Class 67001 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry for asking again if this has already been covered but what ballast do you use Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not really being in the loop regarding UK based steam layouts, where can I find out more about 'Retford'? I've seen a few pics on the net, but nothing very much. Is it featured in one of those old fashioned paper based artefacts, or is it just one of those legendary layouts that only a few lucky souls get to see in the flesh? I seem to recall Mr Jackson from the early 90s MRJs, Dunwich was it? I always enjoyed those articles as there seemed to be something very authentic about it, from the photos at least. Then MRJ started having 8 page spreads on wagon compensation without photos and I lost interest. I have had several conversations with Roy Jackson about photographs that appeared of High Dyke in the other Magazine called Model Railways in about 1996 (at a Guess).This was always one of my favourites.Also about Dunwich & Retford. Lets not forget the part played in all these layouts by John Phillips and Geoff Kent of Blakeny fame. In all four great layouts or in fact Models of a real railway.Retford has in addition called upon the skills of several other people to numerouis to mention.It has been featured in several issues of MRJ and I will try to obtain the dates for those who are interested. To know Roy is to love him,I think they threw away the mould after they made Roy and my opinion on that is staying firmly in my head. For people who don't have the privelige of knowing Roy,please don't think he takes himself too seriously,one only had to see the Red Rat bombing around on High Dyke or see it on Retford to realise thats not the case.To see John Phillips Prototype Deltic travelling at over a scale TON is testiment to the skills that have gone into the tracklaying on these layouts and the skill that John has in building from a Lima Deltic a double motored EM Gauge loco to stay on the track at such speed with at least a dozen coaches on is also testiment to his skills. Regards,Derek. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 In all four great layouts or in fact Models of a real railway.Retford has in addition called upon the skills of several other people to numerouis to mention.It has been featured in several issues of MRJ and I will try to obtain the dates for those who are interested. Regards,Derek. Hi Derek Retford has appeared in the MRJ Issues 101,118,141,143,171 and 179 according to the MRJ index on the net, it has also been in BRM, but, not sure of the date and I'm in work at the moment so I can't check. I saw Retford at an ExpoEM some years ago, it, along with Biggleswade, Stoke Summit, Little Bytham and of course Gilbert's Peterborough are the layouts responsible for my obsession with the ECML despite coming from a family steeped in the GWR tradition. Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 23, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry for asking again if this has already been covered but what ballast do you use Thanks in advance Track and ballasting was all done professionally by Norman Saunders of Just Tracks, and I'm afraid he hasn't let me in on his ballasting methods. Trade secret maybe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 ...Biggleswade, Stoke Summit, Little Bytham and of course Gilbert's Peterborough... Is any body building High Dyke? I always thought that would be an interesting location. No passenger station, but an interesting yard to serve the ironstone branch. Or have Roy et al already done that? I'm beginning to feel I've missed out on something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Or have Roy et al already done that? I'm beginning to feel I've missed out on something I think they did , before they did Dunwich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 23, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2012 Or have Roy et al already done that? I'm beginning to feel I've missed out on something I think they did , before they did Dunwich That's correct. High Dyke was the first one, then Dunwich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 23, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2012 OK, it looks like we can let you off - there must have been some cancellations on the Highdyke ore workings! The RCTS Green Book records that the whole class was shared between Doncaster, Retford and Grantham by the end of 1955, so in the normal course of things they would have been rare beasts south of New England after then, I think. However, the same publication refers to a Retford and a Doncaster engine being extensively used on New England - Ferme Park workings in Autumn 1955. Then there is always the final justification: imagine that Retford had turned an O2 off light to Worksop for a routine coal train to New England, but that when it got 'wired on' at departure, it was found that all the traffic was for Ferme Park. Any controller worth his salt would look to 'reman' such a train after a water and C&W stop at New England and give the incoming Retford men some unbalanced engine for their