufacturer, the reports of quality issues, breakages or lackluster customer service being viewed as trends not worthy of notice. I became entangled in this sort of attitude earlier and thought it shocking that genuine complaints and a gag lead to abuse within minutes, with passive aggressive suggestions and remarks received from more influential users from publishing and manufacturing. It wasn't a good look, only making me feel terribly uneasy even if the whole saga was initially hilarious.
 

It hurts the hobby at least in the retail part, very well playing into the changing of buying habits from retailer to direct. Not to mention, the perhaps jaded admiration means that issues some companies would get crucified for (Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan are still blasted about mazak rot on 20+YO locos) end up dismissed and forgotten due to favoritism.

 

A growing demographic that no longer wishes to hold our suppliers accountable should be discussed more and discouraged. Fixing brand new items has become commonplace with returning seen as too much hassle, even when pre-paid postage slips are supplied. I may be exaggerating, but considering the risks? I dunno about yourselves, I find it terrifying.

Blimey, I think you need to put it in perspective , I don’t find anything terrifying about toy trains - they are toy trains .

[TEAMYAKIMA]

1 hour ago, Morgenergy said:

A visit to a Facebook group or similar will find you downed with accusations of lying if you even dare share your rightful disdain towards quality or customer service of a particular manufacturer, the reports of quality issues, breakages or lackluster customer service being viewed as trends not worthy of notice. I became entangled in this sort of attitude earlier and thought it shocking that genuine complaints and a gag lead to abuse within minutes, with passive aggressive suggestions and remarks received from more influential users from publishing and manufacturing. It wasn't a good look, only making me feel terribly uneasy even if the whole saga was initially hilarious.

 

 

I will admit that I am not aware of such extreme behaviour and I think that it would help your case if you would provide links to the kind of thing you're referring to. 

[BlackFivesMatter]

4 hours ago, Morgenergy said:

Something I realised earlier is certainly leaving a horrid mark on the hobby that stinks to high heaven: brand loyalty. blind brand loyalty.

 

With this hobby being such a web of smaller interests and preferences, can we really tolerate punters being so militant towards each other in the name of *insert toy train maker here*?

 

A visit to a Facebook group or similar will find you downed with accusations of lying if you even dare share your rightful disdain towards quality or customer service of a particular manufacturer, the reports of quality issues, breakages or lackluster customer service being viewed as trends not worthy of notice. I became entangled in this sort of attitude earlier and thought it shocking that genuine complaints and a gag lead to abuse within minutes, with passive aggressive suggestions and remarks received from more influential users from publishing and manufacturing. It wasn't a good look, only making me feel terribly uneasy even if the whole saga was initially hilarious.
 

It hurts the hobby at least in the retail part, very well playing into the changing of buying habits from retailer to direct. Not to mention, the perhaps jaded admiration means that issues some companies would get crucified for (Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan are still blasted about mazak rot on 20+YO locos) end up dismissed and forgotten due to favoritism.

 

A growing demographic that no longer wishes to hold our suppliers accountable should be discussed more and discouraged. Fixing brand new items has become commonplace with returning seen as too much hassle, even when pre-paid postage slips are supplied. I may be exaggerating, but considering the risks? I dunno about yourselves, I find it terrifying.

 I think the issue with aggressive defenders/accusers to which you mention is a social media issue, more than a model issue. There are always reviews in the main modelling magazines and although "options may differ" I don't think all reviewers can be "bought". 

As regards fixing defects in models, it depends. A faulty item is a faulty item, whether a washing machine, model loco or anything else.  I cannot think anyone would accept poor quality without redress. However if you buy a limited run and it is faulty, then if there is not a replacement you would only get a refund. If you feel you can make good the defect to keep the limited edition model then fair enough. 

 

Going back to the original post, I recall an item on radio four - the country which has the most people who hate the UK is .... the UK". It applies to model railways. We can be the hobbies worst ambassadors. 

[rob D2]

The topic to which he relates is a FB thread on Accurascales new life warranty .

Theres a few strong opinions but nothing making me fear for my safety TBH !

[jjb1970]

On the whole I find the model railway world to be well behaved and polite compared to some other hobbies (audio enthusiasts can be full on bonkers and swallow all sorts of magic pixie dust stuff), we have our moments but it's about the most genteel of the hobbies I have an interest in. Similarly with magazines, I really find model railway magazines to be genuine and serving the hobby (and their bottom line of course, but if it is just about money those writing for model magazines could make more for less effort elsewhere I'm wure). Compared to some other hobbies I find model magazines (not just rail, it's true for scale models in general) to be very good. Now audio magazines...veils being lifted, night and day differences, wives hearing differences from the other room but which are so subtle you can only discern them is using $50,000 speakers and $1000/m speaker wire etc etc, they can be great entertainment but for all the wrong reasons.

