Peterborough North

[great northern]

What with all the excitement of trying out those terraces, I forgot that we also did some more work down the South end, or rather Peter did, and I "supervised". First up is an incomplete job, which Peter is tackilng in stages, as it is very time consuming indeed, very fiddly, and more than a little boring.

All those little bits of microstrip on the top of the canopy.....

General tidying up of the loading dock was the next job. Top surface applied, but more work to be done on that in due course, correct fencing made and fitted, and some buffers at the end of the dock roads.

Only a little new on the forecourt itself, just some street lamps so that people aren't wandering about in the dark, but this area doesn't get as much exposure as it deserves, so here is another shot.

I did some more, but got shaky hand syndrome, so not worth showing. Can I be bothered to go and do them again?

[The Stationmaster]

It certainly is. I've wondered for ages why they would do that. It means that anything put in there had to be drawn out towards the station, and shunted onto one of the lines that passed under Spital Bridge into the yards. Had that buffer been omitted, the stock could have been shunted straight out under the bridge. Any ideas anybody?

I wonder if it was a case of 'this is my siding and you're not going to stick your vehicles in it' or possibly one of the vehicles was in use as office space and nobody wanted a rough shunt up against it (not that the double sided stop block would have done much to stop one by the look of it).

[Mallard60022]

Love that openness of the forecourt in the last pic. You have really captured the light as well; great photography.

Very in between services in the 60s. Plus, of course, there were not as many motors around then. 

P

[stewartingram]

You missed my Grandad's motor off there though! We used to park up where that blue/cream Ford is, just so I could do some trainspotting while Gran did the retail therapy. A green Austin 7 Ruby, CPW835 btw, available from Springside still I believe (I have one).

 

Stewart

 

ps t'other side of the road was the BTP office, in later years at least. I was working as a radio engineer for Cambs Police and sometimes had to call in during the 80s. I belive it suffered from arson later?

[manna]

G'Day Gents

 

Looking at your lovely new building and the weathering and the proximity to the double sided buffer stop, I would'nt mind betting that before the bufferstop was put in place, something was derailed and hit the building (probably using the siding as a short cut) the lines of the brickwork suggest that a Wagon derailed, scrapped along the wall until it reached the window, the double sided bufferstop was then put in place to stop it happening again.

 

manna

[Richard E]

ps t'other side of the road was the BTP office, in later years at least. I was working as a radio engineer for Cambs Police and sometimes had to call in during the 80s. I belive it suffered from arson later?

Stewart

 

The BTP offices used to be the Stationmasters house. Yes, suffered from arson and was going to be demolished making way for half a dozen new parking places but that, thankfully, didn't happen and it has been restored rather well.

[LNER4479]

Love the station forecourt views GN, very atmospheric. I think it's the understated-ness (application to OED pending!) and the feeling of space that is so convincing - less is more. And you're right, it doesn't get enough exposure.

[great northern]

No car today, gone for its MOT - passed.   Morning spent tidying up, then when something approaching daylight appeared I decided to have another go at the photos I messed up yesterday. And here are the results. Yet another coal train, but a different type of motive power.

The intention was to see how the North end will look with the new buildings and backscene, and I have to say I'm rather pleased.   The strong light tends to bleach out the houses in the background, which while unintentional certainly helps.

OK even without any houses from this angle.

The whole area has filled in very nicely. We can and will do some more tweaking, but overall- result.   It even looks quite like the real thing, and when I find a photo I'm able to reproduce I'll try to prove it.

 

Incidentally, Andy Y and I had a discussion yesterday as to likely colour schemes for those terraces. There was no doubt in my mind at all, I was there wasn't I? All dingy muted colours I said, black brown or grey, nothing bright. This morning while moving things around I found a colour photo, which i can't put on - no permission. Suffice to say that the first two houses in view were painted red and bright orange respectively.

[tetleys]

Gilbert,

 

Love Peter's latest masterpiece of the District Engineer's buildings and am especially impressed with the inclusion of the roof mounted solar panels to lower your carbon footprint, very P.C. I didn't realise British Railways had fitted them back in 1958 but the camera never lies.

 

I agree with , I think Jeffp that 12' might be too high for a boundary wall and 10 or even 8' would be more likely when paying the building costs especially if The Great Northern Directors had a say. The low relief terrace houses are again a good idea and the misty tones give a better impression of distance.

 

You can always send me a PM on questions etc my lap top does not always receive all my emails and I'm away from the steam driven but more reliable tower computer at home.

 

Dave

[stewartingram]

How about comparing with this one?

 

 

Stewart

[great northern]

Ooh, look at all those nice new windows, and the trendy modern lean to "conservatory". I'm willing to bet the whole lot was demolished shortly after that expenditure was authorised.

