Peterborough North

[great northern]

There aren't that many of these B2s about, so we'll have another look before it disappears to go on shed.

 

...... to be replaced by Golden Eagle, though it will be a while before she heads off homeward.

[Pilgrim in France]

I still don't understand the need for this train. Grimsby-KX parcels, which was rostered for four vehicles as far as Spalding, and then just two from there to KX. Here it is, K3 hauled.

10 K3.JPG

 

Then in comes the Colchester - Edinburgh behind Cambridge B2 Framlingham.

1 1603 1.JPG

 

Very early to doctors surgery this morning, which avoided the usual long wait, but has thrown me out of normal routine. All systems OK though, which is good.

I think the answer as to why the train ran with four vehicles to Spalding and left two there lies in what happened to the two vehicles left at Spalding? i suggest it may be to do with the bulb traffic originating in Spalding. My father was Head Postmaster there and I know that  Spring/early Summer was always far busier than Christmas because of the number of bulb catalogues that went out and the subsequent orders. This was one of the reasons why the DMUs often had a van attached - otherwise there just wasn't enough room. If the vehicles were left at Spalding they could be filled and collected later.

[Mallard60022]

G, do you have the relevant Trains Illustrated or similar that posted  a section (was it Motive Power Miscellany?) referring to your 'week/month'. IIRC it was usually about two or three months later (thus October/November)? I found some quite amazing workings in my searches for SOSJ. I found my backdated copies on line but I know there are some among us that actually still have their original sets. 

I also realise it is not so simple for gang running of your layout due to constraints so here is an alternative. Ask your BR ER 'mates' and anyone else that might be as Idle as myself, to get out their relevant documents (in my case, almost zero I'm afraid) and spend a little time scouring the photo's for the bizarre and unusual. You would only need half a dozen or so to make a lot of difference.

Spending a pleasant day at the (N)RM in their Search Engine Department, having perhaps contacted them beforehand to identify whether they might have relevant info/mags/ books, might make a change, especially if you travel by train, meet some chums and then use the York Tap before trundling south and west at a suitably comfortable speed. (Taxi to or from Grantham or Newark?)

I'd be up for some searching.

 

Duckus Researchus

[great northern]

G, do you have the relevant Trains Illustrated or similar that posted  a section (was it Motive Power Miscellany?) referring to your 'week/month'. IIRC it was usually about two or three months later (thus October/November)? I found some quite amazing workings in my searches for SOSJ. I found my backdated copies on line but I know there are some among us that actually still have their original sets. 

I also realise it is not so simple for gang running of your layout due to constraints so here is an alternative. Ask your BR ER 'mates' and anyone else that might be as Idle as myself, to get out their relevant documents (in my case, almost zero I'm afraid) and spend a little time scouring the photo's for the bizarre and unusual. You would only need half a dozen or so to make a lot of difference.

Spending a pleasant day at the (N)RM in their Search Engine Department, having perhaps contacted them beforehand to identify whether they might have relevant info/mags/ books, might make a change, especially if you travel by train, meet some chums and then use the York Tap before trundling south and west at a suitably comfortable speed. (Taxi to or from Grantham or Newark?)

I'd be up for some searching.

 

Duckus Researchus

I have all the relevant TIs for 1958 Phil, and all the Railway Observers too, and as you say, there are some bizarre and unusual workings mentioned. My memories though tell me that if I saw one unusual working in a day at the lineside, that was it, and so I have avoided most of them. However I now have to acknowledge that if I am in a straitjacket, as I probably am, I am also a volunteer, as it was my own decision to strap it on!

 

I don't want to show things that look "wrong", that's the problem. Even if I can show historical proof that something did occur, it was probably a one off occurence, and the chances of more than one of those happening on a single day are very small indeed. There was also the fact that for a long time there was a very long list of mundane locos and stock which were needed, and I couldn't justify diverting funds to something exotic. That doesn't apply so much now though, in fact if someone could magic up eight really nice Dia 115 Gresleys most of my glaringly obvious needs would be met.

 

Anyway, dear chap, will I have the pleasure of your company next Wednesday with Steve? If so, we can discuss your good ideas in more detail then.

[great northern]

And now we go back to the mundane. Another trip working from South yard brings a J6 along the Down slow to head for New England.

 

On the Up, it is yet more coal rumbling through.

 

The photographer is taking his life into his hands to get this shot, and would no doubt in reality have been removed at once, and had his permit withdrawn, bit it does produce, for me anyway, one of the most convincing and nicely framed images I've managed to get of incoming trains at this end. I suppose if you had a look out, and could be absolutely certain that nothing was approaching on the Down main, you could step back smartly out of the way once the picture was taken, but would such a thing have been permitted, even in far less health and safety conscious days?

