2-HAP on Central Division

[Nearholmer]

I’m suffering memory weakness, and would be grateful

for a reminder or two …….

 

Early to mid 1970s, what services were HAPs used for on the Central Division?

 

I think I recall Brighton (Slow) & Reigate, dividing at Redhill, but did they also get used on the “coastway” (don’t think they were called that then) and Seaford services? I recall those going BIL>COR>??HAP??>VEP, but maybe I imagined the HAP phase.

 

No, I didn’t imagine it: 

 

 

Anything else?

Edited February 11 by Nearholmer

[RFS]

Here's a picture of unit 6050 at Seaford on a Brighton service, so I assume they did get on the Coastway service.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p386613279/e57e3bc4e

 

 

[C126]

Yep, I remember them on Brighton-Seafords in the mid-1980's, when they were '4-CAPs' 'Coastway HAPs), 2x2-HAPs coupled together, renumbered in the 3xxx series, and their inner cabs painted blue.  But I can not remember if they worked westwards from Brighton on 'Slow's.

 

[PatC]

I'm sure I remember them running to Portsmouth. I went to school at Southbourne ( between Havant and Chichester) in the late 70s/early 80s and I remember seeing them on the coast line there. 

[Nearholmer]

But, I’m thinking of earlier, after the COR. My memory is telling me that they ran as HAP-ordinaire, pre-CAP.

Edited February 11 by Nearholmer

[C126]

Just found a picture by John Scrace in the Middleton Press Brighton to Worthing  (pub. 1983) of a 2-HAP:

 

"[pl.] 57.  A 2HAP unit [in plain blue plus another behind in blue/grey] leads a semi-fast train from Portsmouth into the up platform [of Portslade].  The up side buildings have been leased out, so that passengers now have to wait in an open shelter.  This view was taken from the footbridge in March 1982."

 

Other photos in my books checked thus far show them all on the Eastern Div.  But hope this is not too late (early 1980's) for you.

[bécasse]

2-HAPs of both varieties were used on East and West Coastway services in the 1970s following on from the use of 2-BILs and 4-CORs. The Bulleid variety disappeared en mass with the timetable change of April 1976 (to become 2-SAPs in the CD suburban area) but the BR variety continued throughout the rest of the decade. I can't remember precisely when the 4-CAPs appeared (which of course were just 2x2-HAPs semi-permanently coupled) but Blood and Custard will have the dates.

 

I would suggest that 4-VEPs and 4-CIGs were seen occasionally on Coastway services throughout the decade - and quite exceptionally 4-EPBs.

[Flood]

From 1974 to 1980 all the "1951" BR HAPs became SAPs as well, along with a few Batch 1 "1957" HAPs in 1977. My 1977 Station Summaries book has VEPs on the Coastway services during the day with VEP-HAP combinations during peak.

 

I say "all" as two "1951" sets were left as HAPs and kept at Wimbledon to test automatic couplers (as per Railway Observer).

 

Don't forget folks that the OP said early to mid 1970s. As already mentioned, from 1980 to 1984 the HAPs (CAPs) were in near total control on Coastway services.

Edited February 11 by Flood
Changed conversion date to SAP.

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, bécasse said:

and quite exceptionally 4-EPBs.

EPBs ventured as far as Eastbourne, and possibly even Hastings, in the wee small hours as newspaper and parcel trains, IIRC.

 

From this conversation, I’m thinking that pure, unmolested, 2-HAP probably provided the coastway services from about 1971-1976, but we’ll see what else turns up.

[Flood]

Having checked every Railway Observer from January 1970 to January 1973 there were no reallocations to the Southern EMU fleet (one DEMU from Eastleigh to St Leonards) only new build and withdrawals.

 

The allocations stated in the January 1973 edition coincide with depot stickers being added to the front of the units:

Brighton 5601-36, 6001/2,

Ramsgate 6012-99, 6100-73

Wimbledon 6003-11

 

So from May 1972 the SR design HAPs were used on the Coastway services until they were converted to SAPs in 1976 (again, they were SAPs from 1969 to 1970).

 

So @Nearholmer to you use notation the services went BIL>COR>SR HAP>VEP> BR HAP>up to 1984.

Edited February 11 by Flood

[Oldddudders]

50 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

EPBs ventured as far as Eastbourne

In the late '60s, early '70s, 5357 and 5358, maybe others, were modified to 90-mph gearing, and one or other was booked (in the CWN)  on the 6.47 Eastbourne to London Bridge, 17.51 Vic - Eastbourne. Presumably those likely to need a potty stop en route London chose another part of the train. 

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, bécasse said:

... and quite exceptionally 4-EPBs

... ran other services on the Brighton Lines !

 

Redhill : 19/6/88

[brushman47544]

2-HAPs worked the Arundel - Littlehampton - Bognor shuttles, though I can’t off hand recall when they were withdrawn.

[brushman47544]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

 

Anything else?

That will be 6022+6023. At that time they could only work with each other.

[keefer]

IIRC they were used to test the prototype 'Tightlock' buckeye+drum coupling, fitted to PEP-derived (and later) units.

[Right Away]

19 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

2-HAPs worked the Arundel - Littlehampton - Bognor shuttles, though I can’t off hand recall when they were withdrawn.

 

Off topic, sorry, but mention of the Littlehampton “shuttles”; a photo of my father changing ends at Ford in 1968.

 

[keefer]

9 hours ago, keefer said:

IIRC they were used to test the prototype 'Tightlock' buckeye+drum coupling, fitted to PEP-derived (and later) units.

Having looked them up, they were used for coupler testing between June '73 and September '78 with the Tightlocks being fitted to the cab end of the DTC.

They remained as HAP as they were not in normal service. After overhaul at Eastleigh they returned to normal traffic in January (6023) and February (6022) 1979.

Comprehensive details of the HAP/SAP/CAP at:

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/br-2hap.html

 

Edited February 12 by keefer

[Right Away]

Here’s a couple of photos of “pre CAP” HAPs which I took at Fishersgate and Portslade in 1981