[Donington Road]

I think you are right Jeff. It needed to be high enough to deter intruders, as photos show a lot of nice building materials, sleepers etc lying about around the depot, and there were just as many light fingered oiks about then as there are now, but 12 ft is probably excessive. It needs to be scaled down in the same way as the terraces anyway, so when I make the final version I shall do that.

Looks like part of your wall is still there: http://goo.gl/maps/yd8i2

[Andy Y]

Looks like part of your wall is still there: http://goo.gl/maps/yd8i2

 

Nice work Mick,

 

I've done a quick brick count and make it 9' without the capping course.

 

[artizen]

I went for a drive on google earth and got outside the carpark. There is a large artic parked against the wall and it looks even lower from that angle. The driver is almost as tall which implies that the wall on the outside was only 1.8 metres or so high. Quite a lot of old railway infrastructure still there by the look of it as well (if you turn left at the first intersection from the above link).

[Mallard60022]

That is very clever Artizen. Quite an interesting little tour.

P

[great northern]

I went for a drive on google earth and got outside the carpark. There is a large artic parked against the wall and it looks even lower from that angle. The driver is almost as tall which implies that the wall on the outside was only 1.8 metres or so high. Quite a lot of old railway infrastructure still there by the look of it as well (if you turn left at the first intersection from the above link).

I wish I knew how to do things like that. Those buildings are indeed part of the old District Engineers set up, and I did consider modelling them - even got Tim to photograph them from the train when he last came up here. Then I worked out that they are actually well off scene so far as my model is concerned, so that idea has had to be shelved. The height of the wall seems to vary depending on the angle from which it is being viewed, but I'm with Andy at about 9ft, partly because its purpose was clearly to keep people out, but also because there is that building with the corrugated iron roof to its right on the photo he posted above, and surely that would be of sufficient height to allow people actually to get into it.

[artizen]

This is the alternative view showing that the wall is higher from the inside by a substantial margin -https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=52.576611,-0.25099&spn=0.010588,0.033023&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.576562,-0.250603&panoid=7_qsJNIej1zSjVbDlH4a1A&cbp=12,133.78,,1,-3.79

 

 

Gilbert - to for a drive on google maps:

Double click on the little man on the map (indicates where the linked image was taken)

Pan left or right using the mouse (press down on the mouse as you move left or right)

You will see a flattened circle on the ground indicating that you can move to that point by clicking on the mouse

By "going for a drive" out to the intersection and turning left, you can see the old buildings from the road side quite clearly.

Might be useful for a closer look at the terrace houses (or what's left of them)

 

EDIT

OK the link is not accurate.

Once you have landed, pan left until you can see the tower behind the tree (next to what looks like a fire station).

Place the flattened circle at the end of the steel railing under the tower and go there.

Pan back to the right to see the wall and there should be a man walking along the footpath.

Place the circle directly over the man and go there.

You should now be able to see an end photo of the wall showing the height difference between inside and outside the yard.

(Bit like playing Myst really.)

Edited November 22, 2013 by artizen

[Richard E]

The 'building' with the corrugated roof is a cover for the Royal Mail letterboxes (disused now) that are let into the wall. Don't forget that this was the site of the main sorting office in Peterborough for a while until they re-located to Werrington. The concrete framed and steel clad building has, in the Google view, been demolished.

If it helps and Gilbert so wishes I can try to measure the wall at some point over the weekend in between taking pictures of 5043 making her way through Peterborough and Whittlesea.

Edit to add - if you go back out onto Mayors Walk with the Volunteer Fire Station in front of you (it is the back of the Fire Station that you can see) and turn left the buildings to your left are still complete and are not the outside face of the wall, you need to turn right to see that. The buildings that are there are in use as offices for the railway (still).

 

Oh, and the vast majority of the terraced houses (or what rubble is left from them) are now underneath a dual carriageway called Bourges Boulevard. There is one section of the old 'railway houses' (which I suspect are not those that Gilbert would be interested in) still in existence a little way south of Rhubarb Bridge at the top end of Bourges Boulevard. The area where they are is now a Conservation zone (http://www.peterborough.gov.uk/environment/conservation_areas/conservation_area_appraisals/great_northern_railway_cottage.aspx)

Edited November 22, 2013 by Richard E

[Coldgunner]

Another video I found on a trawl of Youtube which may be of interest...

 

 

As for the buildings, yes there are still many there, take a look at my album. The wall mentioned above is probably between 5.5 and 6 feet high, I stand next to it every day lol.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/coldgunner/7455219778/in/set-72157630314994662

Edited November 22, 2013 by Coldgunner

[Donington Road]

The 'building' with the corrugated roof is a cover for the Royal Mail letterboxes (disused now) that are let into the wall. Don't forget that this was the site of the main sorting office in Peterborough for a while until they re-located to Werrington. The concrete framed and steel clad building has, in the Google view, been demolished.