[Oldddudders]

How we operate our railway is a very personal matter, it seems to me. Some people want to run continuous circuits of non-stoppers. Others delight in shunting the yard. PN has been predicated upon timetabled services in a specific timeframe - and its substantial investment in locos and rolling stock is geared to that. Clearly many, many hours of study have gone into developing the train-plan. And it works.

 

A US modeller of some repute suggested that if we want authenticity our layouts should be filled with the everyday, not the unusual or exceptional, be it trains or services. PN has struck that balance. I would not want to recommend any significant change to the approach Gilbert has determined works for him.

[Mallard60022]

I have all the relevant TIs for 1958 Phil, and all the Railway Observers too, and as you say, there are some bizarre and unusual workings mentioned. My memories though tell me that if I saw one unusual working in a day at the lineside, that was it, and so I have avoided most of them. However I now have to acknowledge that if I am in a straitjacket, as I probably am, I am also a volunteer, as it was my own decision to strap it on!

 

I don't want to show things that look "wrong", that's the problem. Even if I can show historical proof that something did occur, it was probably a one off occurence, and the chances of more than one of those happening on a single day are very small indeed. There was also the fact that for a long time there was a very long list of mundane locos and stock which were needed, and I couldn't justify diverting funds to something exotic. That doesn't apply so much now though, in fact if someone could magic up eight really nice Dia 115 Gresleys most of my glaringly obvious needs would be met.

 

Anyway, dear chap, will I have the pleasure of your company next Wednesday with Steve? If so, we can discuss your good ideas in more detail then.

When that other, secondary, route to Exeter had problems with flooding (frequently and especially before the Exe works at Exeter) in the early 60s it caused chaos and loads, and I mean loads, of WR stuff was diverted through Seaton Junction, both down and up, within the 12 hours of daylightish, with all sorts of loco's appearing. Did anything from that March, Nene Valley to the west route just not come through PN normally but if the line was knackered west of PE they could/would? What would happen if the main line south of PN failed? Going north they would go via Spalding one presumes so not much difference except for maybe loco changes?

I understand your thoughts. How about spending some time plotting an actual Sunday timetable, but including local Engineering, or do you have that already?

Otherwise, start planning a small shunting layout       

Yo.

[chaz]

How we operate our railway is a very personal matter, it seems to me. Some people want to run continuous circuits of non-stoppers. Others delight in shunting the yard. PN has been predicated upon timetabled services in a specific timeframe - and its substantial investment in locos and rolling stock is geared to that. Clearly many, many hours of study have gone into developing the train-plan. And it works.

 

A US modeller of some repute suggested that if we want authenticity our layouts should be filled with the everyday, not the unusual or exceptional, be it trains or services. PN has struck that balance. I would not want to recommend any significant change to the approach Gilbert has determined works for him.

 

 

GN has worked through a realistic sequence more than once and used it to illustrate his excellent layout and stock. I think he could well need to loosen his straight-jacket a couple of notches to maintain his own interest. 

 

As always Rule One applies - we all run our models to a set of self-imposed rules and bending them is always permitted. I doubt if he will ever run an HST - that's not bending the rules it's smashing them, but why not an occasional football special with some exotic and unlikely motive power? A LCGB special with an early preservation loco?

 

Chaz

[great northern]

When that other, secondary, route to Exeter had problems with flooding (frequently and especially before the Exe works at Exeter) in the early 60s it caused chaos and loads, and I mean loads, of WR stuff was diverted through Seaton Junction, both down and up, within the 12 hours of daylightish, with all sorts of loco's appearing. Did anything from that March, Nene Valley to the west route just not come through PN normally but if the line was knackered west of PE they could/would? What would happen if the main line south of PN failed? Going north they would go via Spalding one presumes so not much difference except for maybe loco changes?

I understand your thoughts. How about spending some time plotting an actual Sunday timetable, but including local Engineering, or do you have that already?

Otherwise, start planning a small shunting layout     

Yo.

 I've thought about a closure of the Midland lines, but I believe the only connection between them and the GN north of the station was the crossover the other side of Spital Bridge. From there, the two ran parallel, but had no other meeting or crossing point. The closure would have to be just before Spital Bridge and end before the spur down to East, or the whole thing becomes impossible, as I think it would have been in practical terms anyway. Main line diversions used the GN &GE down to Cambridge and across to Hitchin, so PN would be avoided altogether. Sunday timetable was dead boring. I remeber when there were Sunday diversions through Lincoln, and we spent ages waiting for something to happen. Shunting plank?

[great northern]

GN has worked through a realistic sequence more than once and used it to illustrate his excellent layout and stock. I think he could well need to loosen his straight-jacket a couple of notches to maintain his own interest. 

 

As always Rule One applies - we all run our models to a set of self-imposed rules and bending them is always permitted. I doubt if he will ever run an HST - that's not bending the rules it's smashing them, but why not an occasional football special with some exotic and unlikely motive power? A LCGB special with an early preservation loco?