return empties. And if the Retford engine had failed on the up road at Grantham, a 35B O2 would have been the only thing big enough to pull the train. All very convoluted I know, but just the thing that used to happen (in diesel days from personal experience and in steam days by repute). Half the fun of using improbable engines comes from thinking up plausible railwaylike reasons for their use! Happy operating Andy Hi Andy, and thanks for that. Can you think of any reason why 02's should be operating south of Peterborough then? As i say I have seen at least two photos of locos standing on the Down slow presumably waiting for the road to the yards. They are Grantham engines too. I also have a photo said to be in 1957 again of a Grantham engine, which is claimed to be an up iron ore train approaching Peterborough. It certainly looks like an iron ore working, the first three wagons are hoppers, but I have always understood that the stone traffic flow was Northbound only. The countryside behind the loco is nondescript, could be anywhere, but it's from AC Ingram's collection which usually means Vic Fincham, and his work all seems to have been in the immediate area of the two stations. Is it possible that New England did officially borrow 02's from Grantham if they were short of power? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyrush Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I know of no regular flow of ore southbound from Highdyke, there has been nothing in any of the WTT's I've looked at, and the question would arise - where would iron ore be destined for in that direction? As New England was the district shed before 1958, maybe they carried out some of the heavier repairs for their sub shed of Grantham and certainly there would then be occasions when they would 'borrow' them off repairs. Fluctuations in the ore traffic could also render some of the 35B O2's temporarily surplus and 35A would then have call on them. These fluctuations continued into diesel days, when all of a sudden Immingham tablet catching 31's used to start appearing up the Joint Line at Whitemoor, with strict instructions not to nick them! Doncaster and Retford O2's were diagrammed to work to New England and the usual cut and thrust of coal working would ensure that they failed to make their booked back workings sometimes, and got used on Ferme Park jobs on an out and home basis until they could be slotted back into appropriate workings homeward. The same sort of situation would apply to WD's from Doncaster, Colwick and Langwith Junction and O4's from the latter two sheds as well as Mexborough (off trains from Wath), all of which were booked to work to New England at some stages of the 1950's. So I reckon all you've got to do is pick one of those scenarios and challenge anybody to prove you wrong! You can tell that I'm campaigning for more mineral trains, can't you...? Regards Andy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) That's correct. High Dyke was the first one, then Dunwich. Hi I Think there was one other layout, Gainsborough Central, prior to High Dyke. it is mentioned in a photo caption in one of the Retford articles in MRJ, Incidentally High Dyke has featured in MRJ too, Issue 180. Ian Edited January 24, 2012 by ianwales 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 24, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi Andy, and thanks once again. You've certainly convinced me! I'd love to have some more mineral trains, well, goods trains generally, but I've nowhere to store them. Engines to haul mineral trains though? ........That is now an entirely different matter. How many varieties of 04 were there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Cough cough....O4/8....cough cough..... Edited January 24, 2012 by Tom F 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Cough cough....O4/8....cough cough..... Now Gilbert, are you sure I can't tempt you with one of these? One part-finished boiler and cab still sat here, just so you know....... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 24, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2012 Now Gilbert, are you sure I can't tempt you with one of these? One part-finished boiler and cab still sat here, just so you know....... Just one more wafer thin mint eh? Two of you ganging up on me as well! Maybe as a longer term project........ Of course there is this 04/5 of Bill Bedford's too...... Just checked, and there were only two of those left, but both at Mexborough. Have you two co-opted andyrush into the conspiracy now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I think Bill's going to do a further 04 variants. Though Tim's or is it Tom's is excellent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I think Bill's going to do a further 04 variants. Though Tim's or is it Tom's is excellent! Tom's model, but I did the work on it Highly powerful too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) And certainly well made too!! Not ganging up on you at all Guv...honest!! Edited January 24, 2012 by Tom F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gresley Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And certainly well made too!! Not ganging up on you at all Guv...honest!! Hi Gilbert, Need any help ? They're certainly putting the pressure on you. Stuart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just one more wafer thin mint eh? Two of you ganging up on me as well! Maybe as a longer term project........ Of course there is this 04/5 of Bill Bedford's too...... Just checked, and there were only two of those left, but both at Mexborough. Have you two co-opted andyrush into the conspiracy now? Hi Gilbert What were the 2 that were left at Mexborough? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've just finished another very satisfying operating session, and in fact finished the sequence. There is no doubt that working through things methodically and preferably calmly does give results, as there were far fewer glitches and fallings off than the first time round. Anyway, here are two or three of the late evening trains. Another of Spital Bridge's nearly life expired D16's. This one heads the last Peterborough East - Leicester local of the day. And here is Immingham's B1 Mayflower returning from the capital with the second Down Cleethorpes express, while in Platform 4 the stock for the 8.35pm to Melton Constable awaits its loco. She's not had the right away yet, so the photographer is reasonably safe, provided he isn't standing on the Up main of course. Another chance to admire Tim's other magnum opus. Sun Castle has what is described in the WTT as a Dundee - Kings Cross train. I didn't know there were any of those. This on the other hand is likely to be the photographer's last act on earth, unless he is extremely nimble! Hi Gilbert What time is that Dundee-KX through Peterborough? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyrush Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi Gilbert, Need any help ? They're certainly putting the pressure on you. Stuart Just trying to redress the balance between the shiny (and not so shiny) green things and the dirty black ones that earned the revenue! Now, let's see, 63653 of Frodingham looking suspiciously clean, having been ex works since March 1957. OK, hows this - it worked up the East Lincs to Whitemoor several days before and failed there. Because March was one of the few depots (the only one?) to clean freight locos the fitters there were unused to working on filthy engines so it got cleaned. It was declared available for traffic at 2.0am with no immediate vacant slot to get it home and no identifiable men to take it light. So the HQ engine controller ordered it to New England to help out with an out and home turn to Ferme Park. So it worked the 5.0am Whitemoor Up Yard to Peterborough Bridge Sidings and then went light to 35A. And here it is on 1135 up with a couple of cattle wagons and a spare brake to be detached at Biggleswade and much later in the day on 1206 down mineral empties with a payment brake van on the engine. No doubt it wound find its way on to a New England - Doncaster Decoy empties later the same night (hopefully with headlamp(s) by then) So you CAN have one, Gilbert! Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Now, let's see, 63653 of Frodingham looking suspiciously clean, having been ex works since March 1957. Andy, I should have added that this model is portrayed in 1950 condition for Tom's layout, though it is still awaiting weathering mind. My fault! I haven't a clue what condition it'd have been in for 1957/8 though. So you CAN have one, Gilbert! Seconded! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Seconded! Thirded! ( I do fear Gilbert is going to blow a safety valve! ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 There's a description in Peter Grafton's book on Edward Thompson (surprise surprise, Simon using that particular volume blah blah blah! ) about Thompson providing hoses at Doncaster in 1943 for the washing down of frames of engines that were in for overhaul, on the insistence of a particularly upper class lady friend (and she was a Lady. Haven't got the book to hand so can't remember which one!). Surely hosing down was standard across the range of components? Sounds like a bit of a tale Simon. Workshops were by the early 1920s already well organised - I'd doubt the thought of a using a hose would have come as any great novelty. A mixture of process were used (at least in BR days) of power washing i.e steam cleaning - with detergents for the less grimy deposits and larger area's however for anything up to the size of a bogie, great use was made of soaking complete components in a heated caustic solution - in large baths, followed by thourough rinsing in fresh water - little if any grime could survive that! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 24, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi Gilbert, Need any help ? They're certainly putting the pressure on you. Stuart I think they've got me surrounded Stuart. Have you seen the 7th cavalry anywhere? Actually, I can be quite obstinate if too much pressure is applied........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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