 

If it helps and Gilbert so wishes I can try to measure the wall at some point over the weekend in between taking pictures of 5043 making her way through Peterborough and Whittlesea.

 

Edit to add - if you go back out onto Mayors Walk with the Volunteer Fire Station in front of you (it is the back of the Fire Station that you can see) and turn left the buildings to your left are still complete and are not the outside face of the wall, you need to turn right to see that. The buildings that are there are in use as offices for the railway (still).

 

Oh, and the vast majority of the terraced houses (or what rubble is left from them) are now underneath a dual carriageway called Bourges Boulevard. There is one section of the old 'railway houses' (which I suspect are not those that Gilbert would be interested in) still in existence a little way south of Rhubarb Bridge at the top end of Bourges Boulevard. The area where they are is now a Conservation zone (http://www.peterborough.gov.uk/environment/conservation_areas/conservation_area_appraisals/great_northern_railway_cottage.aspx)

 

This photo shows Westwood Street and the infamous brick wall taken from Spital Bridge.

Station Pilot at Spital Junction, Peterborough North View eastward from Spital Bridge, 69593 is passing Spital Up Goods Yard.

[great northern]

Thanks again everyone. I think I now understand the geography better. Richard E confirms that as I suspected all of the houses down this end of Westwood Street were demolished to make way for Bourges Boulevard, so we will have to do the best we can from the few contemporary views I have found. The wall is higher on the inside, and that is the side we will be looking at.On the model, it needs to be at a height where only the top half of the houses can be seen, so that is the height I shall make it. Thanks to Richard for the offer to measure it, but apart from ending speculation I don't think it actually takes me further forward.

 

Coldgunner, I still have the photos you kindly took, and I would like to include the buildings which are still there, but unfortunately the boundary of the model doesn't stretch that far, so I have to work from archive photos once again.

 

Ian (Artizen), many thanks for showing me how to navigate Google maps. Now if we could just find one for 1958 that would be great. Do you think we could borrow the Tardis?  Probably not, it's a bit busy at the moment I believe.

[great northern]

This photo shows Westwood Street and the infamous brick wall taken from Spital Bridge.

Station Pilot at Spital Junction, Peterborough North View eastward from Spital Bridge, 69593 is passing Spital Up Goods Yard.

That is really interesting. I've not seen that photo before. It shows the view from the North side of Spital Bridge, doesn't it?  Do you have any more like that, or know where I can access them? It really would be very useful indeed.

[great northern]

Brilliant stuff folks, and a great help. How about a bit of model rolling stock by way of a change. Tony Wright visited today, and brought with him some of the new Hornby Railroad MK1's. Here are a few rather hurried shots of a couple of them posed in a train with some Bachmann ones for comparison. These will be available after discount for £15 each or so. There is obviously a fair bit that could and should be done to them, but as a base model at that price we both feel they are very good value for money, and really don't lose much in comparison with the Bachmann ones, which are very good in their own right,

 

One thing we noticed from the last two photos in particular is that they sit a bit lower than the Bachmann ones, so that correctly the top of the wheels cannot be seen.

 

I've also had in my possession something right at the other end of the scale, Golden Age Gresley SK's at about twenty times the cost. I'll post some photos of those shortly, but not tonight. It's a very interesting and thought provoking contrast I can tell you.

[Alister_G]

For railroad models they don't look bad, to my untutored eye. The glazing looks to be quite flush compared to older Hornby stuff.

[Donington Road]

That is really interesting. I've not seen that photo before. It shows the view from the North side of Spital Bridge, doesn't it?  Do you have any more like that, or know where I can access them? It really would be very useful indeed.

 

Yes, it is the North side.  The photo came from here: http://www.geolocation.ws/nearby/en?loc=52.578699,-0.252493

I used to walk along Westwood Street to work in the late sixties.  All I seem to remember was that the terrace houses were grubby, much the same colour as the railway buildings on the South side of Spital Bridge.  I fact the whole way from the station up to the Triangle at New England was quite dismal back then.  As has been metioned before the whole of Westwood Street to its junction with Westwood Brigde was demolished to make way for the dual carraigeway of Bourges Boulevard.  Going North from Westwood Bridge to the Triangle was Wimpole Street.  A small section of this still remains which is also called Bourges Boulevard, Google maps shows it as such running parallel to the dual carraigeway of the same name.  Wimpole Street was mainly upperclass semi-detached houses, but still grubby all the same.  I know its getting away from your station area but there was a lot of railway in Peterborough and a lot of history to go with it.  It is just a shame that I was distracted by beer and beauties at the wrong time to take in the rapidly changing infrastructure at the time