 

Chaz

I've spent a lot of time today considering possibilities, and finding most, if not all, unworkable, so I think your concluding suggestions are the kind of things I'll be focusing on. Slight bending is likely to be as far as I will go.

[great northern]

Anyway, that J6 kept heading along the slow line, and thus passed Golden Eagle, temporarily at least.

 

It has no chance of getting across into the yards straight away though, as the Up Afternoon Talisman is due.

[chaz]

How lucky we were that the double chimneys that were fitted to the A4s for good engineering reasons also improved the look of the locomotives. In your pictures No 2 looks so much more modern and purposeful compared with No 23.

 

Chaz

[great northern]

How lucky we were that the double chimneys that were fitted to the A4s for good engineering reasons also improved the look of the locomotives. In your pictures No 2 looks so much more modern and purposeful compared with No 23.

 

Chaz

Yes, full agreement there. I thought the single chimney made the front end look a bit weak, and it certainly didn't aid performance. I'm not so sure about the effect on A3s though. Yes, it transformed performance, but for me it put the front end out of balance.

[great northern]

Mons Meg appears again, on the kind of duty with which she was very familiar. Another Class C parcels, this one destined for Leeds.

 

No photoshopping on this, as I felt the few extraneous bits which appear weren't very distracting.

 

Then we have that Delaval Sidings- Holloway ECS which sometimes produced the rare sight of double headed Pacifics north of York. None of that down this way though, so just another local V2 which has just taken over in New England yards.

Dammit, I just missed getting the signal growing out of the chimney, but the lamps are horrible to make up for that.

[Mallard60022]

Shunting Plank = Spital Bridge Shed; show off those loco's.

A. Wizard

Edited November 15, 2018 by Mallard60022

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

What about a 'Horse box' extra heading to Newmarket ? or Down 'Milk' empties, sure they were running in 1958, or you could have a engine towing another, (minus valve gear) on it's way to 'Donny'...........!

 

manna

[Mallard60022]

Royal Trains were not timetabled for security purposes. There were also extra up boat trains from Newcastle when a ship had to dock there rather than (say) Liverpool, Tilbury or Southampton.

Phil

Edited November 15, 2018 by Mallard60022

[FarrMan]

Gilbert

 

All these images of your layout are wonderfully authentic, except I noticed a few weeks ago that you had views from Spital Bridge from the up side of the line. That struck me as a wee bit strange at the time, as I can not recall ever seeing the line from Spital Bridge on the up side, only the down side. I also recalled high walls either side of the road on the up side, and the only place for spotting was on the down side, more or less over the Midland lines. I have found a picture on

 

https://www.peterboroughimages.co.uk/view-from-spital-bridge-1960s/

 

showing the up side of Spital bridge from the road in the 1960's, which indicates how high the walls were. Your photographer must have been using a long ladder! If you notice, photos taken from the bridge all appear to be from the down side, which is just as I remember it. I crossed Spital Bridge going too and from school for about 5 years, and normally stopped there to see what was going on. Coming back, it was a useful rest, as cycling up the slope seen in the photo was quite steep for Peterborough. Having lived in Applecross, where the main road rises from sea level to 2,000 feet and back to sea level in 10 miles, it does not seam as bad!

 

Incidentally, I never knew what was the other side of those walls, or in the buildings along the  railway side of the road that goes off to the right, but from your model, I assume they were all in engineering dept. use.

 

Thanks again for the pleasure of enjoying these lovely images of your marvelous model.

 

Lloyd

[LNERandBR]

Have been a long time reader of this thread but seldom posted. Therefore first I want to say how inspirational Peterborough North is and you should be proud of what you've worked so hard to achieve.

 

Regarding operating becoming stale and predictable. Whilst my layouts are far smaller in scale I do operate one to a sequence. I'm continually editing this sequence as doing so keeps things fresh. Especially after a two day show.

 

On my other layout I use a random card syestem and I think adding this into your operations could add that unpredictability your looking for. Most of the cards could say 'Train runs as normal' whilst others could say things like 'Booked Loco has failed replace before running' or 'Loco fails onscene. Replace'. You could have cards for any number of possibilitys, just ensure most are 'normal' cards and they are shuffled regularly.

[stewartingram]

 I've thought about a closure of the Midland lines, but I believe the only connection between them and the GN north of the station was the crossover the other side of Spital Bridge. From there, the two ran parallel, but had no other meeting or crossing point. The closure would have to be just before Spital Bridge and end before the spur down to East, or the whole thing becomes impossible, as I think it would have been in practical terms anyway. Main line diversions used the GN &GE down to Cambridge and across to Hitchin, so PN would be avoided altogether. Sunday timetable was dead boring. I remeber when there were Sunday diversions through Lincoln, and we spent ages waiting for something to happen. Shunting plank?