[PMP]

5 hours ago, Morgenergy said:

Something I realised earlier is certainly leaving a horrid mark on the hobby that stinks to high heaven: brand loyalty. blind brand loyalty.

 

(snip)

 

I may be exaggerating, but considering the risks? I dunno about yourselves, I find it terrifying.

Brand loyalty foamers have always been there, and always will be there. It was the same with Hornby/Wrenn/Airfix/Mainline and Lima back in the 80’s. It goes on now in plastic kit modelling, and in any ‘interest’ eg performance cars. With railways it was just done at clubs or exhibitions, and from punters in shops. Social Meejah in all its forms has just made it easier for them to have a voice. 
 

And yep, you are exaggerating the risks   🙂

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I don't really consider brand loyalty when making my (now limited) purchases. If it's a good model it's a good model, irrespective of brand.

[Morgenergy]

The incident I saw was on Facebook (I know, what was I thinking?) in the Modelling BR Blue group; unsure if a public link can be shared. Frankly I’d recommend you save the sanity which I’ve already clearly parted with. 
 

I really must stop engaging with it all… again, having been dragged back into social media somehow. Is it what’s called doomscrolling these days? It’s the reason this thread is even here in the first place. Must remember to touch more grass. 

 

14 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

On the whole I find the model railway world to be well behaved and polite compared to some other hobbies 

In the real world (that many find too haunting..) I’ll absolutely agree with this and it’s my belief that 99% of railway folks you’ll meet are harmless, with a good chunk of those offering a lovely spirit and being quite happy to chat or support you. 
 

As mentioned in one of my previous replies, it should be celebrated how this hobby can really bring people together. We’re all trying to achieve our own goals and in my experience, folks will help with that even if it’s the polar opposite of what they’re into, if they happen to realise they have knowledge or an item useful to your musings. It’s not something I find so readily available in other hobbies, where a sort of low-key competitive nature seems to prevail.

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, Morgenergy said:

The incident I saw was on Facebook (I know, what was I thinking?) in the Modelling BR Blue group; unsure if a public link can be shared. Frankly I’d recommend you save the sanity which I’ve already clearly parted with. 

 

For some context for readers here I did see the posting you had made there which was one of the first posts after a member had posted the news about Accurascale's lifetime warranty. One of the reasons I largely avoid Facebook is because of immediate combative responses like that. Your response when challenged whether you had personal experience was lengthy but, too be fair, qualified. So, you had your say there but it's, in this case, unfair to blame that medium, or the group, for the content.

[Oldddudders]

As noted, we live in the era of the keyboard-warrior-fanboy. They do appear here, too, with otherwise apparently-rational members saying, e.g. "I will never buy Hornby again", as if this will change anything. They know their priorities in life. 

 

But it is indeed widespread outside our hobby. Just try suggesting your camera's autofocus is better than Sony's and you will receive withering fire from all the Sony fanboys. Yawn....

[Dunsignalling]

54 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

I don't really consider brand loyalty when making my (now limited) purchases. If it's a good model it's a good model, irrespective of brand.

And, of course, it has to be a model of something that fits my interests. My way of dealing with rising prices has been to (almost) eliminate spending on "nice to have" items that don't. 

 

Some brands have lately been catering for me better than others, while others that I've spent freely with in the past, have produced/announced little that appeals.

 

My decisions go with the contents, not the colour of the box, but "brand disloyalty" may be too strong a term. The preferences of others should, in any case, balance out my likes and dislikes....  

 

John

[Not Jeremy]

I do buy stuff, but I like making stuff - reading a lot of posts here makes me think I am in a completely different hobby.

 

Model railway-wise it is the ideas that interest me, not so much how it was done, and certainly not whose products were used.

 

And also, not necessarily in OO, or P4, or N or anything else.

 

Are the (much) better quality, higher specs and complication of current RTR models possibly having some sort of logic defying negative impact on everything? 

 

But, when all said and done, I still get a huge kick from the hobby, and I wouldn't want to be without it.

 

Money - well cardboard is still available, paper, pencils, woodwork glue, and most of all our imaginations.

 

I don't believe imagination is available in boxes, of whatever colour.

 

The hobby is dead, long live the hobby!

[rob D2]

It’s interesting that in that case people are being more aggressive on FB as they appear to be using  real names and profiles . It may be due to the fact a lot of pages are not really moderated as such , set up and left …whereas on here we use user names but the long suffering mods are normally keeping a close eye . I much prefer it this way .

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I really am me...