If I've got this right, you are saying diversions went via Spalding-March-Ely-Cambridge to Hitchin?

They also went PN-PE-March-Cambridge**-Hitchin.

 

**The expected route would be March-Ely-Cambridge, as I believe there were bridge weight restrictions, often quoted as a reason for not going March-St.Ives-Cambridge.

However, when I lived in Cambridge my mate lived at Histon (1st station on the Loop), and after a day trainspotting in Cambridge whilst a diversion was on, cycled home; he was held at Histon LC for a Deltic to go past!. Next day (Sunday) we met up for more diversions, and others in the "gang" came out with other locos they had seen (on various days) on diversions - so they did go that way!

 

Stewart

Edited November 16, 2018 by stewartingram

[great northern]

Gilbert

 

All these images of your layout are wonderfully authentic, except I noticed a few weeks ago that you had views from Spital Bridge from the up side of the line. That struck me as a wee bit strange at the time, as I can not recall ever seeing the line from Spital Bridge on the up side, only the down side. I also recalled high walls either side of the road on the up side, and the only place for spotting was on the down side, more or less over the Midland lines. I have found a picture on

 

https://www.peterboroughimages.co.uk/view-from-spital-bridge-1960s/

 

showing the up side of Spital bridge from the road in the 1960's, which indicates how high the walls were. Your photographer must have been using a long ladder! If you notice, photos taken from the bridge all appear to be from the down side, which is just as I remember it. I crossed Spital Bridge going too and from school for about 5 years, and normally stopped there to see what was going on. Coming back, it was a useful rest, as cycling up the slope seen in the photo was quite steep for Peterborough. Having lived in Applecross, where the main road rises from sea level to 2,000 feet and back to sea level in 10 miles, it does not seam as bad!

 

Incidentally, I never knew what was the other side of those walls, or in the buildings along the  railway side of the road that goes off to the right, but from your model, I assume they were all in engineering dept. use.

 

Thanks again for the pleasure of enjoying these lovely images of your marvelous model.

 

Lloyd

  I normally take pictures from the down side Lloyd, difficult though it is since the latest "improvements". I agree that all pictures seem to have been taken from that side, but I wasn't sure why. Now I know!  I think I was in one of my "I wonder what I get if I plonk the camera here" moods when I strayed to the up, but I won't do it again.

[great northern]

If I've got this right, you are saying diversions went via Splading-March-Ely-Cambridge to Hitchin?

They also went PN-PE-March-Cambridge**-Hitchin.

 

**The expected route would be March-Ely-Cambridge, as I believe there were bridge weight restrictions, often quoted as a reason for not going March-St.Ives-Cambridge.

However, when I lived in Cambridge my mate lived at Histon (1st station on the Loop), and after a day trainspotting in Cambridge whilst a diversion was on, cycled home; he was held at Histon LC for a Deltic to go past!. Next day (Sunday) we met up for more diversions, and others in the "gang" came out with other locos they had seen (on various days) on diversions - so they did go that way!

 

Stewart

Oh dear, more :senile:.  I've got photos of Pacifics coming under the Nene bridges and into East, but I forgot all about them. Thanks for putting me right Stewart.

[great northern]

Moped golf today. Putt, putt, putt and occasionally another putt. Some imprecations were uttered, and even a bit of inoffensive turf kicked. Not on the green, I hasten to add.

 

Shall we have a look through the arch?

 

KX A3 Tracery is coming the other way, heading the FO formation of the 8.10 Newcastle, which is the only one I can replicate.

 

 

[great northern]

Have been a long time reader of this thread but seldom posted. Therefore first I want to say how inspirational Peterborough North is and you should be proud of what you've worked so hard to achieve.

 

Regarding operating becoming stale and predictable. Whilst my layouts are far smaller in scale I do operate one to a sequence. I'm continually editing this sequence as doing so keeps things fresh. Especially after a two day show.

 

On my other layout I use a random card syestem and I think adding this into your operations could add that unpredictability your looking for. Most of the cards could say 'Train runs as normal' whilst others could say things like 'Booked Loco has failed replace before running' or 'Loco fails onscene. Replace'. You could have cards for any number of possibilitys, just ensure most are 'normal' cards and they are shuffled regularly.

Thanks. Another good one for the list of possibles. Somehow I now have more Pacifics than I need for normal duties. I wonder how that happened? The occasional failure would give some of them a run.

[great northern]

Tracery has a light load tonight, and so can stop before the dodgy platform signal.

Another A3 then arrives with the last Up Grantham local. The Grantham shedmaster has not been reading his transfer orders. Had he done so he would have noted that he should have transferred 60048 to 34A back in June. That must now be done. There are rumours that some other allocation errors have been discovered too.