 

[Gilbert]

Just now, Peter Kazmierczak said:

I really am me...

 

Cue Spartacus jokes....

[jjb1970]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

But it is indeed widespread outside our hobby. Just try suggesting your camera's autofocus is better than Sony's and you will receive withering fire from all the Sony fanboys. Yawn....

 

I just bought a new camera after several months of thinking about which to go for. Looking at camera message boards and comment sections was amusing for all the wrong reasons (though nothing like as hilarious as some audio sites). As well as brand fans there are plenty of voices which go apoplectic if you suggest crop sensors have their place, question why you need 60MP or more, or assure people that no lens with an aperture above F2.8 is worth having (and obviously F2.8 is a poverty spec for those who can't afford the F0.95 version) etc etc. I bought a micro four thirds camera as for my own needs (a lot of travel, and long reach photography) the format is ideal, I am not saying it's right for everyone and that's fine as we all have different needs.

[MartinRS]

42 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Cue Spartacus jokes....

A taxi driver walks into a pub after last orders and shouts, 'Taxi for Spartacus!'

 

 

 

 

 

Well you did ask for a Spartacus joke.

[Morgenergy]

4 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

I do buy stuff, but I like making stuff - reading a lot of posts here makes me think I am in a completely different hobby.

 

Model railway-wise it is the ideas that interest me, not so much how it was done, and certainly not whose products were used.

 

And also, not necessarily in OO, or P4, or N or anything else.

 

Are the (much) better quality, higher specs and complication of current RTR models possibly having some sort of logic defying negative impact on everything? 

 

But, when all said and done, I still get a huge kick from the hobby, and I wouldn't want to be without it.

 

Money - well cardboard is still available, paper, pencils, woodwork glue, and most of all our imaginations.

 

I don't believe imagination is available in boxes, of whatever colour.

 

The hobby is dead, long live the hobby!

I do find myself - admittedly - increasingly biased towards and against certain things owing to my growing preference to doing it myself. Got called pretentious for it!
 

There’s a reliance on RTR product that I find difficult to comprehend… and that’s fine. I would think that way because I’m the type to bodge what it is I want. Horses for courses and that. 

53 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

One of the reasons I largely avoid Facebook is because of immediate combative responses like that. 

I’m in the same boat to be fair, albeit more due to reach and dodgy ads. I don’t think the networking is worth it combined with the questionable user base. 

 

I was hoping my response be seen as a rather low-blow gag but the gloves came right off, not just against me either. 😳 I can’t say it was undeserved.

[Not Jeremy]

Quote

I do find myself - admittedly - increasingly biased towards and against certain things owing to my growing preference to doing it myself. Got called pretentious for it!

 

I'm not sure if that was on RMweb, but one does come across similar type comments from folk.

 

Such comments strike me as being some sort of strange model railway version of inverted snobbery.

 

The really skilled amongst us, apart from producing lovely models, are also some of the nicest people you could hope to meet, I think. In my own bailiwick names such as Laurie Griffin, John Greenwood and Gordon Gravett immediately come to mind. There are many more, many of whose names will be unknown to most of us.

 

I am a bodger for sure, but I do try and get things looking right and running properly, and I also think that with practice one does make progress. I love creating new shapes and scenes, my progress is excruciatingly slow and I have barked up many wrong trees, but when something works out then I get a feeling of pleasure and satisfaction. If others appreciate what one has done, then that is nice too.

 

It is this plus the friendships and discovery of other people's creations that give me most pleasure in the hobby, I think.

 

Right, back down to the shed to make some more scrap....

 

Simon

Edited January 24 by Not Jeremy
As us

[JohnR]

I think its all to easy to fall into the trap that if a few people have a problem, then all those models get tarnished with the same problem. Elsewhere, Accurascale said they had sold 18,000 class 37s. In this day and age, thats a lot. Even a low fault rate with them can mean many unhappy customers, all too eager to vent their (understandable) frustration where they can.

 

The reality might be that they are much more reliable than a manufacturer who might only have sold 1,000 or 2,000 models, but has fewer complaints.

 

 

 

[Coldgunner]

There was a lot of complaints with the W1 when it came out, either damage in transit (I was affected by this) or poor running, but did the majority receive theirs and quietly enjoy the models without posting it online? The only people posting would be the ones with issues.

 

After getting my broken one sent back and refunded due to lack of stock, I bought the same model a few months later and its been spot on.

[MJI]

I saw earlier car garages shutting done, I can do better than that, I have owned 8 cars.

 

6 from companies no longer around, or a name only on other cars.

 

Rootes gone, GM Europe gone

 

For model railways, my PC is a huge model shop

Edited January 25 by MJI